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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: gallenwalsh on November 19, 2009, 10:43:29 PM

Title: Ten Commandments NOT spiritual ?
Post by: gallenwalsh on November 19, 2009, 10:43:29 PM

I came across this once while looking through the web site and cannot find it again. It was along with a few other things on Ray's list of physical things that do not profit, like fasting, the bread and wine. Could someone elaborate. I just thought, that one , The ten Commandments, was suprising to fall under that list of not being spiritual. I think I may be on to something but I need verification. Also, how does the Church,The Bride,The mother of us all, New Jerusalem,  , GOD the Father, Jesus, and the elect, and the rest of humanity all fit together?

Title: Re: Ten Commandments NOT spiritual ?
Post by: mharrell08 on November 20, 2009, 12:10:13 AM

Quote from: gallenwalsh on November 19, 2009, 10:43:29 PM

I came across this once while looking through the web site and cannot find it again. It was along with a few other things on Ray's list of physical things that do not profit, like fasting, the bread and wine. Could someone elaborate. I just thought, that one , The ten Commandments, was suprising to fall under that list of not being spiritual. I think I may be on to something but I need verification.

Excerpt from Lake of Fire series Part 15-A (http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html):

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE SPIRITUAL

It is believed by most that the Ten Commandments, if followed by everyone, would eliminate all of the problems of the world. Did you know that it is possible to keep ALL of the ten commandments without having the spirit of God or without being spiritually converted? 'Tis true. Here are the commandments:

   1. You shall have none other gods before Me,
   2. You shall not make you any graven image…,"
   3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain…,"
   4. Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it…,"
   5. Honor your father and your mother…,"
   6. You shall not kill [murder],
   7. Neither shall you commit adultery,
   8. Neither shall you steal
   9. Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor,
  10. Neither shall you covet…

Yes, even unaided by the Holy Spirit of God it is possible to keep these commandments of God. And the proof of this is simple: The penalty for breaking any of these commandments was death, and yet, most in Israel were not stoned to death for breaking these commandments. All of these commandments are referred to as "carnal commandments" in the New Testament (Heb. 7:16). They do not require a converted spiritual heart to keep and obey.

There was ONE commandment, however, that was of a spiritual nature. It had to do with the desires and inclination of the heart. It was the 10th commandment:

    "Neither shall you desire [covet] your neighbor’s wife… house… field… manservant… maidservant… ox… a@@… or any thing that is your neighbor’s" (Deut. 5:7-21).

However, was anyone ever stoned in ancient Israel for coveting any thing that belonged to his neighbor? No. Never. One could "covet" anything he wanted all day long, just so long as he didn’t break any of the other nine commandments!

One could "covet" his neighbor’s wife, just as long as he didn’t commit adultery with her—for that he would be stoned to death.

One could "covet" his neighbor’s ox, just so long as he didn’t steal it—for that he would be stoned to death.

Oh "coveting" was a sin all right, but since it cannot be detected by man unless it eventuates into stealing or the like, no penalty was enforced on such an one. However, to Paul, it was this commandment that proved to him that his heart was not right with God even though he performed all the visible and outward duties of the law:

    "…for I had not known [Gk: ‘would not have known’] lust, except the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet" (Rom. 7:7).

So lusting and coveting that which is not legal, is a sin, but it carried no penalty in Ancient Israel. But before a man ever steals, or ever commits adultery with another man’s wife, he first covets, and that is a sin and the precursor to additional sins. But is it man's will that does the coveting? Can man's will, will NOT to covet? Is man's "will" the problem? No, no, it is NOT.

Quote from: gallenwalsh on November 19, 2009, 10:43:29 PM

Also, how does the Church,The Bride,The mother of us all, New Jerusalem,  , GOD the Father, Jesus, and the elect, and the rest of humanity all fit together?

Gallenwalsh,

No one can fit the answer to these in one thread...it would be wise to read through Ray's teachings, email replies, & bible study/conferences. If you take some time to do that, all of these will be answered, taught from the scriptures.


Hope this helps,

Marques

Title: Re: Ten Commandments NOT spiritual ?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on November 20, 2009, 12:22:29 AM

What Ray was referring to--and I hope somebody can locate the particular section--was that physical copies of the 10 commandments, the literal, physical "letter of the law", are not spiritual.  As best I remember, he used that in the context of those 'grieving' that their 'god' had been taken away when copies of the 10 commandments were removed from buildings.  

That doesn't mean that the law itself, written in our hearts, is not spiritual.  On the contrary:

Rom 7:14  ...For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Nevertheless,

Gal 5:1-5  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.  Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

True circumcision is spiritual as well.  As are Baptism, the Wine and Bread, etc. etc. etc.  It's all the same thing, ultimately.

The rest of your question I can't begin to tackle.  Maybe you can simplifiy it?  Tell us what you have 'been taught'?




 

  

Title: Re: Ten Commandments NOT spiritual ?
Post by: Kat on November 20, 2009, 12:58:45 AM

Hi Gallenwalsh,

This email may have been what you were referring to.  The Ten Commandments were a part of the old covenant, we are now under the new covenant which is a spiritual law and means we must go far beyond the old covenant, which was the letter of the law. 

http://bible-truths.com/email8.htm ----------

You are not distinguishing between things that differ as the Scriptures admonish us.

It seems hardly anyone knows that "fulfill means." Jesus said that he "fulfilled" the LAW, yet it is taught today in the Church that it YET needs to be fulfilled BY US. What is that?  I have never heard a minister yet put the parts of Christ declaration together:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law OR THE PROPHETS: I am not come to destroy, [the law AND THE PROPHETS], but to fulfill [the law AND THE PROPHETS]" (Matt. 5:17).

Now then, did Jesus Christ "fulfill" all of the prophecies concerning Him? Well if He did, then does there REMAIN any that He DID NOT FULFILL? Then why doesn't anyone, it seems, believe that He also and in the very same way fulfilled "the law?"

We are now under a NEW COVENANT [and Hebrews 8 tells us that this NEW covenant is NOT IN ACCORD with the OLD covenant.

The Pharisees kept the old testament law of Moses with its ten commandments. But Jesus said that WE, Believers, must FAR EXCEED the righteousness of the Pharisees. Jesus gave us NEW COMMANDMENTS that are far superior to the old law. Christ's laws are SPIRITUAL laws. The Old Covenant which really IS "the ten commandments" (See Deut. 4:13) was an administration of DEATH. The laws were of the letter (death) not of the spirit (life). See II Cor. 3.

Under the Old Covenant you were to HATE YOUR ENEMIES. Under the New we are to LOVE OUR ENEMIES. Love your enemies is not a slight modification of hating your enemies.  Not lusting after a woman is not a slight modification of not committing physical intercourse with a married woman. NOT SWEARING is not a slight modification of swearing!  Etc. Can you see this? Under the old covenant one was to love his neighbor as himself. Under the new we are to esteem our neighbor HIGHER than ourselves. Do you see the difference?

Things that were "holy" and have run their course, are NO LONGER Holy. All Israel was Holy. Physical Israel is no longer holy. Sacrifices were HOLY unto the Lord; they no longer are. Tithing was just as specific a law as sacrificing. Tithes were of farm products NOT MONEY. It was paid to the Levites. There are no Levites today. It was kept in storehouses. There are no storehouses today. Go to the nominal Christian church and as for food from their storehouse to feed some poor that you are aware of. They will in all probability TURN YOU AWAY, even though their bank accounts are filled with MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars, often times. There is NO TEMPLE at which the Levites and Priests officiate today. And if you liken the Church today as God's nation of priests as Peter tells us, then we ALL should be receiving tithes, NOT PAYING TITHES!

Byron, Paul NEVER, EVER taught, or collected tithes from the Gentile congregations. Can you not see that?  Why did he work with his own hands if he were collecting millions and millions and millions from the HUNDREDS of congregations he founded? Seriously, these are questions that need answering. Paul never taught tithing and he never collected tithes, so why should anyone else who claims to be a minister of Jesus Christ??

Now it is not wrong to support a church or pay a salary to a pastor, but it cannot be in the form of MONEY FROM A VOID LAW OF PRODUCE TITHING.

You are right, we should not CONTINUE TO SIN, and teaching and collecting tithe money from believers IS A GROSS SIN!!!

God be with you,

Ray