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Is there a difference between never dying, living for ever, ( eternity ) and Ionian life ?

Quote from: gallenwalsh on May 03, 2010, 05:35:58 PM
Is there a difference between never dying, living for ever, ( eternity ) and Ionian life ?

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2582.msg19641.html#msg19641):

Dear Kenny:
"Eternal" is a word that came from the Latin "eternus" or "eternum" and from "avum" which ultimately came from "aion" of the Greek.  And so it is a word that NEVER meant endless. It is a word that was taught over centuries to mean "endless," when in fact the word and its roots never meant any such thing.  Eternal means endless: without beginning and without end.  Immortality has nothing to do with time, as it means "death-less-ness."  Unable to ever die.
God be with you,
Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2332.msg18465.html#msg18465):

It's a CROCK, Tommy.  No most intelligent universalists do NOT believe that
the first "eionios" in Matt. 25:46 means an age that ends while the second use
of "aionios" really does mean "eternal." That is nonsense, but these guys can't
argue against Universal Reconciliation honestly and Scripturally, and so
they lie.

NOWHERE is "eternal" life promised in the Scriptures, as there is no such word
in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts (see my paper:  "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural?")
We are promised "eonian life," "age-abiding life," which lasts as long as the reward
of reigning with Christ in the Kingdom of God lasts--"UNTIL He [Jesus] has put all
enemies under His feet (I Cor. 15:24-25).  Do we then all DIE?  No. And why not, as
"eonian" life comes to an end with the end of the eons?  Because we have something
else that IS SCRIPTURAL--"immortality" which means death-less-ness (I Cor. 15:53).

And so, likewise, I can take apart all of his unscriptural nonsense and heresy by using
the Scriptures, not man-made foolishness.
God be with you,
Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1205.msg10687.html#msg10687):

Dear Christopher:

    I get thousands of emails just as confusing as yours.  I have never taught that we will not live with God "without end."  Where did I ever say such and unscriptural thing?  I have said that "aion/aionios" does not MEAN without end.  We DO live "forever," even though the Scriptures never use that word. We live "forever" (without end), not because the Scriptures USE THOSE WORDS, but because God gives us "immortality," and immortality means "death-less-ness."  When we have immortality, we will never ever die. But the WORD "immortality" does not MEAN  "forever," or "eternal." Nowhere in Scripture does God promise us "forever life" or "eternal life."  There is no such Scripture.  We are promised "eonian life."  When the eons end, however, we do not die or cease to exist. Why? Because we have IMMORTALITY.

    God be with you

    Ray 


Hope this helps,

Marques

Hi gallenwalsh,

Here is another email that might help with your question.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm --------------

Matt. 25:46, NWT:

"And these will depart into EVERLASTING CUTTING-OFF, but the righteous ones into EVERLASTING LIFE."

This translation is very similar to the KJV:

"And these shall go away unto EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL."

The only real different in the NWT's translation of the compound, "cutting- off" instead of "punishment."

Now then, let's check the Emphatic Diaglott:

"And these shall go forth to the AIONIAN CUTTNG OFF; but the righteous to AIONIAN LIFE."

This is a MUCH improvement over the King James and the NWT. The Greek word "aionios" or "aionion" never EVER means "everlasting" or "eternal." NEVER. For proof of this read the first ten pages of my letter to John Hagee in the paper "EXPOSING THOSE WHO CONTRADICT" on my site.

The Watch Tower's Diaglott has this word translated CORRECTLY--it is "aionian" or "eonian" or (if we must use a compound, "age-lasting" or "age- abiding").
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The reason most translations do not translate this verse in Matt. 25:46 correctly is not because it is that difficult to translate; it is not. It is because of the RELIGIOUS BIAS of the translators. And so the King James makes it appear that people will be "PUNISHED [tortured for eternity in fire) and the NWT make it appear as though it is "eternal," however, not eternal conscious suffering, but rather eternal cutting-off from God or literally, eternal annihilation. BOTH ARE DEAD WRONG!

This verse should be translated as follows:

"And these shall be coming away into CHASTENING EONIAN, yet the just into LIFE EONIAN."

And that is the meaning of the Greek words in this verse. It's just that theologians cannot then UNDERSTAND this verse. It doesn't fit the preconceived ideas of the Christians, nor does it fit the preconceived ideas of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The argument on both sides goes like this: How can we have "ETERNAL life" if it is the same period of time that the wicked are chastised, if that chastisement COMES TO AN END?

The answer is quite simple and clear, Rod, if we will but listen to the Scriptures carefully. The Scriptures NOWHERE promise believers "everlasting or eternal life." WHAT? That sounds like blasphemy AND HERESY, doesn't it?

What the Scriptures do promise believers is: (1) Aionian, eonian, or age- abiding, life, AND (2) IMMORTALITY and INCORRUPTION. Immortality has nothing to do with TIME. Immortality does not mean "everlasting" or "eternal" or any other word or combination of words denoting ENDLESS TIME. Immortality mean DEATH=LESS=NESS. Incapable of dying. NEVER to die. So it will be "everlasting," but the WORD DESCRIBING IT DOES NOT MEAN EVERLASTING.

And so the two statements of Matt. 25:46 are in perfect harmony with one another, even though NEITHER ONE IS SPEAKING OF ETERNAL OR ENDLESS TIME!

Jesus promised "eonian life" to those who "OVERCOME." They are to rule WITH Christ as the manifest SONS OF GOD (The BODY of Christ), who will be the "saviours" promised back in Hosea, that will be instrumental in bringing God's judgments to all the inhabitants of this earth
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mercy, peace amd love
Kat