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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: mavis92379 on March 02, 2012, 10:04:16 AM
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I was looking for some clarification to this verse :
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
Paul starts the epistle with this point :
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Paul is correcting an error going on in the church with but than he tells them
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
I really dont understand what hes saying here at all !!!
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I was looking for some clarification to this verse :
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
Paul starts the epistle with this point :
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Paul is correcting an error going on in the church with but than he tells them
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
I really dont understand what hes saying here at all !!!
Meaning you don't need to depend on any one person ("whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas") because we receive all things from Christ (in due time), who receives all things from the Father.
Hope this helps,
Marques
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Hi Mavis,
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
All that Paul mentioned here are things that pertain to our life in this world, even death and the things to come, much like what he said in Rom 8.
Rom 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Paul is talking to believers and he is telling them they do not need to worry or argue over these things, as Christ is in control and "all things work together for good to those who love God."
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
So we don't need to get so caught up in or stumbled by the physical, so that we lose site of the spiritual. It is Christ we are unitied in and these physical things should not become too much of a distraction now, becasue ultimately the elect will rule over all these things with Christ.
1Co 3:23 And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Actually, It means that we ALL will LIVE BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD. FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION, ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL, THINGS ARE OURS.
Longhorn
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Whatever the he..ck that means, Longhorn. Care to elaborate?
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Meaning you don't need to depend on any one person ("whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas") because we receive all things from Christ (in due time), who receives all things from the Father.
I especially like this third chapter of 1 Corinthians because it really put into perspective how we should be maturing in our understanding as we go forward in this "race" for life.
The scripture prior to the one that was in question states:
1Cor. 3:21 - "So then, let no one be boasting in men, for all things are yours." (REB)
This is the main point of this lesson. Those who are of the Elect will receive "all things" from Christ and will mature to the point of understanding that they should not be elevating any man in the process. It is through Christ that we receive all that is necessary to complete this spiritual journey. Man is used in this process, but a man is not the source of our knowledge and understanding.
There is a lot of "meat" in this chapter and I encouage everyone to read and meditate on it. :)
René
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But men are so wonderful! ;D
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But men are so wonderful! ;D
Very true, of course, and only those of us who aren't conceited!! 8)
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Men are wonder-ful?
full of something, that's for sure.
most men are just full of them-selves.
Just ask my darling wife.... (who just made a batch of chocolate cup cakes)
Anyway thanks Gina
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Man shall not live by bread alone, but (BY) (Live out) EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Matt 4:4. This is an evil in all that is done under the sun. That one thing ( eveil experience God has given to the sons of men to humble them Ecc 1:13) happens to ALL. Ecc 9:3. Jesus himself said we All will live by (out) every word from Genesis to Revelation and not only that but blessed is he who Reads, Hears, and KEEPS ( live out) the words. We are all at our appointed time will experience every single word in scripture. We are Josephs brothers before we are Joseph. We are sons of satan before we are Christs Christ Acts 4:26.
We are Saul before we are Paul. The " All Things are Ours " are every word of Christ written theirin which we ALL will live out ( experience ) either in this age, or the next.
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We are all at our appointed time will experience every single word in scripture.
This sounds eerily similar to a false teaching that at one point tried to circulate on BT and the forum. The problem with this premise is that there are scriptures where we are specifically told to not 'partake of', specifically the wrath of God:
1 Thes 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
1 Thes 1:9-10 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Rom 2:5-8 ...the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal (eonian) life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Eph 5:6-7 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Rom 9:22-23 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting (eonian) life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Christ's words include wrath upon the disobedient, but just because He spoke of God's wrath does not mean we experience it.
Marques
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So Marques, You are saying that not All have been " Disobedient ". Please read Romans 11:32. Marques, you sound like the words of Christ offend you, and like so many, you would like to be Raptured away from any and all " Much Tribulation " required of the Saints.
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So Marques, You are saying that not All have been " Disobedient ". Please read Romans 11:32. Marques, you sound like the words of Christ offend you, and like so many, you would like to be Raptured away from any and all " Much Tribulation " required of the Saints.
Much tribulation is different from God's wrath. Here is the scripture you referenced from Romans 11:
Rom 11:30-32 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
Notice Paul says 'as we were once disobedient to God', not something that we continue to practice. We, as God's Elect, go through much tribulation [Acts 14:22], chastisement [Heb 12:6], & persecution [John 15:20]...but never God's wrath [1 Thes 5:9, Rom 5:9].
Marques
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Thanks, Marques. You summed that up quite well. I'd like to just add one more thing to what's already been said:
From the Mobile Conference in 2009:
(Notes)
Is Romans 1:18 speaking of God’s Elect? Or is this speaking of those who, “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,” (Romans 1:22). The Concordant says, “they became stupid.”
In Ephesians 5 it talks about the “children of disobedience.”
Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
v. 7 Be not you therefore partakers with them.
So, if the wrath of God is poured out on the children of disobedience, Paul says, don’t you be one of them. Then that has to mean that there are those that don’t have to be one of them. “Don’t YOU be a partaker with them.” If God’s Elect are still “the children of disobedience,” then it is impossible and foolish on Paul’s part to admonish us to “BE NOT ye therefore partakers with THEM.”[/color]
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.msg99635.html#msg99635 (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.msg99635.html#msg99635)
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But men are so wonderful! ;D
Very true, of course, and only those FEW of us who aren't conceited!! 8)
There, now isn't that better? hehe
I know that it's never a good idea to stroke a man's ego, per Ray's Destiny of Women study. So, I've decided to stop doing that, starting today. ;D
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Longhorn,
That would also necessarily mean that we will all (each and every one of us who have ever lived) create the heavens and earth, and Satan, and all that God said He did. haha, I don't think so.
Man shall not live by bread alone, but (BY) (Live out) EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Matt 4:4. This is an evil in all that is done under the sun. That one thing ( eveil experience God has given to the sons of men to humble them Ecc 1:13) happens to ALL. Ecc 9:3. Jesus himself said we All will live by (out) every word from Genesis to Revelation and not only that but blessed is he who Reads, Hears, and KEEPS ( live out) the words. We are all at our appointed time will experience every single word in scripture. We are Josephs brothers before we are Joseph. We are sons of satan before we are Christs Christ Acts 4:26.
We are Saul before we are Paul. The " All Things are Ours " are every word of Christ written theirin which we ALL will live out ( experience ) either in this age, or the next.
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The scriptures were very clear that the wrath of God is on the unbelievers and children of disobience only-
scriptures said the saints has already been delivered from the wrath to come. Notice the word Delivered, it's past tense, It's already done. He already delivered the ones who overcame the world from the wrath to come. Because the mind of Christ in you is what frees you from the wrath of God. It is the fullness of God in you that delivered you. You are now Free because you have the fullness of God in you. The spirit of God possess the attributes of Joy, gentleness, mercy, kindness, slow to anger self control, etc. according to scriptures. The world has no control over them anymore. They have been delivered.
the wrath of God is only on the unbelievers and children of disobience because they have not overcame yet. They do not carry God's fullness in them. It is only done through the transformation of your mind. scriptures is very clear that tribulations and wrath of God is not the same thing. It's like experiencing the consequences of not having the spirit of God in them, wrath produces wrath until you possess the spirit of God in you. For those who have been delivered from wrath, has the mind of Christ in them.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
King James Version (KJV)
10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
It's like God will chasten the rest of children of disobience till they see the beauty of righteousness. Till the light bulb comes on for the rest of them. Sometimes they need more perceived "evil" to finally wake up. Those who already is there is already free. Those who hasn't seen is still in prison. Some just need more of the wrath of God. It's like some children need less wrath, some need more wrath to be transformed.
Wrath of God has no control over you once you have the fullness of God in you.
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Beautiful, Denise!
1 Thessalonians 1:10
King James Version (KJV)
10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
p.s. love the pic
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The LOF is really gonna be an eye opener for some.
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Yes, it will. And that's good! Besides, Ray's said before to his detractors, "May God open your spiritually blind eyes and mind and grace you with Truth. Sincerely, Ray. ."
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So who Pray Tell are " All the Vials Trumpets and 7 last Plagues in Revelation meant for " ? Somebody else. Blessed is he who Reads,Hear and KEEPS the sayings of this book, Rev 1:3. The entirety of scripture is about 2 men, Our OLd man carnal and by nature " Children of Wrath ( Eph 2:3) and Our new man who having All carnality burned out of us (Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the ( " Firery Trial " ) ( NOW ) wjich is to try you, 1PET 4:12 which is not subject to God's wrath 1 Thes 5:9. But to think our Old man which we are first will not " Drink the Cup " of God's wrath.. Oh well.
I guess The following verses are not to be ( which we are admonished ) to do, are not to be kept. Rev 6:17 , Rev 11: 18, Rev 12:12, Rev 14:8, Rev 14:10,
" Rev 14:19 ( might want to re-read that one), Rev 15:1 ( what about that one.) Rev 15:7 ( guess that only applies to really bad people), Rev 16:1 ( Somebody other than me I guess), Rev 16:19 ( surely this can't be me) Rev 18:3 ( Fred down the street I guess) Rev 19:15 ( Oh Well). To think our Old Man will not taste the fierceness of his wrath is truely blinded.
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I stopped reading Mike Vinson's site after Ray took his link off the Bible-Truths.com website, Longhorn.
I'm sure Marques and someone else can answer your assertions much better than I.
I suppose those plagues are meant for those who will receive the "many lashes" -- those who KNEW the Lord's will but didn't DO (keep) it. How can a person be blessed (happy, to be envied) while being subject to God's wrath? Who in their right mind would be envious of a person undergoing God's wrath, Longhorn? Do you even think about what you're saying?
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Those who knew the Lord's will, but didn't ( Don't) are every single one of us. Paul said it best, For what I am doing, I do not understand, For what I will to do, that I do not practice, but what I hate, that I do. Are we diffrent from Paul? The so called " My Assertation " are not mine, but from the very mouth of Christ. Your argument is not with me, but the scriptures I listed are " Words that proceed from the mouth of God". Yes these are not " Smooth Words " for those on milk, but it changes not the fact that we cannot " Take away or add " ( from)-(to) Christ's words.
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So who Pray Tell are " All the Vials Trumpets and 7 last Plagues in Revelation meant for " ? Somebody else.
Mother Babylon, who we are called to come out of:
Rev 18:4 I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her (Mother Babylon), my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
Blessed is he who Reads,Hear and KEEPS the sayings of this book, Rev 1:3. The entirety of scripture is about 2 men, Our OLd man carnal and by nature " Children of Wrath ( Eph 2:3) and Our new man who having All carnality burned out of us (Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the ( " Firery Trial " ) ( NOW ) wjich is to try you, 1PET 4:12 which is not subject to God's wrath 1 Thes 5:9. But to think our Old man which we are first will not " Drink the Cup " of God's wrath.. Oh well.
One cannot be saved from God's wrath [Rom 5:9] and still be subject to it, Longhorn. Being judged by fire has nothing to do with God's wrath. All the symbolic fires in scripture (Gehenna Fire, Everlasting/Eonian Fire, Lake of Fire) are all the same and we all, believer and unbeliever, are judged by them.
But concerning God's wrath, how can you 'keep the saying' of scripture that tells you to 'not partake of' and are 'saved from'?
I guess The following verses are not to be ( which we are admonished ) to do, are not to be kept. Rev 6:17 , Rev 11: 18, Rev 12:12, Rev 14:8, Rev 14:10,
" Rev 14:19 ( might want to re-read that one), Rev 15:1 ( what about that one.) Rev 15:7 ( guess that only applies to really bad people), Rev 16:1 ( Somebody other than me I guess), Rev 16:19 ( surely this can't be me) Rev 18:3 ( Fred down the street I guess) Rev 19:15 ( Oh Well). To think our Old Man will not taste the fierceness of his wrath is truely blinded.
And again, not one of these verses declare God's Elect being subject to God's wrath. If one did, you would simply post it and this discussion would be over. You can point out all the scriptures you want about God's wrath, but until you show one that directly says or implies God's wrath being placed on His Elect or believers, this entire premise is false.
We here at BT, as a ministry and gathering of like-minded, have been through this before and hopefully can avoid now. If anyone wants to believe in this false doctrine, fine...just don't bring it here as it has been refuted more times than it's worth. Hope you all understand.
Marques