Brett, I have been giving your question a fair amount of thought. I am perhaps the least qualified to attempt to answer your question but I will try.
1Cr 15:42
- So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43
- It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44
- It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
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Just what is the spiritual body? Does it mean a non-material body? Maybe not. We read that the spiritual body is incorruptible, is glorious and powerful; imperishable.
What does Luke say about the spiritual body?
Luk 24:67
- And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
Luk 24:37
- But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38
- And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39[/color]
- Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have[/i].
Do you see the difference in these two scriptures? Jesus's body was raised as a spiritual body, a perfect non natural body. (1Cr 15:44) However, Jesus himself said that it had flesh and bones, something in which a spirit cannot have.
1Cr 15:50
- Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
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So what is meant by Paul when he says that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God? Could it be that "flesh and blood" is another term given to our earthly, natural and sinful bodies from our lineage to Adam? As Christ is the last Adam and his body perfect and incorruptible spiritual body then so too must we receive such a spiritual body, free from sin, death disease and all vices of our natural body.
I feel Paul supports this in his very next verse.
1Cr 15:51
- Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52
- In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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Changed into what? A spirit? or a Spiritual body? What does Paul Say?
1Cr 15:49
- And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
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There you have it Brett, I will let you draw your own conclusions.
Comments welome and if I have posted something I should not have, I am truly sorry.
Christ is the giver of truth
Darren
Brett asked:
One question, Jesus rise from dead and He has spiritual body but invisible because Spirit is invisible, then Jesus somehow become like physical so the disciples can see Him. He was not literal flesh and blood but look like a form of body so that disciples can handle Him or touch His body.
Brett, all I know is what the scriptures state. :)
Luk 24:37
- But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38
- And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39
- Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Was Jesus lying? Did not Paul say that Jesus became a "quickening spirit?" There has been much contention regarding what happened to Jesus' body. How come the disciples could see and feel it. I have a hard time believing that Jesus deceived his trusted loyal followers. There must be more to a "quickening spirit?" than an invisible being/force.
Strongs Concordance (2227)
zoopoieo {dzo-op-oy-eh'-o}
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to produce alive, begat or bear living young
2) to cause to live, make alive, give life
a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
b) to restore to life
c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life
d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life
3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing
I believe with all my heart that these words are to instruct us.
1Cr 15:42
- So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43
- It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44
- It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
That there was a body is a given, is it a natural body? NO! :)
Is it perfect, imperishable and incorruptible? YES!
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!
Did the spiritual body ascend to heaven? I believe so, but will stand corrected.
Rom 8:11
- But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you
Once again, comments welcomes
He did not say Flesh and Blood. Nor were we given any evidence of blood on his wounds, because Jesus’ blood was shed on the cross. Paul wrote of this:
Hi all,I think if you add this all up, Jesus only APPEARED as a body of flesh and bone for the sake of the people.
Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Hmmmm...
Deedle :)
I am not too certain what your stance is on the subject, Deedle. Do you believe that Jesus IS literal flesh and bones? Maybe I am miss-reading you Grin
If this verse is to be taken literally, then am I a LITERAL member (maybe a hang-nail?) of His LITERAL flesh (ie: "...we are MEMBERS of His flesh and of His bones")? I see that as being spiritual. I believe I am a member of His spiritual body (hopfully at least a spiritual hang-nail!).
Cheers,
Jeremy
Hi all,
Isn't it true that Jesus did rise from the dead as a "life-giving SPIRIT"?
And, doesn't it say that a SPIRIT hath NOT flesh and bone (."..like you see/perceive that I/Jesus have.")?
I think if you add this all up, Jesus only APPEARED as a body of flesh and bone for the sake of the people. A natural man cannot see an invisible spirit being, thus Jesus had to APPEAR as a man of flesh and bone, so that men could actually perceive Him (not that He was literal flesh and bone). This is just what I see in the scriptures...is this what others here see as well?
Cheers,
Jeremy
Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Hmmmm...
Deedle :)
Spirit, flesh, spirit but able to manifest as flesh.....or ....something else?
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:1
Just a thought! :)
joyful1
Hi Jennifer,
"For the time HAS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the house of God (God's elect)".
I believe the scriptures state that judgment for God's people is now, in their natural lifetime, not after the resurrection.
For those outside the Kingdom (everyone who is not one of the elected Sons of God) are judged after their resurrection (which is the second resurrection) and purified through the lake of fire. Then they are able to come into the Kingdom.
The scriptures also state that "that is not first which is spiritual, but what is natural (natural life is first),then AFTERWARD the spiritual", thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again).
I believe this is what Ray teaches on his website. If not, then someone smack me in the shnozz!
Hi Jennifer,
"For the time HAS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the house of God (God's elect)".
I believe the scriptures state that judgment for God's people is now, in their natural lifetime, not after the resurrection.
For those outside the Kingdom (everyone who is not one of the elected Sons of God) are judged after their resurrection (which is the second resurrection) and purified through the lake of fire. Then they are able to come into the Kingdom.
The scriptures also state that "that is not first which is spiritual, but what is natural (natural life is first),then AFTERWARD the spiritual", thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again).
I believe this is what Ray teaches on his website. If not, then someone smack me in the shnozz!
So are you thinking the LOF and the "second" resurrection are the same thing, meaning resurrection is a process???
Hi Jennifer,
"For the time HAS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the house of God (God's elect)".
I believe the scriptures state that judgment for God's people is now, in their natural lifetime, not after the resurrection.
For those outside the Kingdom (everyone who is not one of the elected Sons of God) are judged after their resurrection (which is the second resurrection) and purified through the lake of fire. Then they are able to come into the Kingdom.
The scriptures also state that "that is not first which is spiritual, but what is natural (natural life is first),then AFTERWARD the spiritual", thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again).
I believe this is what Ray teaches on his website. If not, then someone smack me in the shnozz!
So are you thinking the LOF and the "second" resurrection are the same thing, meaning resurrection is a process???
Rocky, I'm not certain how you came to that conclusion based on what I said (?) I do not believe the second resurrection is a process. I believe it is a single event in time. However, I believe that the LOF will be a process...that's for sure :) The LOF follows the second resurrection.
I recently read a book about the mind-spirit problem. Basically the western christian mind set which is dualistic (soul/body) is in deep doodoo (I try to use technical language when I can) scientifically. With the advent of the MRI, science has been able to dispell many myths about the brain and how it functions. Out of this recent research a very minimalistic phylosophy has grown. There are many who believe (and have solid proof) that we really are a sum of chemical and electrical impulses and that a lot of what we think is free will really is predisposition and that our fate is tied to our genes and environment.
The crux of the issue is that when the brain is damaged the essence of the person can change drastically, even engaging in what the Christian world calls sinful behavior- even uncrontrolably. A good example of this is people who have frontal lobe damage (which is thought to be the center of reason) become very impulsive (follow this link to Phineas Gage http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/phineas-gage) 'So what' you may say. The problem is that those people who were "saved" and lead very Christian lives changed the moment damage occured to their brains.
Here is where I am struggling...
I have always had a fairly deep belief in the afterlife and heaven and hell. I now have had to rethink much of my understanding because I cannot ignore what research after research is finding. I recently have had some conversations with others who are leaning towards the notion that when Jesus spoke of eternal life he was speaking of finite abundant life. It has occured to me that a greater sacrifice would be to live this finite life as Jesus did with the motivation of love--- without the rewards of a positive afterlife.
What do ya'll think- I have thick skin so you can let me have it!
Joeshrink
Here is where I am struggling...
I have always had a fairly deep belief in the afterlife and heaven and hell. I now have had to rethink much of my understanding because I cannot ignore what research after research is finding. I recently have had some conversations with others who are leaning towards the notion that when Jesus spoke of eternal life he was speaking of finite abundant life. It has occured to me that a greater sacrifice would be to live this finite life as Jesus did with the motivation of love--- without the rewards of a positive afterlife.
What do ya'll think- I have thick skin so you can let me have it! Joeshrink
Definitely we should give OURSELVES over to Jesus in love, but I don't believe everyone can do this, because not everyone is pre-determrined to.
QuoteDefinitely we should give OURSELVES over to Jesus in love, but I don't believe everyone can do this, because not everyone is pre-determrined to.
I have heard this before. I guess you should feel very blessed that you are chosen. Too bad though for those who are not.