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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: rumpelstiltskin on May 26, 2013, 03:59:24 AM
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God’s Word portrays a far different and higher spiritual destiny than the Christian candy-coated heaven of a Disney World Magic Kingdom with pearly gates, streets of gold, fluffy clouds, and chubby-cheeked cherubs strumming their little harps while huge choruses sing rock-n-roll gospel music and the saints practice rapping with the angels in a land of endless mountains of chocolate and candy where everyone has his own mansion in which to live in the lap of perpetual luxury, laziness, and non-accomplishment, catering to the lusts of the flesh while delighting over a vision of countless billions writhing in unspeakable torturous pain of an eternal lake of fire. What a HELL that would be!
;) :)
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Did you ever notice at funerals the HEAVY EMPHASIS on "being reunited with loved ones" and "mulling over the good times they had on earth" and; and also:--- "Oh, they will see Jesus, too!"?
Did you ever hear at a funeral: John 3:13 "And NO MAN hath ascended up into heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man Who is in heaven."?
"And I am sure he/she is looking down on us right now and smiling." Ecc. 9:5 "The living know that they will die, BUT THE DEAD KNOW NOTHING...."?
All this and much, MUCH more is due to Ray and his influence on me. I could go on and on with the misrepresentation of 'CHRISTIAN FUNERALS" but this is not a teaching site and I don't want to break the rules. :-)
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Heaven: To do interesting, productive and meaningful work without fatigue, justly and generously compensated and advanced, with wonderful co-workers and the perfect Boss.
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Hi
Heaven; To experience the glory of bringing others to salvation, the friendship, the bonding, the sharing of the spirit, the aha! now I get it moments of reveling in and loving the truth.
Askseeknock
Charles O
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To experience the glory of bringing others to salvation (http://To experience the glory of bringing others to salvation)
Wow! How does one do that?
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I like what it says in Romans in chapter and in Corinthians about Heaven .....I groan.....and I know we will be in a Spiritual body....
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"chubby-cheeked cherubs strumming their little harps" and "endless mountains of chocolate and candy"
Are my absolute favorite "Heaven" descriptions :)
I mean come ooown, who doesn't love chubby-cheeked cherubs and endless chocolaty mountains! hahaha
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"chubby-cheeked cherubs strumming their little harps" and "endless mountains of chocolate and candy"
Are my absolute favorite "Heaven" descriptions :)
I mean come ooown, who doesn't love chubby-cheeked cherubs and endless chocolaty mountains! hahaha
Huh?? You mean that's not true. And I love cherubs especially with harps. :P
Rhys
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Haha, you are correct Rhys, I was being sarcastic.
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well when you lose someone you love your spouse or child sometimes its all you can do to go through that day.. Its torture the pain. so thinking that you will see them again in Heaven is a comfort a salve to your soul that is crying. I am so happy Jesus is LOrd when Jesus takes away he gives so much more back. His life
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And we will see them again in the resurrection, in the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus, in the age to come, here on this earth, here in the garden of paradise that our Lord will create once again for our contentment.
...your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:10
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that is a good
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Since coming to BT, this is one matter that has bothered me. What really does happen after we die. Ray taught that our spirits return to God for safekeeping until the resurrection and our bodies sleep in the dust, knowing nothing. But how comforting is the thought, or rather the Word, if it be true? Personally, I like heaven, cherub, harps and all. :)
My neighbor passed away recently. My six year old called her chocolate aunty. So I told her that chocolate aunty had died, she'd been sick awhile. My daughter looked sad, then asked, 'what will she do with her house, will she never come alive? She will, I replied. When? When Jesus comes back. When will that be? Soon, I smiled. She seemed to have no problem accepting the truth. Perhaps that's why Jesus said we ought to be like little children if we are to inherit the Kingdom.
I think that if our understanding of the Word is true, it will comfort. Jesus is our comforter and He is the Word.
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Loretta, it IS a comfort to understand death. Scripture likens it to 'sleep'. Think about it...if the dead know nothing, then the last thing we know in life is LIFE...even if that life was diseased, or about to suffer some grave injury, or about to die in some other way. The next thing we KNOW is LIFE again. Even your little girl can understand that. What difference does it make to the dead if they 'sleep' for a few days or a greatly long time? We go from LIFE to LIFE. It's not just those who are alive and remain that will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.
Now, I'm not about to go picket funerals or pass out fliers of Rays' paper A Comforting Thought About Death. But the truth of the matter IS comforting...and most especially for those whose hearts are full of fear about Hell and eternal separation. I'll gladly give up visions of fluffy clouds and cherubs to spare them even the remotest pain of religious certainty or doubt that their loved ones are eternally without hope.
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But the truth of the matter IS comforting...and most especially for those whose hearts are full of fear about Hell and eternal separation. I'll gladly give up visions of fluffy clouds and cherubs to spare them even the remotest pain of religious certainty or doubt that their loved ones are eternally without hope.
You're right Dave. If we were to believe in heaven, then there must be hell too. Fear of hell and eternal separation keeps us from having a relationship with God as we attempt to navigate our own way, ostensibly away from hell and eternal punishment. The Catholics have their sacraments, the Protestants and Evangelicals think they're born again and headed straight to heaven, the Hindus have reincarnation, the Muslims have the holy jihad...
So we must teach the truth as it has been revealed to us.
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This is comforting for those who are left bereft after death - but for the person dying - it scares me - to just be switched off? Not an easy pill to swallow - yes its our spirit that God breathed into us that gives us being that goes back to Him - that is a joy - but to be switched off or not to wake up - who wants to cease being? maybe this why these pagan theories were so popular
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That's why the question in scripture isn't "where do I live/go when I die?" but "If a man die, shall he live again?" Paul preached Resurrection--Christ's and ours--and that was the crux of what caused some to scoff, some to desire to "hear more" and some to believe.
In the many years between church and BT, I entertained all sorts of imaginings about what life after death would be. I couldn't list all the 'thoughts' I had, from heaven and hell to the end of existence/being "switched off". The one I never considered, however, was the one taught in Scripture. And that's the one that brings me comfort. I'm at something of a disadvantage because I don't have any kids, but I'm pretty sure I could explain the truth for young ears that would be 'good news'. It's only grown-ups who need the fairy tales, I think.
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That is why our only hope is the Resurrection - thanks Dave
When we are alive and well it is easy to remember - but I think when that time comes for each of us there is fear and trepidation
I've held a loved ones hand when his last breathe left his body - it is surreal
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Ladies, please forgive me if I come across too preachy or as a religious hobbyist loving to debate doctrine. I don't love these truths because they make me right and everybody else wrong, and certainly not because I'm better. I love them because they themselves are better. I had a heart attack in my mid 40's which came awfully close to killing me, and spent a good number of months fearing every time I went to sleep I would wake up dead. ;) I've grappled with these questions not from a philosophical or theological standpoint, but as someone who felt he was about to find out for himself. Every thought was confusion until I just believed what He said.
As I said, I don't want to picket funerals and I'm not against ANY thing that brings a comforting thought to people in distress. A couple of shots of vodka will do a man good too. I know that God is in control and all ends well, even if they don't. But I don't know any better than anybody else what 'awaits' us. I just know I'm going to be disappointed if it gets boring after a while or doesn't exceed in goodness the evil that preceded it.
Back to my cave.
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Thanks Dave - sorry if I added my objections - who are we to complain - like it says death and taxes - everybody owes
I speak as a fool I know - but I am only starting to understand LOVE and I am still afraid of dying or is that paying
Thanks Dave - your honesty is beautiful
and scripture is true - I think its me that needs a cave
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This cave you both speak of wouldn't by chance be the Bat cave. I love Batman - not personally but if you could give me the location to the Bat cave I would be very grateful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjKyGs-G6Sg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjKyGs-G6Sg)
You see who wouldn't want a cave like that and that car. Not sure about the tights there wearing. Anyone who wears there underpants on the outside is someone to stay clear of in my humble opinion. ;D
Ha ha too funny
Rhys ;)
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Dave and Hayley,
Yes very beautiful. The truth is very beautiful and peaceful. And Dave when you were talking about and describing "the twinkline of an eye" it reminds me and just stirs me up and gets me excited! To think...
"Wow, when I die, it doesn't matter if its been a day or a thousand years, Jesus WILL wake me up and it WILL only feel as quick as a twinkling of an eye."
I love it :)
And Rhys, I too dream of owning a Bat Cave. If I had to wear the tights to get the cave and car... I would wear the tights. AND THEN BATTARANG ANY FOOL WHO MOCKED ME. No, that's not resisting evil, instead it's giving evil a remedial treatment... I welcome all evil mocking towards me. Or I could summon the very bats of the air to fly around their heads! Ooooh that will teach them. Haha :)
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I have often thought about what heaven will be like, its interesting thinking as our senses speculate on it. I think there will be a lot of regular worship going on, because God deserves it, and the current citizens of heaven know how God really is, and they want to worship that, because they know they are fortunate of it; God being like he is. I think a lot of teaching will be going on, perhaps a very large amount of time spent educating us on so many things. Who will be doing the teaching? I think Jesus, maybe God at times, the Apostles, who knows, maybe some advanced Angels. I think a lot of building will be going on, perhaps in every part of this unknown vast universe, every planet a construction spot. A lot of recreation and healing, and traveling. Its no telling what the travel could be like, endless possibilitys there. I hope we can get some one on one time with Christ and God, or even some of the 24 elders who surround God on his throne. I just wonder what it will be like.
There will be so many people there, we can't all be doing the same things at the same time, so I think some kind of organized cities and states, or types of groups is certainly possible. I wonder how we will interact with the perhaps billions of Angels and other beings that have been created? I think the beginning of all this will probally focus on our healing and adjustment from being changed from physical to spiritual , and let that take its time; and I think God himself will be personally involved in that, Revelations says he will wipe away all of our tears. Man, that will be quite something, to have God personally heal you.
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I don't have to think about going to heaven, at least for several eons, because I hope to be with Jesus on the Earth.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matt. 5:5
And His (The LORD) feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,... Zech. 14:4
Well I meant Gods entire Kingdom by saying heaven, I quess its just easier to say heaven. I do think earth will be the center of it all, but I don't think the Kingdom of God will have boundry or boarders; probally no mental boarders either. The expanse of our consciousness just growing continually, is just hard to even consider.
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New Earth
Isa 65:17 For, behold Me creating new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor shall they come upon the heart."
From the Encouraging Scriptures
Rev 21:1 And I perceived a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth pass away, and the sea is no more."
Rev 21:2 I perceived the holy city, new Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband."
Rev 21:3 And I hear a loud voice out of the throne saying, "Lo! the tabernacle of God is with mankind, and He will be tabernacling with them, and they will be His peoples, and God Himself will be with them."
Rev 21:4 And He will be brushing away every tear from their eyes. And death will be no more, nor mourning, nor clamor, nor misery; they will be no more, for the former things passed away."
Rev 21:5 And He Who is sitting on the throne said, "Lo! New am I making all!And He is saying, "Write, for these sayings are faithful and true."
Hummer
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Ladies, please forgive me if I come across too preachy or as a religious hobbyist loving to debate doctrine. I don't love these truths because they make me right and everybody else wrong, and certainly not because I'm better. I love them because they themselves are better. I had a heart attack in my mid 40's which came awfully close to killing me, and spent a good number of months fearing every time I went to sleep I would wake up dead. ;) I've grappled with these questions not from a philosophical or theological standpoint, but as someone who felt he was about to find out for himself. Every thought was confusion until I just believed what He said.
As I said, I don't want to picket funerals and I'm not against ANY thing that brings a comforting thought to people in distress. A couple of shots of vodka will do a man good too. I know that God is in control and all ends well, even if they don't. But I don't know any better than anybody else what 'awaits' us. I just know I'm going to be disappointed if it gets boring after a while or doesn't exceed in goodness the evil that preceded it.
Back to my cave.
Maybe I could join you in your cave. Being able to accept the plan of God for all of us is a miracle in itself. WE all are blessed to have been given this tiny and yet vital piece of knowledge to give us true peace in our hearts.
Thanks for all that you contribute especially the admonitions to do better and to trust our elder brother the Lord Jesus.
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In my former Christian days, while I was trying to raise my elder daughter to be a Christian, I recall having got her Randy Alcorn's, 'Heaven for Kids'. She was about 11-12 at the time and I distinctly remember that she was more than amused with what she read about heaven. Post BT, since we were having this discussion about heaven, I asked her (now 14) what she thought about the book. She said she didn't even finish the book, it all sounded so fictional! Why is it that we adults are so gullible?! :)
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we enjoy the fantasy....at least I use it as an escape in role playing video games and daydreaming at times.....my carnal mind needs stimulation lol......or I am utterly depressed....I often times attempt to kick start my spiritual mind....and that takes reading rays papers and or ideas and his teachings on the scriptures.....and reading the posts on the forum.....if left to my own I often drift.
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Wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this thread.
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Wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this thread.
Ok, so you're not the gullible kind! :)