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In Mr. Smith's paper on the Lucifer Hoax he said that God is making a new creation of Son and Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus. He was giving commentary on Isaiah 13 and 14. I've read his paper " Is God a closed Trinity or an expanding family " and also his article " Why does God love you " and I was stunned. I learned that we are of the same race as our God and Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We are His children and partakers of His divine nature. But did he ever give any teaching as to what he meant when he said God is making " Son and Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus"? Did he ever explain that in any of his meetings? What does that mean? Thanks, Jonathan

Quote from: zarlareignofthefairies on May 16, 2015, 07:07:49 PM
In Mr. Smith's paper on the Lucifer Hoax he said that God is making a new creation of Son and Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus. He was giving commentary on Isaiah 13 and 14. I've read his paper " Is God a closed Trinity or an expanding family " and also his article " Why does God love you " and I was stunned. I learned that we are of the same race as our God and Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We are His children and partakers of His divine nature. But did he ever give any teaching as to what he meant when he said God is making " Son and Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus"? Did he ever explain that in any of his meetings? What does that mean? Thanks, Jonathan

Hi Zarlare,

I've prepared some scriptures below which might help you better understand just what ray meant by the fact that the sons and daughters of God will be used to save the world. Part of understanding this subject requires that you understand the basic principle that Jesus Christ is not a failure and will indeed accomplish His mission of saving the world. He does this through the ELECT which are the sons and daughters of God which are the saints (the few chosen) who overcome.

Perhaps no other verse in all of scripture brings that message home than this one:

Obadiah 1:21 And saviourS shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.

Now try and follow my thoughts here as I use some verses to direct you through this idea that permeates the holy scriptures.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Before we can judge the world though we must undergo judgment ourselves in Gehenna fire where Christ teaches us to judge ourselves.

Matthew 5 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of Gehenna fire.

Matthew 5:29-30
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into Gehenna [FIRE].
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into Gehenna [FIRE].

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1 Cor 11:31 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.


1 Corinthians 3:13-16
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day [JUDGMENT DAY] shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come[NOW!] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

So you see that going through the fire is very important in this part of becoming like Christ. It's symbolic for God's judgment and becoming one with Him. God is a consuming fire and for God to be all in all, all will have to learn to dwell within the fire (undergo judgment-- be purified and refined). The lake that doesn't hurt those who overcome where the world is judged in revelation burns with fire. It is symbolic for God and the Elect, they are the lake of fire.

John 17:21-23
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Isaiah 33:14-15 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So if Christ reigns then we (will) reign, if Christ judges then we (will) judge, if Christ has immortality then we (will) have immortality etc... because we will be like Him!

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Rev.11:15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of OUR LORD AND OF HIS CHRIST; and He shall reign forever and ever."

Notice Jesus is the Lord but who is His Christ [The 42nd generation!]?

Psalm 2 1-12
"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord,and against His anointed [Christ], saying, Let us break THEIR bands ["Their" - Implying this isn't just ONE PERSON] asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh; the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my HOLY HILL OF ZION. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, THOU ART MY SON: this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. THOU SHALT BREAK THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON: THOU SHALT DASH THEM IN PIECES LIKE A POTTER'S VESSEL. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

The king is set upon the holy hill. Who is that city [Zion] upon the holy hill? We are that city upon the hill! God dwells in us!

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, A ROYAL priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city [HOLY NATION--ZION] that is set on a hill cannot be hid.

(See also revelation about Heavenly Jerusalem coming down out of heaven adorned AS A BRIDE.)

So then here it is straight from the lips of our God:

Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

(Notice its the renewal of ALL things ;) )

Now all these things are one. I apologize if it seems a bit much. There is more... read all of ray's material. God used him to bring back some things (that were probably hidden for some time) out into the open for all to see.

Matthew 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

In Christ,
Alex

Very well presented Alex,
Thank you for sharing that illustration.
It is helpful to rehearse our understanding from time to time and to expound what we have learned here with Mr. Smith and all who contribute.  ;D

Indiana Bob

Hi zarla,

Here are a couple of places Ray spoke on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.msg50216.html#msg50216 ----

This is part of the gospel. Christ was crucified, was dead, rose from the dead.

v. 41  not to all the people, but to chosen witnesses before by God, even to us (Peter was a witness) who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead.
v. 42  And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained of God to be the Judge of the quick and the dead.

Oops, how did that slip in there? Did you notice that? Did you notice what the gospel is? Jesus Christ is "the judge of the quick and the dead." That is the gospel. This takes us all the way down to Rev. 22, doesn't it. It certainly does. This thing of judgment is part of the gospel... "Judge of the quick and the dead." Now John says that as Christ is, so are we. Christ is the judgment. Guess what? So are we. 

1Cor 6:2  Do you not know...

Who is the you? Corinthians. Who are the Corinthians? The chosen, these are uncircumcised in flesh, circumcised in the heart, in spirit... Gentiles. They are the kingdom of God, these are the heavens where God's Spirit dwells and He says unto them.

1Cor 6:2 ...that the saints shall judge the world? 

That's the gospel. Jesus Christ was appointed for that thing, to be the judge of the quick and the dead and as Christ is so are we. Guess what? We are to judge the world. Well of course, we are going to rule them with a rod of iron. That is how we are going to start out in the kingdom of God on this earth, over the nations of the world, in what's called the millennium or the thousand year reign. 

Rom 8:22  And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.

The whole world. If you have any doubts about that, just turn on the evening news. If it's not the weather; the hurricanes, the earthquakes, then it's wars and terrorist. Now they are burning down Paris, for eight days straight. This is always been the condition of the world. They say the history of mankind is a chronicle of wars. Man is either in war, coming out of war or preparing for the next war.

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creation waits...

This whole world, this whole creation is groaning and travailing in pain. Is waiting for what?

Rom 8:19 ...for the manifestation of the sons of God.

That's us, the sons of God or the kingdom of God. They are the heavens in which the Spirit of God dwells and will rule the nations.

Obadiah 1:21  And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mountain of Esau (this is them); and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.

The "saviors" are going to rule from mount Zion, not over there in that ugly swill of a city called Jerusalem. But from spiritual mount Zion. He is going to rule them, "Esau" is them, "and the kingdom shall be the Lord's." What kingdom? The kingdom of what, in this context? Kingdom of saviors, plural saviors. Who are these saviors? That's us, we're saviors. Well this sounds a little odd, I mean we're saying we're going to be the saviors of the world. Well we do have a leader though, King of kings, Lord of lords, Savior of saviors and Son of sons. We're sons right, He's the Son of the sons. He will always have a name superior to every other one.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4445.0.html ---------------

It just amazes me how utterly short-sighted Biblical scholars and theologians can be when they are locked into their pagan traditions. Jesus had a special REWARD/AWARD for all His followers. What was it? Heaven? NO. Eternal life? NO. All humanity will be given immortality which is in effect eternal, everlasting life.

So what is so special that only the CHOSEN FEW will receive it? It is ruling and reigning and judging with Jesus Christ!  This reign is "eonian" or "age-lasting." It is decidedly NOT "eternal," as we are plainly told that it will END (I Cor. 15:25). Jesus rules only "UNTIL" He puts all enemies under His feet, at which time He hands over the reign of the Kingdom to His God and Father (Verses 27-28). All enemies will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS and ultimately be saved (Isa. 26:9, I Tim. 2:4, I Tim. 4:10, Phil. 2:9-11, Eph. 1:10, etc., etc., etc).

And so, those who do not quality to rule, reign, and judge with Christ, will themselves BE JUDGED. And judgment means to set things right. Hence "the [wicked] shall go away into everlasting [Gk: 'eonian'] punishment [Gk: 'chastisement']: but the righteous [the chosen Elect Few[ into life eternal [Gk: 'eonian' also]"  (Matt. 25:46). Aionios is the adjective form of the noun aion. Aion means an "age."  Aionios means that which pertains to an age. Eternus is a Latin word that surprisingly traces it etymology to the Greek word aion. Eternus never, ever meant "endless time" until hundreds of years after the Bible was completed and the Catholic Church decided that aions would be now taught to be "ENDLESS ages." As aion and aionios never meant endless, the word endless had to be affixed to aion and aionos in order to ever give it such a false and erroneous meaning.

The root of "kolasis" means "cutting off," as in pruning a tree. One prunes a tree to make it PRODUCE MORE FRUIT, not to kill it!  The wicked are chastised (judged) for the period of Christ's reign and the Saints reign for the period of Christ's reign. Both periods are the same length--until their purpose has been accomplished. Simple, huh? And Scriptural as well. God will torture no one for all eternity. That is blasphemously insane!!

God be with you,
Ray

Thank you so much, Alex and Kat, for the great explanation and links to Ray's writings telling us so much about God's wonderful plan for His chosen in this life as well as for all of humanity!
Your brother in Christ,
Randy

Thanks everyone. I can see it now. And yes, I will keep reading Ray's teachings until I have finished them. Jonathan

Oh, by the way. I found where Ray teaches on this subject. It's in his paper "God judges the world in a pond" at bible-truths. He does a fantastic job.

Once again thanks everyone,
Jonathan