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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: pg-91 on July 26, 2016, 08:43:58 PM
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Hi all,
I would just like to share some things about my life and maybe you could give some useful remarks about it. I'm 25 now, and have been struggling with depression and guilt for about 6 years. As I already wrote in an other topic I have a lot of regrets regarding my behaviour to my brother (who died in cancer) and my classmate (who died in an accident/suicide). I thought over these mistakes again and again and I'm very angry and disappointed with myself.
My way to escape from this guilt and which time to time seems to me, hopeless situation, was and unfortunately is watching pornography. It has started 6 years ago, and sometimes I could go some weeks without it, but it's still a big problem. I also started to go to a psychiatrist a year ago, with the so called OCD. It makes this whole thing even more difficult. Nowadays when I watch porn it usually makes my OCD, and intrusive thoughts even worse. And I still couldn't stop...
Ironically, I make my living by playing chess. But, since I've started to read the Bible, I have also problems regarding chess, I don't know whether it could be considered a normal work or a useful and good activity which is worth to pursue. I am alone most of the time, hardly have any friends, thinking a lot, which I know doesn't help with these problems. But I simply can't go on with life. When I had my best results, usually the worst was my depression. I even used to cry while sleeping. I think it has to do with the belief that I don't deserve anything good.
Sometimes I feel better after reading some of the teachings of Ray or some discussions here, but then I fall back. Also I have now this thought, when I feel 10 times worse and hopeless after watching porn, that I couldn't avoid watching it anyway, which I feel is a strange thing to think, but I am so upset at myself, because on the other hand I think how could I be so stupid to watch it again, since now it's not "just" a sin but makes the OCD worse.
I would very much appreciate any thoughts or advices, I really don't see the way out of this. I would also be interested to hear about your motivations in this life, what to do you think is meaningful and important?
George
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Hi George,
I turned 28 this year myself and can relate to your struggle with pornography. You are certainly not alone. The fact you feel guilty as you do is a very good indication that God is working in you.
You may not know this scripture, but in revalation we are told, "and power was given unto the beast, to make war with the saints and overcome them." Paul says, "we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities, with powers of darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places."
God has called and chosen you and began his good work in you and He will be the one to finish it, not you. You are the saint Goerge, and the beast inside you was given by the foreknowlesge and wisdom of God, power to make war with you and to overcome you. But Jesus is making His home in you and He has overcome the world, so be of good cheer and have faith that in due season you will be born of God.
You can search these forums my username and my previous posts of this very same struggle you now wrestle with. You may find amazing words of encouragements by others to myself in those threads. I know that many here were enouraging to myself and many of the older men could relate to the passions of youth as the lust of the flesh will still rear its ugly head in older age, but i have heard, less frequently than it does for us now.
It is a lesson in humility and patients. My lust for the flesh, naked women--Pornography--has been a crown of shame for me and it keeps me so very humble. Indeed I would find at times I was angry, Angry with the apostle Paul of all people. I mean how dare he call himself the worse sinner that ever lived, surely had he know this secret shame of mine, surely if he had met me, then surely he would have labeled me the chief of sinners. I mean, after all, Paul was caught up to paradise and was given such divine revelation, he was blessed enough to see the risen Lord Himself. I have never seen... but you see, paul slaughtered and wasted innocent lives, my pornography.. oh how foolish I was to try and steal paul's title but in all that, can you not see how God who in the blink of an eye converted the worst sinner to ever live into His greatest champion for the gospel, can certainly deal with our sins and make us white as snow? And did not Jesus say, blessed are they who yet having not seen still believe? This is you, this is me. We are blessed and our sins are no match for the Mighty God who see's who we shall be one day. A destiny He was willing to die for! He must see something amazing in us George to do that. Just you wait until He's done with us! While God is no respector of persons, we all must stand before the judgment seat of Christ, He does choose us and to be chosen now by Him does mean we are precious and special in His sight above all people of the earth. Take heart in that and know that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according tothe flesh but in spirit.
A righteouss man FALLS seven times... AND rises UP again!
God bless,
Alex
P.S. if you need a friend and have a facebook, id be more than willing to share in friendship there. Just let me know!
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Dear George,
I will not pretend to understand how it feels to be depressed like you. I have known some people--including my dear wife--who have depression, and my attempts at empathy are usually pretty pathetic: I can hardly even say "I'm sorry" without tripping over my own two feet and making things worse.
Regarding the chess, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that for a living. I've liked chess since my pre-teen years, and I think it's great that you are good enough to make a living at it (I certainly wasn't!). I do get to make my living by not "working"---I just draw pictures; silly, unimportant pictures. Like you, I've sometimes wondered if this is useful or worthwhile. But I feel very blessed doing it; maybe someday God will take it from me, but for now I'm going to enjoy it, and thank Him every day that I get to do what I do.
You are still quite young, and it would be highly unusual for a 25-year old man to be given full victory over lust. I don't mean to discourage you by saying that; but it's a long, hard road. You don't see a lot of 25-year old PhDs, presidents, grandfathers...those things take a lot of work, a lot of learning, a lot of experience to obtain. It's the same with our sins; God does not just give us victory when we still have most of our life ahead of us. It's a lot harder to overcome sin than to get a PhD. or become president of the U.S. The good news is a) there is a purpose for it all (even if it doesn't seem like it), and b) you don't have to overcome it; Christ will do it in you. You might have to wait a long time, but He will.
Here are a couple e-mails from Ray for you to read:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4098.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4098.0.html)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4069.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4069.0.html)
And here is something very encouraging from the forum archives:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13435.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13435.0.html)
Jesse
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Thank you for the answers and encouraging words, Alex and Jesse.
Regarding the chess, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that for a living. I've liked chess since my pre-teen years, and I think it's great that you are good enough to make a living at it (I certainly wasn't!). I do get to make my living by not "working"---I just draw pictures; silly, unimportant pictures. Like you, I've sometimes wondered if this is useful or worthwhile. But I feel very blessed doing it; maybe someday God will take it from me, but for now I'm going to enjoy it, and thank Him every day that I get to do what I do.
It is good to hear, that you have a kind of similar job, Jesse. I would also like to view and play chess like it's an art( which I believe in a way it is), like drawing pictures, but during tournaments, I think its sporting element what dominates, fighting against an opponent and striving for the best possible results. And also, supposedly my oppenent also makes his living by playing chess, and of course I know that we don't influence each others income in the long run, but I still feel it's a tricky situation to be in.
As with pornography, of course lust is also a problem, but I believe the biggest problem is my guilt. When thoughts like, " Why was I so stupid?" "It will never be better" "Nothing makes sense now" come in, that's the time when I usually watch porn. So my main"reasoning" before watching is that is doesn't matter anyway, but after watching, I always realize that it matters. I understand you, that there is a purpose behind overcoming sins and it should not be easy, but now, when I always fall back when remembering my past mistakes, it feels very difficult even to go on with this fight.
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Hi George,
I don't think you should feel bad about the sporting element. I'm not a super competitive person, but I understand that competition is what pushes the best to the top. I've read about pro athletes developing killer instincts, where they have to hate their opponent and crush him, because "he's over there trying to take food off my table." While that may be an extreme way of looking at it, I suppose it's true; but don't let that bother you, because it's like that in pretty much every job.
I go to art fairs to sell my drawings, and there are dozens if not hundreds of other artists "competing" against me. Sometimes people buy my things more than my neighbor's. Sometimes the neighbor gets more business. Sometimes we both get a lot, and sometimes we both get very little (if there's a storm, for instance.) Sometimes the customers tell me upfront, "These are really nice, but I wanted to get _____ today and I don't have money for both. So maybe next time." That's okay.
Even when I worked as a dishwasher for minimum wage, I was "competing" against other people. Maybe there was a retiree or single mother who badly needed that minimum wage job, and I was taking food off her table. Such is life in this world. If we think too much about how our jobs are depriving other people, we will drive ourselves crazy. Play chess, do your best, and don't feel bad for wanting to beat the other fellow.
Regarding guilt, as Alex said, guilt can be good for us because it indicates we realize our need for redemption. And eventually it will drive us to God. I don't know if you read that email I linked last time, but I will re-post the opening paragraph here:
You are not alone out there with this particular pull of the flesh for sexual gratification. It is common among all men (and women to a somewhat lesser extent). It is GOOD that we should feel embarrassed over our sins. My past sins are an embarrassment to me when I from time to time think about them. If they were NOT an embarrassment to me, I might still be committing these same stupid and lustful acts. Embarrassment and guilt are good for us. These feelings first make us realize that these things are lustful, and wrong, and stupid. But we will not have victory over them unless and until God reveals to us their real purpose and need to get rid of them.
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Hi Jesse,
Thank you once again for your thoughts. It was very interesting to me to read your insights about these professions and your examples from everyday life. I see that in the this world it's very difficult to find a job which is "perfect" in all respects.
Yeah, I read the e-mails which you linked, and I absolutely agree, that guilt and embarrassment can be good for us. I, myself started to first read about Jesus Christ and what he did, about 4 years ago when I was at a very low point because of guilt. But, my problem is, that I think now these same memories and feelings of guilt are driving me away from God not to God like back then. If I understand correctly Ray meant victory over sins in the last sentence in your copied quote. I'm wondering, is there such a thing as victory over feelings? God's foreknowledge I suppose, includes our feelings too. Maybe I have to experience these feelings, and this crazy OCD, now?
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Dear George,
Yes, you have to experience these feelings now, and yes, there is victory over feelings:
Isa. 51:11-So the ransomed of the LORD will return And come with joyful shouting to Zion, And everlasting joy will be on their heads. They will obtain gladness and joy, And sorrow and sighing will flee away.
Rev. 21:4-and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away
Try not to get discouraged when you "feel" like you're being driven from God. That is part of the process too. There have been times--very recently--when I have thought "I've known these truths for nearly 10 years, and I am still such a mess." Sometimes it seems like I am more carnal than I was before I even came here. But I don't make the rules. I don't make the timeline. I feel like I should be "farther along" by now, but it's God who is doing the work in me. If I need more experience, and need to be humbled more (and I most assuredly do), I'm not going to automatically have victory just because my eyes have been opened to certain things. To assume that I should have overcome my sins by now is to insinuate that God doesn't know what He's doing...and I know that's not true.
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Dear Jesse,
Thanks for the encouraging words. Yes, I also believe there will be victory over feelings,sins and everything when Christ returns, but what about this life? It's very hard for me to view things from that future perspective, when it's so difficult to live with this OCD and guilt.
Now I'm thinking about these stupid things which I made nowadays, to make this OCD worse, and I feel it's normal to be mad at myself and at the same time, I learned here that it couldn't have been otherwise - these truths are beyond me for now, I guess.
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Hi pt- 91,
I have started many topics on the sovereignty of God which you most likely are aware of and though I name the threads differently and spoke of Gods sovereignty in different ways I somehow knew once fully understood would explain why everything that happens happens.
Understanding Gods sovereignty will not changed or alter any outcome in anyone's life but inspires one or even forces one to stop looking outwardly and start looking inwardly at ourselves the beast of Revelation.
Now understanding that everything we think do and say is of God and all these things we do have a cause behind it which is out of our control and are not in vain because these causes are the very thing that God intended so that we will experience good and evil and will also produced character and build virtue.
It's my personal belief that understanding the sovereignty of God is the first order of operation of spiritual growth one should seriously consider.
All that we go through goes back to the garden of Eden when God said let us be making man in our image.
Maybe one should consider that God is getting us to think about everything we think do and say using and reigning in our emotions with each new thought and action we choose.
God bless.
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Hi Rick,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, I have read some of your threads on this topic with interest. I've found this forum and Ray's teachings not so long ago, and I guess for me also the sovereignty of God and our "free" will is the most difficult theme to grasp so far. Sorry, English is not my first language, could you explain to me, what you meant by your last sentence?
George
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Hi pg- 91,
We must consider that God created us with emotions and our emotions are connected with each and every thought we have.
Without emotions would wrong doing bother us ? Without emotions would lust have a pull on us ? Believe it or not today I've come to terms with the sovereignty of God , today I surrendered the idea of any control over any and all circumstances and choices.
What ever we experience was intended and can in no wise be altered in any way shape or form by us and everything that happens is for our learning and understanding and ultimately our change of mind heart and attitude towards God.
When one really understands the sovereignty of God one can then start to understand themselves and others and why everything that happens in this age is and was well planned out and all things go back to the sovereignty of God the first cause of all things be directly or indirectly.
It's not God in needing of change or work but we His creation . God causes us to think about what we think do and say with all the emotions that play out with each and every new thought and action we choose.
And so our journey begins on discovering how wretched we really are. God has and order of operation and in His order we all start at the bottom. Pretty cool but not very fun.
God bless.
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Thank you for the clarification, Rick! Now I understand your point.
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pg-91 -
George -
I would just like to share some things about my life and maybe you could give some useful remarks about it. I'm 25 now, and have been struggling with depression and guilt for about 6 years. As I already wrote in an other topic I have a lot of regrets regarding my behaviour to my brother (who died in cancer) and my classmate (who died in an accident/suicide). I thought over these mistakes again and again and I'm very angry and disappointed with myself.
I have a sister who says she does not do depression, and I know of a sweet lady who is still suffering from depression - which started from a single unresolved issue.
If it were me, I would put my burden on Jesus Christ, as He has asked us to do so - and ask Him for the solution to my depression.
It may be that Jesus by The Holy Spirit will take you back to the original source of your depression, and confirm the root cause - and give you your remedy to be released from this.
I used to be fearful of certain situations; but once I learnt that perfect love casteth out fear, I put my burden to Jesus - and he walked me through the root cause of my fear and showed me His solution to it, and I no longer fear what I once did.
The short answer is that His Perfect Love in you casteth out fear (and if depression is not an attribute of love, it must be hooked to fear).
I hope this helps a little.
Kind Regards.
George
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Hi George:
You have stated that "I THOUGHT over these mistakes again and again and I'm very angry and disappointed with myself". This is one of the schemes of the devil, our enemy! "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" (2 Corinthians 2:11).
Here is the solution from the Bible: "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every THOUGHT to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5).
Try to keep in mind that the devil places those same THOUGHTS from the past in our minds, over and over, to try and bring us down, and start practicing rejecting those negative THOUGHTS, in Jesus Name. We are in a spiritual battle.
God Bless
Dean
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1. AwesomeSavior -
Good Awesome Post:
Hi George:
You have stated that "I THOUGHT over these mistakes again and again and I'm very angry and disappointed with myself". This is one of the schemes of the devil, our enemy! "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" (2 Corinthians 2:11).
Here is the solution from the Bible: "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every THOUGHT to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5).
Try to keep in mind that the devil places those same THOUGHTS from the past in our minds, over and over, to try and bring us down, and start practicing rejecting those negative THOUGHTS, in Jesus Name. We are in a spiritual battle.
God Bless
Dean
2. AwesomeSavior / George -
I am not sure that the devil can actually place thoughts into our minds - but I believe most of us accept that the battleground is in our minds, as I believe this is the place we all actually live - and I am not too sure that we all know exactly what our hearts and minds really are - as we can monitor the desires in our hearts, and we can examine the thoughts in our minds - and it gets complicated to understand, as if we can monitor these desires in our hearts and examine these thoughts in our minds, are these desires and these thoughts actually ours - or do they become ours only once we accept them as ours - then if we reject them, were they ours to begin with - perhaps, we are to 'try' as in 'trial or test' these desires in our hearts and these thoughts in our minds, in order to ascertain if they be in line with His Word, in order to ensure they are pure and right and acceptable to Our Heavenly Father.
If so, perhaps, these desires and thoughts are actually presented to us by Our Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son, as part of His Purification process for each and every one of us, in becoming more and more Like Him. Remember our old carnal man must continually die so our new spiritual man may continually live, on a daily basis; and perhaps these thoughts are the means for this to happen, one bit at a time, each day of our renewed lives.
I have tried to clearly point out what I understand actually happens in our innermost being, and in our hearts and in our minds.
I know this is a very complex subject for all of us to understand, and get our minds around; and I do not pretend to fully understand the complexities of our being.
I hope this helps a little.
George
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Dear Dean and George,
Thank you for your advices and thoughts. Here is the solution from the Bible: "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every THOUGHT to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5).
Try to keep in mind that the devil places those same THOUGHTS from the past in our minds, over and over, to try and bring us down, and start practicing rejecting those negative THOUGHTS, in Jesus Name. We are in a spiritual battle.
and I am not sure that the devil can actually place thoughts into our minds - but I believe most of us accept that the battleground is in our minds, as I believe this is the place we all actually live - and I am not too sure that we all know exactly what our hearts and minds really are - as we can monitor the desires in our hearts, and we can examine the thoughts in our minds - and it gets complicated to understand, as if we can monitor these desires in our hearts and examine these thoughts in our minds, are these desires and these thoughts actually ours - or do they become ours only once we accept them as ours - then if we reject them, were they ours to begin with - perhaps, we are to 'try' as in 'trial or test' these desires in our hearts and these thoughts in our minds, in order to ascertain if they be in line with His Word, in order to ensure they are pure and right and acceptable to Our Heavenly Father.
These things which you mentioned here make me wonder a lot. There are thoughts like lusting after women, be angry at someone, try or not to try to cheat with the expensive tickets of the public transport, etc. Of course I'm not happy with these thoughts, but in a way I feel these are "normal" and egosyntonic and then its possible to "bringing into captivity" . In the last couple of years, as I said I have this OCD with crazy intrusive thoughts. I hope you don't know much about this condition, but it just questions everything about me and could make me feel guilty about anything at anytime. I've read it a lot of times, that we are not our thoughts. The thing which you mentioned, George , is also interesting, that are these toughts actually ours, when we can at the same time examine them also?
I agree that this is a very difficult topic and would appreciate any further insights,opinions on this, also.
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pg-91 -
Hello again.
Regarding your post below:
These things which you mentioned here make me wonder a lot. There are thoughts like lusting after women, be angry at someone, try or not to try to cheat with the expensive tickets of the public transport, etc. Of course I'm not happy with these thoughts, but in a way I feel these are "normal" and egosyntonic and then its possible to "bringing into captivity" . In the last couple of years, as I said I have this OCD with crazy intrusive thoughts. I hope you don't know much about this condition, but it just questions everything about me and could make me feel guilty about anything at anytime. I've read it a lot of times, that we are not our thoughts. The thing which you mentioned, George , is also interesting, that are these toughts actually ours, when we can at the same time examine them also?
I agree that this is a very difficult topic and would appreciate any further insights,opinions on this, also.
May I suggest that you make a one to one declaration to Our Heavenly Father, using your own words from your heart and mind, based on something like the following:
'Farther, in Jesus' Name, I am deeply troubled about the thoughts that keep coming into my mind. I know that you have confirmed in your word that "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every THOUGHT to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5)." - and I am struggling how I may best do this for me. I know that imagination is not real, but I have a problem distancing myself from these thoughts that come into my mind. I most certainly do not want to entertain these thoughts. Please confirm what I must and need to do. Is it just a question of speaking to these thoughts and telling them that they are not my thoughts and to depart from me? And do I need to keep doing this until such time, as they can no longer enter into my mind? Thank you for giving me Life and this Renewed Life in Your Holy Spirit, and please always keep me in your Rest (which includes Your Love, Peace and Joy of Heart). Your Obedient Servant and Adopted Son pg-91.'
Please pray about this, and if you are burdened by His Holy Spirit within you, The Spirit will give you the words you need to become free of this particular issue in your life.
Remember, If He has Set you Free you are Free indeed.
I have prayed for you that His Holy Spirit will overwhelm you with His Fathership, Sonship and Grace.
Very Kind Regards.
George
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There are many indications in Scripture that Satan does indeed influences our minds... I mean Satan is invisible how else does he tempt/sway people into sinning or as with Judas "put it into the heart"?
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray Him,
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
1Cor 7:5 Do not withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so just for a set time, in order to devote yourselves to prayer. Then you should come together again so that Satan does not tempt you through your lack of self-control.
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
1John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
Mark 4:15 Some people are like the seeds along the path, where the word is sown. When they hear it, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
2Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
How does Satan take away what somebody believes? Isn't it by replacing those good thoughts and bringing to mind deceptions/lies? isn't that how Satan "walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour," with deception? Satan is very clever and just as he cunningly influenced Eve to sin, he also knows just how to use our weaknesses and faults against us.
We have to overcome Satan just as Jesus did in the wilderness and "thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Cor 15:57). We also have great comfort in these Scripture that through Christ we certainly will overcome this world and it's prince/ruler (Eph 2:2; John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11).
1John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
v. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
v. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
1John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Kat -
Thank you for this Post. You are always very helpful.
There are many indications in Scripture that Satan does indeed influences our minds... I mean Satan is invisible how else does he tempt/sway people into sinning or as with Judas "put it into the heart"?
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray Him,
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
1Cor 7:5 Do not withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so just for a set time, in order to devote yourselves to prayer. Then you should come together again so that Satan does not tempt you through your lack of self-control.
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
1John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
Mark 4:15 Some people are like the seeds along the path, where the word is sown. When they hear it, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
2Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
How does Satan take away what somebody believes? Isn't it by replacing those good thoughts and bringing to mind deceptions/lies? isn't that how Satan "walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour," with deception? Satan is very clever and just as he cunningly influenced Eve to sin, he also knows just how to use our weaknesses and faults against us.
We have to overcome Satan just as Jesus did in the wilderness and "thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Cor 15:57). We also have great comfort in these Scripture that through Christ we certainly will overcome this world and it's prince/ruler (Eph 2:2; John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11).
1John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
v. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
v. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
1John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Regarding the underlined above, please note the following:
1. Were these Scriptures referring to a man or woman begotten by His Holy Spirit, or were they carnal men and women.
2. As New Creations in Christ, are we no different than when we were yet carnally minded.
I may be wrong, but I believe, that once His Elect are dragged out of the world and their carnally mindedness, He gives us a new heart and we start to renew our minds into the mind of Christ.
If I am wrong, please forgive me, but I am also going by my own personal advancements in my own heart and mind, and I do attest that He has truly given me a new heart of love and goodness, and he has continually renewed my own mind more and more into the Mind of Christ.
Kind Regards, and thank you for these wonderful Scriptures.
I think the key Scripture is this one you provided above:
1John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
Dare we who have been dragged from this wicked world, dare to believe it, and eat and drink it; so it is imparted into our own hearts and minds.
George
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Hi George, you make a valid point about that those might not be actually speaking of the elect, and that Scripture is very clear in all translations as to what it says "the wicked one does not touch him."
1John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born (begotten) of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
So if this is an absolute truth there has to be a second witness in Scripture to it, I have been searching and I think I finally found it.
2Thess 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.
And here are a couple more that indicate the same thing.
John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
Psa 97:10 You who love the LORD, hate evil! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Kat -
Thank you so much.
Absolutely Wonderful and Brilliant.
I love these Scriptures you provide below:
Hi George, you make a valid point about that those might not be actually speaking of the elect, and that Scripture is very clear in all translations as to what it says "the wicked one does not touch him."
1John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born (begotten) of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
So if this is an absolute truth there has to be a second witness in Scripture to it, I have been searching and I think I finally found it.
2Thess 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.
And here are a couple more that indicate the same thing.
John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
Psa 97:10 You who love the LORD, hate evil! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
He sure is Awesome.
You Serve Him Very well Kat.
Kind Regards.
George
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I don't think there is a one of 'us' that has been begotten of God, yet. There is only One begotten of God, to be first among many brethren...but not yet.
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Dave, I think you must mean we are not 'born' yet?
1John 5:18 We are aware that everyone who has been begotten of God is not sinning, but he who is begotten of God is keeping himself, and the wicked one is not touching him." (CLV)
Concern Christ as the "only begotten Son," was true that when God sent Him into the world as flesh and blood to die He was His only begotten at that time.
1John 4:9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
Here are a couple of emails to give us all a refresher on this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1859.0.html --------------
When it says "spiritual" it does not mean "physical."
Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD [that's natural; that's physical] CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
Whereas John 3:3 in the King James says "born again," it would better translated "begotten anew from above."
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
In the Greek there is but one word for both "begotten and born." Only the context can separate the proper use. At present the Elect Saints of God have only the "earnest" of our full spiritual birth into His Kingdom: "...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of PROMISE [a promise of a future fulfilment] Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4452.msg34236.html#msg34236 -----
Hey Ray,
I am listening to your sermons on the Origins of Jesus as I write. But something caught my ear that I hope you can clear up. You stated something along the lines that we will not be adopted into the family of God as the Angels were, but that we will be begotten and that that is a far more intimate relationship with God. Can you then please explain the following scriptures?
Romans 8:15 “For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”
Romans 8:23 “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”
Galatians 4:5 “To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
Ephesians 1:5 “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will”
Strong’s dictionary does not give any alternate definitions for the Greek. I of course am not refuting your statements but maybe I misunderstand you. My understanding is that to be “begotten” is quite different from being “adopted.” Thanks for your time.Roy
Dear Roy: Yes, Strong's does give an alternate to "adoption" for the word "unibotheia," and in fact the "alternate" is his FIRST definition is "the PLACING OF A SON...SONSHIP."
Webster's New Twenteth Century Dictionary Unabridged:"sonship"--"the STATE OF BEING A SON"
Romans 8:15....
"But you have received a spirit of SONSHIP" (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible)
"...but a Spirit which makes us SONS" (The New English Bible)
"...you have received the Spirit of SONSHIP" (Moffatt Translation)
"...you received the Spirit of SONSHIP" (New International Version)
"...but you received a Spirit of SONSHIP" (Emphatic Diaglott).
"...but you got the spirit of SONSHIP" (Concordant Literal New Testament) Etc.
We are not merely adopted into the Family of God, but rather God has "BEGOTTEN us" [Gk: 'beget, be born--regenerate']" (I Pet. 1:3). And: "Being BORN AGAIN [same Greek word], not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God..." (Verse 23).
No, our final destination is to be BORN into the Kingdom of God, not just an "adoption." Some bibles do not ever use the word "adoption." Even if we were to accept these Scriptures as "adoption," we still have the added knowledge that we are to be BORN into the Kingdom of God.
We are all "called," but is that our final destiny? No, there is also (in addition to the called) those called ones who are CHOSEN, and even among the chosen, there must be the FAITHFUL (Rev.17:14). Judas was called and chosen, but he was NOT FAITHFUL UNTIL THE END!!
Hope this helps your understanding.
God be with you,
Ray
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1Jn 5:18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him;
1Jn 5:19 we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie; YLT
Yes, I certainly mean that we are not "born yet". I'd like to be able to find the places where Ray taught on the differences of meaning from the Greek word most often translated as begotten. From my brief study, this not only includes "conception" and "birth" but "engendering" (of a thing or an idea), which makes it less "literal".
But I'm stuck with:
1Jn 1:8 If we should be saying that we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1Jn 1:9 If we should be avowing our sins, He is faithful and just that He may be pardoning us our sins and should be cleansing us from all injustice."
1Jn 1:10 If we should be saying that we have not sinned, we are making Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
Both of those passages are true, if properly understood and reconciled. From my experience, I relate MUCH MORE to 1John 1:8-10 than to 1John 5:18. It's possible:
1. that ...every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin...isn't talking about us--at least not yet.
or
2. that ...every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin...isn't talking about generic totality of "sin" but a more specific sin or set of sins.
or
3. Both, and/or something else altogether.
These statements appear in the same letter. Seems likely to me there is something in the intervening "verses" that bring the two together.
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Dave here are some Scripture for you to consider.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous [G1342 - equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous)].
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
Rom 5:21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1John 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
v. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
v. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born (begotten) of Him.
Col 3:2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
v. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
v. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
v.7 For he who has died ("baptized into His death" Rom 6:3) has been freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
Rom 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
v. 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
v. 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
v. 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Dear George,
May I suggest that you make a one to one declaration to Our Heavenly Father, using your own words from your heart and mind, based on something like the following:
'Farther, in Jesus' Name, I am deeply troubled about the thoughts that keep coming into my mind. I know that you have confirmed in your word that "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every THOUGHT to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5)." - and I am struggling how I may best do this for me. I know that imagination is not real, but I have a problem distancing myself from these thoughts that come into my mind. I most certainly do not want to entertain these thoughts. Please confirm what I must and need to do. Is it just a question of speaking to these thoughts and telling them that they are not my thoughts and to depart from me? And do I need to keep doing this until such time, as they can no longer enter into my mind? Thank you for giving me Life and this Renewed Life in Your Holy Spirit, and please always keep me in your Rest (which includes Your Love, Peace and Joy of Heart). Your Obedient Servant and Adopted Son pg-91.'
Please pray about this, and if you are burdened by His Holy Spirit within you, The Spirit will give you the words you need to become free of this particular issue in your life.
Remember, If He has Set you Free you are Free indeed.
Thank you for your helpful thoughts and prayer!
Dear Kat,
Thank you for your very detailed answers and providing a lot of Scriptures to meditate on.
1John 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
v. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
I have some difficulty to understand this. Should I link these verses to:
Rom 7:14-25
14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin.
15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing.
16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal.
17 Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me.
18 For I am aware that good is not making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for to will is lying beside me, yet to be effecting the ideal is not.
19 For it is not the good that I will that I am doing, but the evil that I am not willing, this I am putting into practice.
20 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin which is making its home in me.
21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me.
22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,
23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace!
25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God’s law, yet with the flesh for Sin’s law.
or: I sin and fail because I "literally" neither seen or known Him?
George
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1John 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
v. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous
That underlined is the key to understanding this thing of not sinning. It's certainly not the case that we literally will not sin, as it says in John "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1John 1:08). No we do sin as long as we are in the flesh, but if Christ's Spirit dwells in you and therefore you are in Him as well, then it is by His grace that we are redeemed by His sacrifice and our sins are covered and not counted against us.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says applies to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
v. 20 Therefore, God will not justify any human being by means of the actions prescribed by the Law, for through the Law comes the full knowledge of sin.
v. 21 But now, apart from the Law, God's righteousness is revealed and is attested by the Law and the Prophets—
v. 22 God's righteousness through the faithfulness of Jesus the Messiah—for all who believe (this faith God gives us, verse below). For there is no distinction among people,
v. 23 since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory.
v. 24 By His grace they are justified freely through the redemption that is in the Messiah Jesus, (ISV)
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Rom 4:7 "How blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered!
v. 8 How blessed is the person whose sins the Lord will never charge against him!"
2Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in the Messiah, he is a new creation. Old things have disappeared, and—look!—all things have become new!
v. 18 All of this comes from God, who has reconciled us to Himself through the Messiah and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
v. 19 for through the Messiah, God was reconciling the world (just the few chosen at this time) to Himself by not counting their sins against them. He has committed His message of reconciliation to us. (ISV)
Isa 44:22 I've wiped away your transgressions like a cloud and your sins like mist. Return to me; because I've redeemed you.
Acts 3:19 Therefore, repent and turn to Him to have your sins blotted out,
All of this is only if Christ is indwell and by His blood being applied to us are we set free from 'all' our sin (Rom 6:7, 18, 22).
1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Rom 5:9 Now that we have been justified by His blood, how much more will we be saved from wrath through Him!
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus the Messiah, the witness, the faithful one, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To the One who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood
v. 6 and has made us a kingdom, priests for His God and Father, be glory and power forever and ever! Amen.
mercy, peace and love
Kat