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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Wendy on April 15, 2024, 03:37:46 PM
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Hi everyone
I pray you are all well. I like to give a shout out to Dennis for the videos he’s been putting up for us. They’re very good very informative. Thanks for putting them out
God bless
Wendy
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Thank you Wendy - The part 3 of the beast should be posted tomorrow April 18th (I hope).
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Ah yes, fire from heaven. Praise God.
Thankyou Dennis, May God keep you doing His will. We love you.
In Christ, Pamela.
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Thank you Dennis. I've followed the Yt tunnel for a while now and must say it lands in differently. I was reminded of the literal "hearing" that I associated with producing faith while I was in Christendom. Not really sure if that's how it works though.
I never ever was able to read and study all of The Lake of fire series. Most of it required more faith than I thought I could muster at the time(nor ask our Lord for). I am being affected and transformed.
That's all I can say for now.
But, really; many many thanks to you for your faithfulness.
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I know this reply is a bit late, but you're right to wonder what it means to hear Matty. Everyone who calls Jesus Lord hears Him, but hardly anyone understands with their heart, due to God having hardened their hearts. I say that with the full understanding that God has had mercy on me after hardening my heart in the same way, but not through anything I did or didn't do. Where God takes it from there, I don't know. So it's with “fear and trembling” I work out my salvation.
I don't think it's necessary to understand or even read all of Ray's papers, as long as you understand that as a person thinks in his or her heart, that's what they are.
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Thank you so very much Porter. For "a word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in a setting of silver."
Question: Did you always know or feel when your heart was hardened? In retrospect; can you recall the process of falling away or disbelief.
Feel free to move this reply to another board as appropriate please, wouldn't want to be "new" and not follow the rules.
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I don't think I was ever aware of my heart being in that hardened state when I was still in the Church. I'm also not sure if I've ever fully identified the process of falling away. I think I just took it for granted that I did at one time leave my first love some twenty plus years ago.
Looking back, I can now see the straw that broke the camel's back. It was just one miserable disappointment after another in God for not healing me of my sins despite my desperate cries. To worsen it, all those in the congregation were acting crazy. Casting out demons, falling to the ground, speaking tongues of gibberish, praying out loud, dancing, singing, laughing, eating and drinking all for show. I took part in some of that craziness, but it felt so disingenuous and none of it was helping, so I left.
There I was one day not long after I left the Church, laying in bed without God, without a foundation, contemplating suicide. I asked God why He created me knowing full well in advance that I would not and could not repent. I asked Him why He would send me to hell for something out of my control especially if He knew I would fail. I told Him how unfair that was and if hell is where I'm meant to be because He wouldn't save me, then hell is where I want to go. I resigned myself to eternal torture, I gave up on God at that moment because in my mind, He failed me. It seemed He didn't care. I was so mad at God, I hated Him and let Him know by cursing Him. I didn't want anything more to do with God.
I don't remember much in the years between that falling away event and finding bible-truths.com, but when I did find it, my hope in God was renewed. It hasn't gotten easier, but at least now I have a foundation, and I know God is good and just, no matter what happens.
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You wouldn't have to change too many details to make my story line up with yours. My church wasn't nearly so "charismatic", but no less carnal. The rest is pretty much identical. I thank God for bringing me in. I thank Him for bringing me out.
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I thank God for bringing me in. I thank Him for bringing me out.
There's a new song if I've ever heard one, Dave. Remember when you asked if something was holy? Yes, it's holy because it's true, it's also honest, and lovely, it's just, it's pure, and it's of a good report with an A+ signed by Jesus. I think of that all the time.
I have a question: Do you or anyone else know if falling from grace and leaving your first love can be more subtle, where it might be a bit more difficult to identify? It's difficult to imagine a fall that great would go unnoticed by the believer. In all fairness, I didn't know until I looked back and all the memories of it came flooding in. In my case, it was relatively easy to see after thinking about if for a few minutes, but has it been harder to pinpoint for anyone else? There's no right or wrong answers, I'm just very curious.
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Porter, I think I can say that in many ways I began "leaving my first love and falling away" not long after I began my
"christian life". That didn't mean I lost enthusiasm or interest. If anything, those grew the further I went. But both the means and the ends of my "walk" was carnal. That process was maybe "subtle" and not recognized until I "looked back". Like you said, by the time I had made a more distinct "decision" to walk away, I certainly did not see myself as one of the good guys. Far from it. I saw myself (and was) a miserable failure at "christian living".
Though I was becoming increasingly aware of the twisted contradictions inherent in christian doctrine, and of hypocrisies large and small in "the church" the primary motivation in my own mind for walking away was my own failings. It made sense to me that, if I was to avoid hypocrisy, it would be better if I no longer made any claim to or effort towards "righteousness". I sucked at it.
What really was absolutely NOT subtle was the looking back when I came to believe and seeing the Hand of Sovereign God in absolutely all of it. I think what preceded that revelation--decades of it--was the "building of the house on sand" and the revelation and it's effects was the actual fall, or at least the major completion of the fall. I had absolutely no idea that the "coming out of her" was a commandment I'd "obeyed" without even knowing it was a commandment. We are HIS workmanship. He is the potter, we are the clay.
Did I cover your question?
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That does cover my question, thanks. Furthermore, a special thanks for showing me the verse to “come out of her” in a different light. I thought it of it as more of a plea, but now I see how stupid that would be.
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I had absolutely no idea that the "coming out of her" was a commandment I'd "obeyed" without even knowing it was a commandment. We are HIS workmanship. He is the potter, we are the clay.
What a good point to emphasize that the "coming out of her" is a commandment and as Porter had mentioned NOT a plea. For whom God has chosen or commanded to "come out of her" will definitely come out. :)
John 15:16 - You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide..."
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Matt.4:19… and He said to them,” follow Me…….a command.
John 10:4…. When He has brought out all His own, He goes before them,
and the sheep follow Him, for they know His voice.
John 10:27…. My sheep hear My voice and i know them, and they follow Me.
John 10:5… a stranger they will not follow……
Rev.14:4… It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins, it is these who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb.
These sheep were born to obey the shepherds commands. :)
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It's been a rough night, but I just wanted to say that you are all are some “beautiful feet” ;D
Isa 52:6 Therefore My people shall know what My name is and what it means; therefore they shall know in that day that I am He who speaks; behold, I AM!
Isa 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good tidings, who publishes peace, who brings good tidings of good, who publishes salvation, who says to Zion, Your God reigns!
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I posted the last part of "The Beast Within" #3 this morning. A very profound article.
Part 1: https://youtu.be/aWndbfn8IMU (https://youtu.be/aWndbfn8IMU)
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I thank God for bringing me in. I thank Him for bringing me out.
Do you or anyone else know if falling from grace and leaving your first love can be more subtle, where it might be a bit more difficult to identify?
It was pretty subtle for me. I didn't actually realize I had fallen away until I was brought back and "looked back" as Ray would say.
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Hello all.
Another ⁉️
So, I listened to The Beast within YouTube audios, while also trying to keep up with the reading. I noticed that Ray taught about the very elect falling away, having their house built on sand exposed. The apostle Paul alludes to this many times in his letters(epistles), John in Revelations clearly experienced it too.
My humble question is this; once you know in your heart of hearts that you truly have fallen away/had the beast exposed, is it realistic or helpful to begin from whence you fell? I'm finding that I relate more to the milk(foundational truths) than the meat of God's Truths- although I still strangely recall(carnally) how pleasant the meat tastes. Naturally I went straight for the meat once I felt my house crashed down.
All scriptural views will be appreciated.
P.S. The falling away is far harder than 'coming out of her', in my experience. Don't wish it on anyone though it'll probably reach us all.
Many thanks again and Blessings,
Matty
Dennis, I was always surprised that material from B-T was ever accepted on internet platforms. Thank you for persevering and handling their push backs with the maturity and dignity I can only hope I had an ounce of.
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What do you consider "meat" in the context of your question?
Once the "house built on sand" has fallen, there is only one foundation fit to build on. And it isn't sand.
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Meat is what I consider intermediary to solid "food". Milk is like what's fed to babes. Babes in Christ.
The prodigal son just wanted to come back a servant, not even a long lost son, His Father thought and acted.
otherwise.
Going back to the basics.
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I'm still not sure I understand the question. Honestly, I've wondered about this very thing from the first time I made a more conscious decision to participate in this forum. Just what do folks consider "milk", or "solid food", or the "rudiments of the beginning of the Word of God"? I even asked the question years ago, but don't recall an answer that satisfied me.
You asked for a scriptural answer. This is I think the best of the translations I have in ESword. (Please don't leave out the first parts of the chapter that lead up to these.)
LITV Heb 5:12-14 For indeed because of the time you are due to be teachers, yet you need to have someone to teach you again the rudiments of the beginning of the Words of God, and you came to be having need of milk, and not of solid food; for everyone partaking of milk is without experience in the Word of Righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for those full grown, having exercised the faculties through habit, for distinction of both good and bad.
"Partaking of milk" is done because one is an infant. "Infancy" is characterized by being "without experience" in the Word of Righteousness. Solid food is for those WITH experience, then...right? Full grown, having strengthened abilities through practice, for the ability to distinguish both good and bad--not simply the "difference between good and bad", but good and bad itself/themselves. Remember the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? One fruit. We all eat it.
If I may reflect for a moment. There have been a lot of people come through this forum who seem to me to have failed to go on to being full grown. The ones that have made me the saddest are those who seem to have come to believe that their own "experience" pales to insignificance next to the pursuit of some theological bauble, or worldly curiosity, or "yet having need to have someone to teach them again". I'm not calling anybody out--because firstly I know that He is able to complete in everybody what He has started (indeed ONLY He is able), and secondly I ain't done yet either.
But I do wish they had a better idea of what "solid food" was and that many of them might remember that they have tasted it, even if they have returned to a more "milk-based" diet.
I'll finish with this. Since we are "HERE" and I'm not typing out to the whole word, I have what I think is a wise suggestion. Dig into the emails. They are full of "milky" questions. If you can answer them in a manner approaching the way Ray did, I'm willing to call you moving into "full-grown", without too much need of someone to teach you the rudiments, and no longer a babbling babe. And if you can answer from your own God-caused experience, even if you can't quote chapter and verse, then you're pretty much ready for anything, I think.
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There are comments on the recent YouTube 'Beast' videos where they say something like "I read it years ago but this is the first time I really understand it." No one is going to really understand and believe until it's their time to understand, which may be never (in this life).
I have to admit I too learned a few things listening to those videos.
As Ray said: "You can shine the sun on it and they still just cannot see it."
However, there are some that left this forum for many years only to return.
Again, you can try with all your might but if it's not yet your time you're not going to get it until it is your time in this life or the next life. But keep trying.
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Again, you can try with all your might but if it's not yet your time you're not going to get it until it is your time in this life or the next life.
That was certainly my experience. I was taught that I had to tithe and I both believed it and taught others that and then when reading Ray's paper on tithing I wanted to argue against it but couldn't. Started to read the LOF series and got part ways down chapter one and when Ray said there was no 'hell' I thought him to be a heretic as Jesus clearly taught about hell in the gospels (bit of a conundrum the gospels being 'good news' and yet Jesus is threatening his disciples with this hell) and I left the website.
Came back about six months later and the rest was history and I began to understand. What was the difference between the first time and the second time? The first time the seed was planted and the second it was in God's timing for me to begin to understand.
Reminds me about the disciples being with Jesus for three years and yet none of them understood the scriptures. Being with him, watching his miracles, eating and sleeping with him and being immersed with his presence and they still didn't understand. It wasn't until after the resurrection that he opened their minds to understand;
Luk 24:44-45 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
When it's God's time we understand and until it's God's time we won't. Pretty simple but hard for us to accept.
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From the Myth of Free Will
Concordant Literal Old Testament
( ECC.3:11)…..’ He (God) has made everything fitting ( not beautiful) in its season;
However , He has put OBSCURITY in their hearts so that the man may NOT find
out His work, that which God does.
So God made everything that there is, even though much of it is evil, ugly and NOT
beautiful. Fitting , proper, appropriate and suited for its own season, but or however -
here comes a counter proposal if you will. So God makes EVERYTHING proper and
appropriate for His plan, however…… BUT ,….HE has put OBSCURITY in their hearts…
so that, or in order, that they CANNOT know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call life. What a Spiritual Revelation.
We have hundreds of Scriptures that verify that God does do according to His plan
and intention, always and everywhere, but there are few verses as this verse which
tells us specifically how He had HID ( concealed, obscured) this marvellous operation
from the eyes of carnal humanity as this verse does.
But Jesus Christ can set us free from the carnal mind, and give us Spiritual
discernment and increase our knowledge, and make us wise so that we can understand. Here than is the revelation of a major mystery.
God uses mankind with his obscured heart to do all of His intentions without
mankind ever consciously knowing that God is working His purpose through them—
so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to the end.
All caps Rays
ECC. 12:14…. For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret
( concealed) thing whether it be good or whether it be evil.
Come Lord Jesus
In Christ, Pamela
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Dennis, arion, Pamela--that sounds like solid food to me.
Col 1:16,17 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created, and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
All of everything is in Him, by Him, through Him and FOR Him.
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Dennis, arion, Pamela--that sounds like solid food to me.
Col 1:16,17 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created, and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
All of everything is in Him, by Him, through Him and FOR Him.
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Thanks Dave, and to be clear the person being spoken of in Col 1 is the Lord Jesus, the son of the great GOD. Am I correct?
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Col 1:12-15 Giving thanks to the Father who did make us meet for the participation of the inheritance of the saints in the light, who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate us into the reign of the Son of His love, in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins, who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation...
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Thank you Dave. I read and re-read your post several times to make sure I wasn't missing anything, I will heed your advise. Thank you Dennis, I've often found trying can be futile but I will do what I can by the grace of our Lord. Thank you Pamela, the myth of free will was one of the easiest for me to grasp and believe, perhaps because even from way back I'd try to be a good Christian and fail miserably, until I let go and started seeing God's hand working in me both to will and to do. Appreciate everything Arion.
I took my time to respond because I wanted to express my heartfelt gratitude without sounding too eager to have a word in. Thank you all.
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I am inspired to say that the milk is the physical , as in the OT law of Moses.
And the solid food is the Spiritual as in the NT law of Christ.
My journey coming to Bible- truths was a nightmare. There was nothing subtle
about it. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And now I
Thank God for His will in my life and the lives of all humanity. Thy will be done.
Not this belief in free will to thwart the very will of of God.
Hang in there everyone. God didn’t raise up no pansies. ;D
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I am inspired to say that the milk is the physical , as in the OT law of Moses.
And the solid food is the Spiritual as in the NT law of Christ.
My journey coming to Bible- truths was a nightmare. There was nothing subtle
about it. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And now I
Thank God for His will in my life and the lives of all humanity. Thy will be done.
Not this belief in free will to thwart the very will of of God.
Hang in there everyone. God didn’t raise up no pansies. ;D
Loved your comments here Pamela we all need the indwelling of God's spirit to strengthen us for the journey. Regards, indiana Bob heading for 90! Then 100, Then 1,000 :D
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Heading for 90, then 100 then 1000.
I love your comment too, Eugene.
May God continue blessing you.