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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: chuckusa on September 26, 2006, 02:12:58 PM
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Hello all,
Lately, something has been occuring in my life that I don't understand.
I have been experiencing JOY.
This feeling only lasts a second or two, intense, profound and very clear...then it fades away, leaving me again in what I call my natural state. In most cases a very long sigh escapes me as I realize once again, that it was just another fleeting moment of joy. I've even labeled it, such is its presense in my life now.
During these moments, it is as if I am seeing the world through different eyes. I feel young again, almost like a teenagers body but yet with the wisdom of my experience behind it...an incredible purpose surging through my veins, a happiness beyond words...as if I could fly. Love seems to become the very fabric of existence, all is good, all is as it should be, all is forgiven, I am free, I have purpose, I have LIFE.
And then it is gone.
What follows is dread. Dread that I will never experience those moments again. That it is simply a mirage... that such a state doesn't exist. The contrast between those moments and my normal life is incredibly profound and depressing. I haven't been happy for a long time, despite my best efforts...I feel empty inside most of the time. These moments only make it worse.
I am very confused as to why God would show me this state. It only makes me feel more like giving up, it doesn't energize me, or encourage me, or seem to be leading me in any direction. It simply seems like just another thing that I will never have. That once again, I've been left out of something wonderful...like I am looking through the glass, but not being invited in.
I do realize all the good things that God has given me. It's not as if I don't realize that...but these feelings of JOY are incredible...like no other feeling I have ever had. I feel as if I want to scream at the top of my lungs, to shout as loud as I can that I can LOVE, that I can FEEL, that I can SEE...but I am so taken by suprise each time it happens, that only my mind responds with a racing stream of thoughts of how now, armed with this incredible feeling, that I am going to LIVE my life THROUGH this, and for this, and by this...how NOW...I can take on anything, that I will never fail again.
But then, like I said...it falls away. Leaving me...to myself. That is beyond depressing.
To be honest, it feels like he is trying to prepare me for something. As if the damn is about to break. Each time it feels so much like that, as if I need to prepare...but for what? And How?
If anyone feels like they understand what I am going through, would you please pray for me. I only want to understand what God is trying to tell me.
Maybe I am finally really going crazy.
Your brother,
Chuck
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Chuck,
You are not going crazy, that's for sure. I spent 100% of the time I can remember growing up and until I was 24 or so being tied in knots, anxious, and unhappy. I rarely was happy and when I was it felt frantic and almost fake. Then, everything changed. God talked to my heart and I felt joy, like what you are describing for the first time in my life. And like you, it was only there for a second and came and went (and still does) and I wanted it to go on forever and would get upset when it was taken away. The contrast made the rest of life seem dull and lifeless in comparison.
I've thought about this a lot over the years. It was so bothersome to me. The conclusion I came to: it's a dim little taste of what it'll be like for us when He completes His work. We can't imagine the joy and happiness and love we will experience when we're with Him in the end.....
Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." Revelation 7:16-17
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." Revelation 21:3-5
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.".....The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. Revelation 22:1-7,17
It's been like that for about 10 years now. I know I am young and fanciful, but the coming and going of these flashes of overwhelming joy quit bothering me when I started thinking of them as kisses from God. Like kisses, they are often quick...but they also I think are given out of love. When I started thinking of them that way, then the bouts in between that had been depressing became more bearable. The memories and anticipation of these little unexpected kisses from God make me smile. And, when I look at myself now, I feel a bit of this all the time. Not the peak for sure (which I don't think I could really bear for long anyway), but more of a quiet contentment and just general good humor. I find myself smiling for no reason, even when I'm having a bad day. I thought for awhile I was daft. I think it may be God's way of strengthening you and expressing love....my opinion. I hope that this helps; I think they are meant to give comfort and hope. He loves you so much my brother.
Love to you in Christ,
mongoose
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Brother Chuck,
What you've shared is exactally what I've been feeling also. The last time I felt a "fleeting moment of joy" is when you PMed me with your encouraging words. When I experience those moments I stop whatever I'm doing and close my eyes and surrender to that moment. Praise begins to flow out of my mouth for my Lord. It's like a rush of pure clean love from above. And then just like you said, it's gone.... and I'm back to my feelings of dispare and helplessness. I too have been on the edge of just giving up and laying down and waiting for death to relieve me of the pain, frustration, anger, and depression.
I think you are on to something though when you said that God might be preparing you for something wonderful. I've had that same idea also.
I feel that when God chooses someone he first chastens and breaks the person in order to mold and shape him/her into His new creation. The clay has to be kneaded and squeezed and beaten in order to make it plyable to be workable in the Potter's hands. This hope that something good is about to happen is the only thing keeping me going, also the grace of God "keeping" me. Without those things, I would surely fall away.
I'm praying for you brother,, please pray for me too.
Love,
Andy
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Chuck, I understand what you are going through.
I don't have the answer you are looking for, my brother. But if it's any consolation, you are not alone.
Matt. 11:29; Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
II Peter 1: 2-10; if you do these things you shall never fall.
Jude 24-25; Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy. To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen
These Scriptures really help me in times such as now.
Thanks to Ray for the study notes from the conference.
I'll be praying for you and please pray for me also.
Patrick
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The trials of our faith give us HOPE.
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Boy, I can't wait to experience the joy that will never end.
Brian
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Hello all,
Thank you for those kind words of encouragement. It seems that this "phenomenon" takes many forms...wow.
Just writing that out seems to have lifted a load off of my shoulders, and knowing that someone understands means a lot. This JOY is not something that so far, has helped me, and I have been thinking further about it.
I am wondering if it is so fleeting because of ME. Am I reacting to this with the same heart and mind each time, and because of that, I am nullifying it in some way? I don't want to sound at all "mystical" about this, but maybe I am the problem. If I were to look at this, more for what it really is, instead of what I want it to be...then maybe it would manifest in a different way. Does that make any sense?
Bobby, I'm glad I DID start this if it's been on your mind also. Thank you all for your prayers, and for your support. I pray that we all get comfort from this understanding fellowship.
Love,
chuck
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Chuck, I have on and off felt such JOY for God that my heart actually skips a beat and feels like it will burst right out of my chest. Usually this happens when I'm alone meditating or singing songs of praise (actually, most times in my car driving to/from work). And yes, what a wonderful feeling it is, but true, it doesn't last long.
J[/size][/color]ESUS
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We are carnal and sinful by nature, what if we put Jesus first ALWAYS, then others, then ourselves? There's pure joy to be had in that scenario. But we can't do that always can we? We can strive for it.
What does Jesus want from us? Are we doing it? Always?
Just some thoughts of mine.
Bless you brother, you are sure not alone.
Love,
Marie
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chuck,
i echo ur statements bro. i have been on a roller coaster ride spiritually and have been telling Mongoose who has been of help in trying to keep me sane. mybe with U its a feeling of emptyness but with me it will even turn as ugly as feeling of hatred. i would hate to hear some1 mention scriptures, i'd feel like being alone and living by my self. in that moment i will definately think evil is taking over but His luv has been a greatest miracle that kept my mouth shut and not saying anything to insult His name. i feel U brother. am feeling like that Today and am feeling defensive as well. will be praying for U. like some1 said "if its any consolation to U, U R not alone"
am so impressed with the way U expresses urself, that is how i would like to tell people so that they can bear with me in such days. somethings happen for a reason.
shoane
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Hello all,
I thought I was being fanciful after the event, sure that my mind was playing tricks on me. It always seems to happen to me when God has revealed himself to me in a way that surprises me, when I least expect it. Whatever it is that has been causing me a dilema, suddenly all slots into place, in a way I'd never imagined, words fail me at those moments and the clarity is startling. To me it's the promise of what's to come, what we want for everyone. There would be no more ugliness or wars in the world if everyone felt like that all the time. It reminds me that every single struggling step, is a step in the right direction. It more than makes up for the 'dead' times in between.
Angie
x
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Hello all,
I'm so glad to see that others are getting something positive from these occurences. I myself, do not...yet.
Thanks everyone for sharing your similar experiences, I don't understand, but I do feel a lot better. I've considered hormones, drug flashbacks and mental illness as possible causes, but now I see that this is something much deeper. I suppose its good that it doesn't last because I am sure that I would explode from happiness, were it to continue very long... :)
Thanks everyone, I love you all.
Chuck
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Hello all,
Lately, something has been occuring in my life that I don't understand.
I have been experiencing JOY.
This feeling only lasts a second or two, intense, profound and very clear...then it fades away, leaving me again in what I call my natural state. In most cases a very long sigh escapes me as I realize once again, that it was just another fleeting moment of joy. I've even labeled it, such is its presense in my life now.
During these moments, it is as if I am seeing the world through different eyes. I feel young again, almost like a teenagers body but yet with the wisdom of my experience behind it...an incredible purpose surging through my veins, a happiness beyond words...as if I could fly. Love seems to become the very fabric of existence, all is good, all is as it should be, all is forgiven, I am free, I have purpose, I have LIFE.
And then it is gone.
What follows is dread. Dread that I will never experience those moments again. That it is simply a mirage... that such a state doesn't exist. The contrast between those moments and my normal life is incredibly profound and depressing. I haven't been happy for a long time, despite my best efforts...I feel empty inside most of the time. These moments only make it worse.
I am very confused as to why God would show me this state. It only makes me feel more like giving up, it doesn't energize me, or encourage me, or seem to be leading me in any direction. It simply seems like just another thing that I will never have. That once again, I've been left out of something wonderful...like I am looking through the glass, but not being invited in.
I do realize all the good things that God has given me. It's not as if I don't realize that...but these feelings of JOY are incredible...like no other feeling I have ever had. I feel as if I want to scream at the top of my lungs, to shout as loud as I can that I can LOVE, that I can FEEL, that I can SEE...but I am so taken by suprise each time it happens, that only my mind responds with a racing stream of thoughts of how now, armed with this incredible feeling, that I am going to LIVE my life THROUGH this, and for this, and by this...how NOW...I can take on anything, that I will never fail again.
But then, like I said...it falls away. Leaving me...to myself. That is beyond depressing.
To be honest, it feels like he is trying to prepare me for something. As if the damn is about to break. Each time it feels so much like that, as if I need to prepare...but for what? And How?
If anyone feels like they understand what I am going through, would you please pray for me. I only want to understand what God is trying to tell me.
Maybe I am finally really going crazy.
Your brother,
Chuck
Hi Chuck,
I originally posted this in Gary's poll/thread but this seems to fit just as well here. By the way I do not think you are going crazy,
I wanted to say that although I have yet to have that "third heaven" experience, I have had fleeting moments of clarity where the Word becomes so very much alive in me, to the point where I will be in a transfixed state of mind I can't put into words. A moment of understanding that is so crystal clear, timeless and of a pure love that I can only really faintly describe it because I can't even pull up a clear detailed memory of it. I always say when I experience this that I am going to write this down, share it with the brethren here in the forum..............then it fades.
It does not crash but it disspates like a mist in the morning sun and just as impossible to grasp and hold on to, I do know it will return as it has in the past, but I never know when or where.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
I am amazed that people are experiencing the same thing. I have lately really been thinking about this, and I still don't know what to make of it. The big question I have is weather or not I am doing something to keep these feelings from continuing. Like you, mine comes out of no where, by suprise.
It always fades away though. My mind races, my thoughts clear...it's awesome...and then its gone.
Thanks for the comments Joe, wasn't quite sure how people were going to take this.
Thanks brother,
Chuck
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Chuck,
Perhaps it is all we are presently able to handle at this point of our walk.
His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,
Joe
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Joe,
I am sort of leaning towards that same conclusion. I agree with that, I honestly don't know how I could deal with feeling like that all the time. It may be that we can never achieve that in the flesh, and it is just Gods way of letting us know he is there, sort of a light in the darkness...of things to come.
Anyway, I know it will all make sense to me when the time is right...but for now, it's a mystery.
Peace to you too brother,
Chuck
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Hi Chuck,
You have felt in your heart the mighty workings of the Spirit of God. You feel and are conscious of a peace that surpasses all understanding. You feel a joy in God that is unspeakable and full of glory. It is the love of God shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Spirit which has been given to you. You are increasing daily in the knowledge of God and understanding about the inward Kingdom of heaven. God has awakened your spirit. You are alive to God through Jesus Christ. You live a life the world can not know outside such a relationship. It is a life hidden within Christ in God. God continually breathes upon your soul. Grace is descending into your heart. Your prayer ascends to heaven. By this conversation a spiritual relationship is set up. Through this, the life of God in the soul is sustained, and this fellowship with the Father and the Son grows. In this manner the child of God grows up, until he comes to a full measure of stature in Christ. It's nature is that great change that God works in the soul when He brings it to life. He raises the soul from death in sin to the life of righteousness. It is the change brought about in the soul by thy almighty Spirit of God when the soul is created a new in Christ Jesus and renewed after the image of God in righteousness and true holiness. It is when the love of the world is changed for the love of God. Pride is then changed into humility and passion into meekness. Hatred, envy and malice are replaced by sincere, tender, unselfish love for all mankind.
Be patient Chuck, he has let you taste of His goodness. He will complete you, He is faithful.
I continue to experience an abundance of peace, joy, and love in my life that I never new until I knew Him. I am here to testify that I would burn a billion dollars, before I would consider living without the joy Christ gives, without Him life is meaningless. At first I experienced quick passing moments also. The turning point for me, was when I finally trusted Him and believed that he would never leave me or forsake me. I began to apply the Kingdom principles to my daily life. Your will not mine Lord, teach me Lord how to not be concerned with making much of myself. I still struggle with this, It is hard to empty ourselves of selfish ambition. But it is harder to live a life of substance and have not the Christ. When someone wrongs me, I smile, and truly wish the best for them. If my husband asks like a total fool, I have learned to shut my mouth and talk to Jesus. If I happen to loose my cool, I apologize immediately. My motto, if I am right but rude, I am wrong. It is Christ, I want to impress... I know that it is He who continues to change me, not me at all, I am totally dependent upon Him. I do constantly examine myself and pray that He reveal any hidden idles of the heart.
I guess what I am trying to say, Chuck, is you will have more and more moments of total peace, joy and love. Remember he is creating a new man, the old man does not want to die but he must, in order for the new man to live. What is it that makes us want to change? Is it not that emptiness inside? That emptiness is what keeps me running after Christ, I never want to experience that again, if it means that I have to love my enemy I will. He baites us with His love, he shows us how good His love is. It is the love of God that brings us to Him. All He really wants is for us to love others unconditionally, the way he loves us, there are no strings attached. I believe that is what it is all about.
God bless you,
Mary Ann
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Mary Ann
Thanks for the comments...very good words.
God bless,
Chuck
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Hi all,
I just saw this thread and i must say i feel the same as most others, depressed with fleeting moments of joy. Now what is amazing to me about this is the fact that we are all experiencing practically the same thing! It's crazy how we are all here on the same forum, yet this is a forum about bible/God, not depression! So i guess we have all turned to God for guidance in our tough times. I can tell you personally what keeps me going... You know those fleeting moments of joy we're experiencing? I used to feel that way ALL THE TIME from early childhood all the way 'till i was 16! I considered myself the happiest person in the world, and i felt very very close to God. Then an event occurred that caused me to become depressed and now 10 years later, i really haven't gotten out of it since. Depression can be very very hard to get out of, and very very easy to get into. Knowing that there are others out there just like me is a tremendous motivation to get out of depression, and i hope it is for you all too. I want so bad to help you all because i know exactly how you feel! Here's what i know: Depression is caused by believing lies. That's a fact. I first became depressed when a girl rejected me that i had a crush on. Being rejected made me feel like there was something wrong with me. I mean, i REALLY believed there HAD to be something wrong with me, or else i wouldn't have been rejected! I analyzed myself inside out trying to figure out what was wrong for 10 years! I believed no one could help me, so i didn't look for help, and didn't even admit i was depressed to my mom until after 7 years had passed (i thought talking about my depression would just make everybody more depressed, then i would be more depressed...). Then finally after 10 years i went to see a pyschologist. After 5 or 6 sessions, i began to realize why i had initially become depressed, and that although it was hard to believe, there was probably nothing wrong with me. But i unfortunately can still hardly believe that there is nothing wrong with me, so i look for problems. And i always find one :-\ But although i always find a reason to be depressed, i do occasionally realize that the thought or thoughts that are depressing me are acutally not true. And those moments are my "Fleeting moments of joy"! Thing is, it is very hard to keep myself believing that the truth is good, although i know it must be because i felt so good for so long, and i know that was no abberation. A couple months ago, i started being worried about going to hell after passing by a John Hagie sermon on TBN. So i started worrying about that, being very depressed because i felt like there was no way i wasn't going to hell after losing sight of God for so long... so i started reasearching online and that led me to this site. After reading Ray's articles, i am now a fully converted non-traditional christian. I had no idea about the bible mis-transalations, and was very happy to learn there is no hell. But now of course i've come up with some other depressing things, but hopefully that's where you guys come in! How bout this... yall help me and i'll help 'yall! It will be hard to convince me i'm sure, but i will share my negative thoughts with you guys and hopefully you can refute them. You guys are the perfect people to do this since we all share in common certain fundamental religous beliefs. Anyways, i will share my thoughts maybe tommorow or the next day in the General forum. Lets beat this depression crap.
Sean
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Hey again all,
I read the forum rules and there doesn't seem to be any rule against posting links so long as it's not about preaching. So I'd like to post this link that is the best help/advice i've received for helping get out of depression. I know that i do some of the bad things the site says not to do, and i will explain my personal issues later, but maybe this site can be of some help to some of you now, as it has in the past helped me.
http://secretgeek.net/depression_is_easy.asp
Sean
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Sean,
Your concern and empathy in this is appreciated but (I am speaking for myself here) a humanistic psychological approach to these trials and tribulations is not what I am seeking. This process many of us are experiencing is not a feeling that will be comforted with anything other than His Spirit growing within us (increasing) as our old carnal self is decreased, I am not looking to justify or logically excuse or accept my natural mind and it's vanity.
Up until a few years ago I was always able to justify anything I would do as long as it satisfied my desires, lusts and goals. I was happy and content in my ignorance, now I have a joy in my trials (sounds insane to the humanistic philosophers) and exceedingly joyous experiences from time to time that only His Spirit can provide, I wish I could have this experience continually but I trust He knows what He is doing.
The very thoughts, goals and desires that motivated me previously, the satisfaction of accumulating material things, having a good job, etc. while I am thankful for my temporal blessings they really only amount to dust.
The "beast within" does not give up without a bloody war (spoken of throughout scripture, especially Revelation) this epic battle between our natural state and His Spirit will produce the "time of trouble" we read about.
I included this portion of Ray's article in another thread but it is very appropriate in addressing the points you raised;
THE BELIEVER’S JUDGMENT BY FIRE
Well, yes, it does appear that there is a judgment on the house of God, but certainly not a judgment by FIRE, is there? Doesn’t God judge non-believers with fire, but not believers? This only sounds strange to you if you have never been taught the Scriptures.
"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).
Peter makes it sound as though going through fiery trails is the norm rather than the exception. The New Testament is filled with the fiery trials of the Saints.
Now I hope that none will be offended at my next few statements, but if so, so be it. Unless God Almighty through the purging power of His FIERY SPIRIT, is BURNING OUT the lusts and passions and vanity and haughtiness and greed and self-righteousness and laziness and weakness and hypocrisy and wickedness and pride and materialism and cynicism and depravity and carnality in your life, then Jesus Christ is not choosing you to reign with Him as the Sons of God in the Kingdom of God to bring all Heaven and Earth to repentance and salvation!
And I will tell you on the authority of Jesus Christ and all the Holy Scriptures, that anyone who teaches and takes delight in thinking that God would ever torture anyone for all eternity, will NEVER BE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITH SUCH AN ATTITUDE!
Such damnable character flaws of the mind and spirit are going to be burned out of us all! God will either BURN OUT these filthy impurities from our hearts and minds NOW, or He will BURN THEM OUT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, but either way, make no mistake about it, THESE THINGS ARE COMING OUT!!!
JOHN THE BAPTIST: John the Baptist said that Jesus would be baptizing repentant believers with fire.
"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).
JESUS CHRIST:
"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).
APOSTLE PETER:
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).
APOSTLE PAUL:
"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).
With such noble and august witnesses, does anyone deny that the repentant, converted, dedicated, believing Christian will escape being "revealed," tried," "salted," and "baptized" by FIRE? These Scriptures are undeniable! Whatever this "fire" is, it is going to be used ON EVERYONE. These four Scriptures have the believer specifically in view, but it says and includes "EVERYONE shall be salted with FIRE," and "EVERY MAN’S WORK ... shall be revealed by FIRE."
And there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE when it comes to the non-believers:
"And I saw a great white throne ... And I saw the dead...and the dead were JUDGED ... according to their WORKS ... and they were judged EVERY MAN according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:11-13).
And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "... In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE ..." (Rev. 21:8)!
Is this "fire" in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word "fire" used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word "fire" used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers:
The entire article can be read here;
http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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This is another article appropriate for this thread;
"The Beast Within"
http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html
Joe
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Hi Stego,
Depression seems to be very common.
I too have had my bouts with it, but I have not had any depression for awhile now :)
What do I attribute this lack of depression to, quite simply God.
But it's not that simple either, because I must stay constantly with Him,
either in the Word or prayer.
Now of course there are times when I go do things,
that are not directly connected to Him, but He's not far from my mind, and I get back to it asap.
This Truth has become for me a life consuming thing, and there is no room for depression.
It is when I was allowing the things of the world to overwhem me, that I was depressed.
To really put your faith and trust in Him completely, is the answer.
Mar 4:19 and the anxieties of this age, and the deceitfulness of the riches, and the desires concerning the other things, entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Mat 6:34 Don't worry about tomorrow. It will take care of itself. You have enough to worry about today.
Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
This is my own personal experience, I say it to give others hope.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Hello everyone
For doubts.....Psalm 16:11.....in Your presence is fullness of joy..... :)
For anguish.....Matt 5:6....Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled.... :)
Arcturus
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Hi Sean
I agree with you...depression can seem like a bad thing. But the longer I live, the more I realize that depression comes from within. No external manipulationn can remove that if it is Gods will for us to have it in our lives. I truly believe that depression comes from unresolved sin. Certainly we can look at the biological standpoint and examine decreased norepinephrine and serotonin levels, or the psychological standpoint and examine all of the emotional illness definitions...but it all comes down to this. We were created the way we are, we were given these things to deal with, this is our burden to carry.
I'm not saying that I like being depressed, but it sure has motivated me at times. I also realize that if someones brain function is severly disrupted for whatever cause, they may need some type of help...but this is all for a purpose. I guess what I'm trying to say is that my depression is an integral part of my being, a cause for effect, and that I have given this too, to God.
Joe, you are SO RIGHT. It is a fierce, bloody war...with us being caught in the middle, or so it seems. I know this for a fact, as I've got the battle scars to prove it... :) I AM weary, but I expect any time to have to strap on my boots and my armor and go at it again...only upon my death will it stop.
Kat, Mark 4:19 is so awesome and true. I often think of verse 39...where Jesus speaks to the sea... " Peace, be still."
I know that all my times of quiet and peace are from God, that he knows I grow weary...that he is giving me rest before the next battle to come.
Love,Chuck
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John 15
10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
James 1
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
2 Thessalonians 1
3We ought always to thank God for you, brothers, and rightly so, because your faith is growing more and more, and the love every one of you has for each other is increasing. 4Therefore, among God's churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.
5All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.
Hebrews 12:1
[ God Disciplines His Sons ] Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
James 5
10Brothers, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11As you know, we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.
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I'll tell you one quote i really liked that Joe posted previously:
"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).
This is telling me I'm not crazy to feel the way i do, i like being not crazy lol.
Kat, i am happy that you are happy, and that the truth is making you happy! You must know more truth than me now, for if i knew and believed the truth that you do i would surely not be depressed. Maybe for me to put my faith in him completely IS the answer, the solution to my depression, but it is not easy for me now, for whatever reason.
Arcturus you said "For anguish.....Matt 5:6....Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled.... "
I can hardly wait, fill me up!
Chuck you said "But the longer I live, the more I realize that depression comes from within."
Absolutely i agree with this.
Then you say "No external manipulationn can remove that if it is Gods will for us to have it in our lives."
Surely if it is God's will for me to be depressed then i will be depressed! But although i know that it was God's will for me to be depressed yesterday, because i was depressed yesterday, what is his will for me today? If i assume that it is God's will for me to be depressed, how depressing is that!!?? Thinking that God wants me to be depressed actually causes me to be depressed!! It makes me view God as a mean God, one who just wants me to be sad all the time. Now, is this true?? This is the lie i have been having trouble not believing. But since God is good, the truth MUST BE that he does NOT want us to be depressed, just as he would not want for us any other bad thing. See how confusing this can be? God's will is always being done, and it is perfectly good, but how can you convince me that feeling like absolute crap was actually GOOD? Are you kidding me? That was bad! But i guess, it must have been for a good reason. Frustration, confusion, depression. To get happy i must believe with all my heart that God is good, and the problem has been that i reflect on the bad feelings i have experienced for so long and then said to myself "God caused that" which is true of course but, I guess i just need more faith in his goodness. i'm terrible for thinking these terrible things about God! How can i not think myself terrible for this? jeeeeeeeesh.
Chuck, you then say "I truly believe that depression comes from unresolved sin"
Ya, for me the sin is not believing God is good despite the fact that he has made me feel bad. It's hard! Sometimes i can see God as good more clearly, but then i find
myself having the negative thought i just described and i fall back down to depression. It's brutal! I hoping hanging out on the forum can help me increase my faith in God's goodness, that's why i'm here. Thanks for talking with me guys. Talk to yall later.
Sean
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Hey Sean,
Bobby brought up some good points. I also want to clearify what I said because I didn't mean to confuse you. I often assume that other people know what direction I am headed with something and then I leave out too much information.
When I say that I believe that depression comes from unresolved sin, this is more what I meant. Our conscience, which acts a s a "liaison" between the conscious and unconscious mind, does a good job of constantly reminding us of things that we need to know, or face, or understand. I'm sure you have had times where you might say " my conscience is bothering me", and so you go and attempt to resolve that issue. When things are just nagging at us, we tend to feel depressed. At this level, I do feel that our feelings of depression are from unresolved issues (sin) But there is another side to that as Bobby explained.
He mentioned that he takes Paxil. I take a drug called Buspar, which is very similar. When you get to a point where normal functioning is difficult, then that is clearly a different issue. As far as it being unresolved sin, my standpoint was taken from the entire human issue of disease as a whole, and not from a personal level of accountibility. I certainly don't mean that if someone gets cancer or had clinical depression or whetever, that they must have committed a sin and just won't confess it or anything of that nature. I realize that some people may say things like that and I want to make sure you don't think that is what I meant. Mankind is sin, everything bad or evil or harmful is from sin. I was getting way too deep into that subject without explaining myself clearly, so I apologize fot that.
When I said that my depression motivates me, I meant that I do work hard to "clear" my conscience, that those nagging issues do motivate me to an "act" of resolution to the best of my ability. So at that level depression often works in my favor.
A clinical depression, as Bobby mentioned is a very difficult and serious thing. This type can permeate your entire life and can be extremely debilitating. That is when you must seek help. God gave us the art of medicine, and I believe that we should utilize it when ever possible.
You are NOT crazy my friend, we all have moments of depression, especially during times that we are being cleansed by the spirit. I too love that verse that Joe quoted. Things can truly seem "strange" at times during our walk. It is true, it can be brutal, but you are going through the same things that we all go through, I assure you. We all doubt or question God at times, but that doesn't mean that it will always be that way. These things do take time.
Anyway, this is way too long, but I regret when I don't explain myself very well, just wanted to clearify what I said.
Sean, you have come to the right place for understanding. Put all your trust in God, and in time it will truly all come together as God intended.
Your Brother,
Chuck
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Hey again Chuck and Bobby,
I empathize with both of you. Don't worry Chuck, you didn't cause my confusion, you just brought to mind a subject that confused me. After many years of feeling terrible, i too went to the doctor and tried a couple different medications. They didn't do much, but i also went to see a pyschologist, and that helped more. I have realized since then that my depression is caused by the bad things i often believe to be true, which are really not. But i know that different people have different kinds of depression so different treatments work. Bobby, i know what you mean about it being tough to get out of bed. I think you give a very good possible explanation for why God has caused us to bear this kind of burden. We know there must be a good reason, and being able to help/comfort and understand others who feel the same could be part of it. I am very thankful to meet you guys! It's good to know there are people out there that can realate that i can talk to. Bobby you are way too loving to be at all depressed lol. God bless you both Chuck and Bobby! To bed i go.
Sean
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Bobby,
You are so right about that. Trying to show the love of Christ to most people often ends up in disaster. It can most certainly turn into a "fleeting moment of Joy". It is sad, but it only illustrates the differences in peoples hearts. Someone can be nice, happy, sucessful, moral, helpful, giving...on and on, and yet...they have no love in their hearts whatsoever.
Try showing them love, or giving them a hug, or doing something for them out of our "Christ Like attitude"...and they freak out! It can be very depressing, but it also shows me how I used to be, and that is very sobering and uplifting. Like they say, you don't know what you had until its GONE.
Sean..thanks for that note, I'm glad I didn't confuse you I just wanted to be sure. Brother we seem to have a lot of common ailments, but thank God that we both know the cure. I'm thankful for meeting you as well, thanks for the good words. Talk to you later.
Love,
Chuck
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Hi Bobby and Chuck,
I have been following your discussion and
I understand what you mean about people misunderstanding
your motives in a act of kindness.
But I have also had a different experience,
when dealing with someone who is frustrated and becoming angry.
If they are becoming curt, instead of escalating the situation,
keeping your voice low and speak kindly.
This can turn the situation totally around.
I have used this technique a no. of times
and usually the other person will apology for being abrupt.
Meekness is a difficult fruit to show sometimes.
Pro 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath; But a grievous word stirreth up anger.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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That is beautiful Bobby
How much faith will Christ find when He returns?...He observed for us to contemplate. I think the less we see of His Spirit the more we forget Him and fall into a dark sleep of forgetfulness or amnesia....I think that is where most of the worlds population are right now....in a deep sleep...and that is not to condemn them or judge them in a superior way...It just makes me shudder! that the darkness of the world is so intense right now.
.It is wonderful to see the mind-of Christ exibit the Spirit of Christ to assist the followers of Christ through the teachings we are getting via Ray. There for the Grace of God go we!....I am so grateful for the mercy of God to give us light in our darkness and hope through our fellowship in His presence and love for all ...
Arcturus :)
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Hey Kat,
I know exactly what you mean, and I have over time, become much less confrontational towards others. I have learned that everyones actions are indicative of their relative position to the mind of God, and that it is not my place to judge. I now lean more towards playing my part, and not so much in rewriting the script... :)
When I read your post last night, a thought came into my mind..."speak softly and carry a big stick"
I was laughing so hard because for a second or two I was trying to remember what scripture that came from, and then realized it wasn't God... but Teddy Roosevelt.
Sometimes I amaze even myself, but I got a good laugh out of that.
Thanks for your good words Kat, I agree with you and always try to do just as you described.
Love,
Chuck
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Hi Bobby,
Oh I wasn't referring to what you said exactly.
I was just giving in little input, from a different angle.
We deal with all kinds of people,
and there are different ways we and they react.
That saying that was around a few years back 'WWJD',
is actually a good way to look at things.
I kinda feel like Jesus is looking over my shoulder a lot of the time.
For Jesus to live in us, we actually do begin to do what He would do, are He does in us.
Just some thoughts.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Kat my friend I see what you meant and I apologize if I sounded out of sorts. It is great how we all have different perspectives but still are of like mind.
Love to Kat,
bobby
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Yes Bobby
we all have different perspectives...."we all see in part" but when the parts fit together...BOOM who do we see but Jesus Christ, His Spirit, His smile and His favor!.....It's like hide and seek!...and we get to see HIM when we love one another and mirror HIS FACE....seeking HIS countenance....seeking ever seeking...and finding....ever finding...HIM the LOVE of our lives...
Arcturus :)