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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Fabruk on November 06, 2007, 07:03:40 AM

Title: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: Fabruk on November 06, 2007, 07:03:40 AM

Hi Guys I wasn't too clear on my previous question so here it goes.
I have read Praying in Tongues article and also Praying by God Rules but I still have one more question:
What is the Praying in the Holy Spirit that Jude was talking about? Any Idea?
Thanks for all replies
God Bless

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: Kat on November 06, 2007, 09:38:45 AM

Hi Fabio,

I have different translations that I think will help you see what is being said here.

Jude 1:20

(MKJV)  But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

(GNB)  But you, my friends, keep on building yourselves up on your most sacred faith. Pray in the power of the Holy Spirit,

(CEV)  Dear friends, keep building on the foundation of your most holy faith, as the Holy Spirit helps you to pray.

(NLT)  But you, dear friends, must continue to build your lives on the foundation of your holy faith. And continue to pray as you are directed by the Holy Spirit.

(Rotherham) But, ye, beloved! building yourselves up in your most holy faith, in Holy Spirit, praying,

(NASB)  But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

Also this verse in Romans speaks of the same thing.

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

I hope this helps  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: hillsbororiver on November 06, 2007, 09:42:14 AM

Rom 8:26   Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
 
Rom 8:27  And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

When we pray to the Father seeking His will rather than our own the Spirit of Christ intercedes for us to allign our will with His own, when we approach God in this humble manner we are praying in and with the Holy Spirit of Christ.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: hillsbororiver on November 06, 2007, 09:44:17 AM

 ;D

Good morning Kat,

We did it once again, posting very similar responses virtually simultaneously!

His Peace to you Sister,

Joe

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: Lacey23 on November 06, 2007, 09:49:30 AM

Im hardly qualified but at least let me try and see if I can help you here..You asked what Jude was referring to when he was talking about praying in the Holy Ghost, I think he meant that we are to continue to ask the Holy Ghost for help when we are in need.


Jude 1:17-23 (King James Version)


  17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

 18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 22And of some have compassion, making a difference:

 23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.


Jude 1:17-23 (Amplified Bible)

    17But you must remember, beloved, the predictions which were made by the apostles (the special messengers) of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

    18They told you beforehand, In the last days (in the end time) there will be scoffers [who seek to gratify their own unholy desires], following after their own ungodly passions.

    19It is these who are [agitators] setting up distinctions and causing divisions--merely sensual [creatures, carnal, worldly-minded people], devoid of the [Holy] Spirit and destitute of any higher spiritual life.

    20But you, beloved, build yourselves up [founded] on your most holy faith [[a]make progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], praying in the Holy Spirit;

    21Guard and keep yourselves in the love of God; expect and patiently wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)--[which will bring you] unto life eternal.

    22And refute [so as to] convict some who dispute with you, and on some have mercy who waver and doubt.

    23[Strive to] save others, snatching [them] out of [the] fire; on others take pity [but] with fear, loathing even the garment spotted by the flesh and polluted by their sensuality.(A)


Jude 1:17-23 (The Message)


17-19But remember, dear friends, that the apostles of our Master, Jesus Christ, told us this would happen: "In the last days there will be people who don't take these things seriously anymore. They'll treat them like a joke, and make a religion of their own whims and lusts." These are the ones who split churches, thinking only of themselves. There's nothing to them, no sign of the Spirit!

 20-21But you, dear friends, carefully build yourselves up in this most holy faith by praying in the Holy Spirit, staying right at the center of God's love, keeping your arms open and outstretched, ready for the mercy of our Master, Jesus Christ. This is the unending life, the real life!

 22-23Go easy on those who hesitate in the faith. Go after those who take the wrong way. Be tender with sinners, but not soft on sin. The sin itself stinks to high heaven.


The Holy Spirit's desire and purpose is to help you -- not to hinder you.


So we need to ask the holy spirit for help in everything we do because it guides us, helps us in our weakness, sancifiies us, and etc and when you are in need of help, the Holy Spirit comes to help you and get you back on your feet. It helps you from stumbling, convicts you of sin, helps turn you away from sin.

I hope the scriptures from various bibles helps answer ur question?

So maybe the part in Judas is referring that when we stumble, we should pray and call on to the Holy Ghost to help us and he will.


Lacey

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: rjsurfs on November 06, 2007, 10:04:59 AM

Hi Fabio,

This verse came to my mind when I first read this thread:

1Co 12:3  Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.  (King James)

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I am making known to you that no one, speaking by God's spirit, is saying, "Anathema is Jesus. And no one is able to say "Lord is Jesus except by holy spirit." (Concordant)

I believe this scripture works with the Romans scripture quoted by Kat and Joe as well.  To call on Jesus truly as Lord requires the Holy Spirit... it is also the Holy Spirit actually praying for us... through us... as well as stated in Romans 8:26.

Some of the versions Kat posted I think make it more clear that Jude 1:20 is stating "pray as you are directed by the Holy Spirit" and " as the Holy Spirit helps you to pray".

Bobby

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: Kat on November 06, 2007, 11:36:31 AM

Hi Lacy,

I would like to mention one thing about your post.

Quote

we are to continue to ask the Holy Ghost for help when we are in need.

So we need to ask the holy spirit for help in everything we do because it guides us

we should pray and call on to the Holy Ghost to help us and he will

These statements make it sound like you are speaking of the Holy Spirit as a third being of the God head  ;)

I think you know this, but I just wanted to bring out that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ that is indwelling in the elect  :)

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: Lacey23 on November 06, 2007, 08:22:56 PM

So sorry... I know that The Holy Spirit is not the third person in the Godhead. God is Spirit and there is only one Spirit.

Eph 4:4= There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 = One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 = One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The title, "Holy Spirit" is used to designate another manifestation of God, another office as He works and moves in the hearts and lives of men and women.

Am i right, correct me if im mistaken, so i can learn


Thanks, Lacey

Quote from: Kat on November 06, 2007, 11:36:31 AM

Hi Lacy,

I would like to mention one thing about your post.

Quote

we are to continue to ask the Holy Ghost for help when we are in need.

So we need to ask the holy spirit for help in everything we do because it guides us

we should pray and call on to the Holy Ghost to help us and he will

These statements make it sound like you are speaking of the Holy Spirit as a third being of the God head  ;)

I think you know this, but I just wanted to bring out that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ that is indwelling in the elect  :)

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: jER on November 08, 2007, 12:34:55 AM

Many are called (out), but few indeed are chosen (selected), however, all will be Reconciled in one Spirit – HIS (God and Father of ALL).

So much for the "Us and them" mentality of (all) the churches…

A beloved brother in Christ…

- JER

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: Fabruk on November 08, 2007, 04:43:26 AM

Thank you very much for all your comments.

Kat, your different translations helped where I needed. Thank you so much.

Just a thing though. Is it possible to know EXACTLY what is the proper translation for that verse?

God Bless
Fabio 

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: rjsurfs on November 08, 2007, 08:37:54 AM

Fabio, 

Yes, I believe so... understanding comes through the spirit.
Ray talks about this in Lake of Fire... in Part VII:

Quote

By the way, the idea of an "inerrant" or flawless translation is not even possible. It just isn’t possible to translate one language into another language PERFECTLY. It cannot humanly be done! There are many words, idioms, and colloquial sayings in many languages that simply HAVE NO EXACT EQUIVALENT in other languages. But that’s okay. It is possible to understand God’s Word even with these difficulties, differences, and imperfect translations. That is because the real understanding is in the SPIRIT and not in the LETTER. Certainly God uses both, but the emphasis is on the former and not the latter.

The strange languages we find on earth today are the inventions of God Himself. Yes, they are. God confounded the languages of mankind at the Tower of Babel. He really did a number on the Chinese, didn’t He?

God knows that understanding His Word is not a casual task that can be accomplished without great effort. Paul told Timothy to "STUDY," rather than just casually read the Scriptures. Even with the aid of God Spirit, we must study, God does not miraculously cause His saints to memorize and understand all Scripture.

And:

Quote

UNDERSTANDING COMES ONLY FROM THE SPIRIT

In John 16:4 we read this,

"But these things have I told you, that WHEN THE TIME SHALL COME, ye may remember that I told you of them."

Verses 12-15,

"I have yet MANY THINGS to say unto you, but ye CANNOT bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for He shall not speak of Himself [Jesus IS this Spirit of Truth]; but whatsoever He shall hear [from His Father], that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father has are Mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you."

So why didn’t the disciples understand these things when Jesus first taught them? Because they weren’t converted as yet. They did not have the Spirit of God as yet. That is the ONLY way we can ever understand these deep symbolic mysteries of God:

"But God has revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searches ALL things, yea, the DEEP things of God" (I Cor. 2:10)

"But we have the MIND of Christ" (Verse 16).

I believe we need to beware of those who claim to know God’s Spiritual Truths, but know preciously little about God’s Word, the Scriptures. God’s Spirit never contradicts His Word, but the Church’s teaching contradicts God’s Word in hundreds of places.

God has hid these mysteries from the world and even from the Church, I am sad to say. Not that I am the only one to begin understanding these things. There have always been some in every generation that God gave this understanding to. And there are now people scattered around the world that understand these deep mysteries of God and His prophecies for the future, but they are relatively few in number.

Notice Revelation 5:10,

"And has made US unto our God KINGS and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Now Proverbs 25:2,

"It is the glory of God to CONCEAL a thing: but the honour of kings is to SEARCH OUT a matter."

And so if we are to be kings, it is our honour to "search out" these things. You must want it more than anything in the world; more than anything in life, more than life itself! If you want life, you must SACRIFICE your life.

I hope that helps,
Bobby

Title: Re: Is Praying in Tongues the same as Praying in the Holy Spirit?
Post by: Kat on November 08, 2007, 10:27:40 AM

Hi Fabio,

Glad to see that helped  :)  Bobby brought up some good references.  And I want to mention that the conference that Ray just had last week, he spoke on 'How We Got The Bible.'  This goes into a lot of explanations about the translations.  It's very good to have this understanding of how the scriptures were written and came to be in all these translations.  He used the list of spurious scriptures at this link: http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm.

The audio of the conference is at this link:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat