bible-truths.com/forums

=> General Discussions => Topic started by: fstamp on July 31, 2008, 12:52:22 PM

Title: Revelation 17:5 and 18: 4
Post by: fstamp on July 31, 2008, 12:52:22 PM

Interpretation of these two would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks, Fstamp

Title: Re: Revelation 17:5 and 18: 4
Post by: hillsbororiver on July 31, 2008, 01:08:15 PM

From LOF Part 15 http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html

GOD’S PEOPLE ARE IN BABYLON

The Church of God is

"in the wilderness."

And this Church has a name:

"MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 12:6 & 17:5).

And just where do you suppose that God’s "chosen elect" come from? Why out of Babylon, of course:

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).

Maybe the biggest single aspect of "coming out of Babylon" is giving up the unscriptural "free will"/"free choice" idol of the heart. We've seen the sin for which, the King of Assyria was punished by God, the sin of "free self will." Believing that he, himself, had the power of will and choice to act independently of God’s foreordained intentions.

From LOF Part 6 http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

"MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:5).

Notice that this Great Whore is a "mother of harlots." She is a mother who has harlots for daughters. This is the very same thing that we read in Ezekiel 16: 48,

"As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister has not done, she nor her daughters, as you [Jerusalem] has done, YOU [Jerusalem—a MOTHER] and your DAUGHTERS."

Any woman who has "daughters" is of necessity, a "mother."

Now for a real shocker! From where does God call HIS people? The answer shocked me.

"BABYLON THE GREAT is fallen, is fallen… For ALL NATIONS have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication … And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come OUT of her, MY PEOPLE that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:2-4)!

Wow! Can you believe it? God calls HIS PEOPLE, HIS SAINTS, HIS ELECT, HIS CHURCH, OUT OF "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"!! That’s where the Apostles came from, that’s where Paul came from, that’s where the small persecuted church down through the ages came from, that where every believer I know came from, and that’s where I came from. I, in fact, followed and obeyed several of her harlots in the process of coming out of Babylon. I was no better than the worst of sinners. It is only by God’s grace that we are able to escape this system. And God will continue to call His elect out of that very system until He destroys it in His presence.

So clearly, the Mother Whore Jerusalem has HARLOT DAUGHTERS! And of the great religious system spoken of in Revelation 17 we also clearly see that MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, is a Mother Whore of Harlot Daughters! One has to be spiritually blind as a bat to not see that when we compare "Spiritual with spiritual," these two are a "spiritual MATCH!" More proof:

The one True Church of the Living God has a "Father" and a "Mediator—Jesus Christ." But does God’s Church have a "Mother?" Ah, Yes, it surely does:

"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory [a representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters] for these are the TWO COVENANTS; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar IS [now a metaphor—‘is like, in certain ways’] mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to JERUSALEM which NOW IS [at the time Paul wrote this and continues to this day] and is in BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is ABOVE ["The HEAVENLY JERUSALEM" Heb. 12:22] is free, which is THE MOTHER OF US ALL" (Gal. 4:22-26).

What amazing Scriptures these are. The New Covenant Church of the Living God has a MOTHER—HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE. And the giant Old Covenant Whore Church also has a mother—EARTHLY JERUSALEM BELOW. The New is FREE, whereas the Old is in BONDAGE. But how can I say that the Old Covenant Church is "huge?" Aren’t there only a relatively few orthodox Jews around the world who keep the "Old" Covenant? No, there are BILLIONS of people who keep the "Old" Covenant around the world. There are almost no Christians that understand and keep the "New" Covenant. To the world of Christendom, the Old Covenant IS THE NEW COVENANT! The New Covenant is merely keeping the Old Covenant, BETTER! That’s right. To most, the New Covenant consists of keeping the Old Covenant, better. They say that they now keep the Old Covenant "in the spirit." Just how, pray tell, does one keep the "physical" in the "spirit?"

Such a doctrine is utter unscriptural contradictory nonsense. You cannot keep the "physical" in the "spirit." THERE IS NO SPIRIT IN THE PHYSICAL, SO HOW COULD ONE ‘KEEP IT’ IF IT DOESN’T EXIST? We are all born with a physical [carnal] mind. It is possible to keep physical [carnal] laws with a physical carnal mind (Paul did it to near perfection when he was Saul!). But one CANNOT keep God’s spiritual laws with a physical carnal mind!

"Because the carnal [natural physical] mind is enmity [deep seated HATRED] AGAINST God; for it is NOT subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

"For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace" (Rom. 8:6).

Let’s be sure that we are perfectly clear on these Scriptural facts:

Paul said that there ARE RIGHT NOW, TWO Jerusalem's in existence.

One answers to the New Covenant, which is HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE.

One answers to the Old Covenant, which is EARTHLY JERUSALEM IN ISRAEL.

If you think that you can spiritually keep the physical laws of Moses, then your mother is the Old Covenant which answers to "Jerusalem which now is—IN BONDAGE."

But if you are keeping God’s spiritual laws through the spirit of God, then your mother is "Heavenly Jerusalem ABOVE which is—FREE."

Of course the fact that Jerusalem is TWICE as wicked and abominable as Sodom does not in any way justify the sins of Sodom. No, God will deal with both Jerusalem and Sodom. And that is the whole point of this discussion. So even though the sins of Jerusalem are twice as abominable as the sins of Sodom, God will, nonetheless, SAVE JERUSALEM! And just when will God save Jerusalem? AT THE SAME TIME THAT HE SAVES SODOM. Yes, Sodom WILL BE SAVED, and she will be saved at the same time that doubly corrupt and abominable Jerusalem will be saved. Now least anyone think that I harbor ill feelings toward Jerusalem for writing these things, let me make it abundantly clear where these things came from. It is GOD, and not I, Who calls Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt, and not only historically, but prophetically as well.

"When your sisters, SODOM and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then THOU [JERUSALEM] and thy daughters shall return to YOUR former estate" (Verse 55).

"Then you shall remember your ways, and be ashamed, when you shall receive your sisters, your elder [Samaria] and your younger [SODOM]: and I will give them [Samaria and Sodom] unto you for daughters, but not by your covenant. And I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall KNOW [for the first time] that I am the Lord: That you may remember, and be confounded, and never open your mouth any more because of your shame, when I am PACIFIED [make atonement, to pardon, to placate, to cover, to condone] TOWARD THEE [Jerusalem AND her sisters, Samaria and Sodom] for all that you have done, saith the Lord God" (Verses 61-63).

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornication…" Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMED—spiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).

They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the God’s spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!

So, is Sodom right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Is Jerusalem of old right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Will Sodom and Jerusalem be saved TOGETHER? YES, in the second resurrection, at the white throne judgment, in the lake of fire. The lake of divine spiritual fire will bring salvation to ALL THE NATIONS! "…but he himself [whomever of the billions of people purged in God’s spiritual fire] shall be SAVED; yet so as BY [God’s spiritual consuming] FIRE"! (I Cor. 3:15).

Remember that there are two administrations of God’s purging fire: The first is on the House of God consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers and sons of God. The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment in the lake of God’s divine purging fire. All the children of the bondwoman, the Old Covenant, the Mother Whore with her harlot daughters, will one day be the children of Heavenly Jerusalem Above, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL!

God truly is NOT A RESPECTER OF PERSONS. GOD IS ABLE TO BRING ANY PERSON TO REPENTANCE. How could anyone deny it? There is no such thing as a person being so evil that he cannot be converted by the spirit of God. But God has a timetable, and He will follow that timetable. There is great wisdom in what God does and how He does it and when He does it and to whom He does.

If you have never experienced COMING OUT of Babylon the Great, then maybe you are being called to respond to God’s plea: "Come OUT of her MY PEOPLE." It is a great and wonderful thing to be called by God at this time to be prepared as the very SONS OF THE LIVING GOD to bring salvation to the rest of the world and the entirety of the universe!

Peace,

Joe

Title: Re: Revelation 17:5 and 18: 4
Post by: Kat on July 31, 2008, 02:08:51 PM

Hi Fstamp,

As if what Joe posted already wasn't enough, here is a few emails to go with it.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2049.0.html ----------

No, Babylon does not claim to be the Church, THEY ARE THE CHURCH.
There are the called and the few chosen.  The few chosen come out of the called masses of the congregation.  Babylon the church rides the beast.  The beast is the world.

God be with you,
Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6335.0.html -------

> I do have a question for you about the mystery,
> Babylon the Great, in rev 17:5. When I read further
> down in verse 18, it said that "the woman whom you saw
> is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the
> earth". It doesn't speak as though she was a
> religious system as you've stated. Could you give more
> insight that I may have missed?
> One more question about the "beast" in which you
> stated as describing us. Are you saying that "the
> Antichrist" isn't going to exist except in the hearts
> of men?

Ray's reply:

A "city" in this case is used of a "religion."  See Gal. 4:25-31--Jerusalem in Israel and Jerusalem ABOVE are two women--two RELIGIONS; two CHURCHES.
 
Second question:  What "THE antichrist?"  Where do you read of "THE" antichrist? Not in the Scriptures.

God be with you,
Ray


http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#Islamic ---------

"And the woman [a woman is used symbolically to represent a church in Scripture] was clothed with purple and scarlet, and gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, brimming with ABOMINATIONS and the UNCLEANNESS of the PROSTITUTION of her and the earth. And on her forehead is written a name:

Secret
Babylon the Great
the mother of prostitutes and
the abominations of
the earth"
(Rev. 17:4-5).

Now notice Rev. 18:4,

"And I hear another voice out of heaven, saying, 'Come out of her, My people, lest you should be joint participants of her sins, and lest you should be getting of her calamities, for her sins WERE PILED UP TO HEAVEN, and God remembers her injuries."

Do you see that God plead with "HIS PEOPLE" to come out of her?  What great religious system of this earth is God pleading for His people to COME OUT OF?  Islam?  Judaism?  Hinduism?  Confucianism?   Jehovah's Witnesses?  Mormonism? Hardly.

Notice again,

"Hither! I shall be showing you the sentence of the GREAT PROSTITUTE who is sitting on MANY WATERS [peoples and nations], with whom the KINGS OF THE EARTH [this church is not off in a corner some place, she is consuming the very 'KINGS OF THE EARTH'], commit PROSTITUTION [spiritual idolatry], and those dwelling on the earth [that's a lot of people, Pastor, 'THOSE DWELLING ON THE EARTH'] are made DRUNK [spiritually] with the wine of her PROSTITUTION." (Rev. 17:1-2).

What HUGE religion is blanketing the earth like no other religion in the history of the world? 

What religion teaches the most hideous and damnable false doctrines far worse than an pagan or heathen religion in the history of the world?   

Which religion teaches that Jesus Christ is NOT THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, THAT HE WILL NOT SAVE SINNERS, THAT HIS MISSION WILL BE A FAILURE AND A SHAME, AND THAT HE WILL, IN FACT, THROW BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF MEN AND WOMEN AND BOYS AND GIRLS INTO A HELLHOLE OF FIRE AND BARBECUE MOST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL ETERNITY WITHOUT HOPE OR WITHOUT MERCY???

Now maybe you are beginning to see where God is going to lay much blame for the darkness of spiritual deception covering the world today.

Hope this helps your understanding a little better. 

Thank God there is coming a white throne judgment and lake of purifying FIRE to cleanse the world of all the carnal-minded darkness that mankind has wallowed in for centuries.

May God continue to guide you into His perfect will for your life!

Sincerely,

Ray