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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: space.ace.jase on May 18, 2009, 07:22:35 AM
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Hi all,
I just wanted to get some opinions and experience from others about helping the people you care about (family, friends etc.) In my case I'm trying to help one of my family members overcome something that has kept them captive for most of their life (depression and anxiety) but I'm not having much luck. I myself have overcome what they are experiencing (via pills and therapy) and it has changed my life forever; I know how horrible and soul sucking it is but why is it that some people wont help themselves even when I'm trying so hard to encourage them! I know that God is telling me "in my time, not yours" but it's so difficult to see someone suffering with this where there is a lot of help out there to be free from it.
Sometimes I get so angry at God's plans; I just want to see the people I love happy. Anyone else been through this (be it drugs, gambling, depression etc.)
Thanks guys. :(
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Hello Space.Ace.Jase
Negative thoughts and perception are what causes the chemical imbalance that leads to depression.
Im going to speak from triple x experience, Ok?
Something happens or didn't happen in a persons life that starts the negative thinking which escalates into self pity. I'm talking about a pitiful pity party. Its pure and simple carnal consequences.
You can not help someone depressed by showing them sympathy or compassion. Their self pity feeds on it.
I know I'm sounding harsh, but that's not what I'm being.
There is lots of information out there about depression and a lot of opinions, but the answer is in the bible, and in Rays teachings about influenced choices.
My reply is nothing more than opinion based on experience.
The best help you can be to someone who you think might not want help, but they do, even if they dont know it, is to be kind but firm in telling them to quit being so pitiful and self centered. Let them know you dont feel sorry for them. Give examples of others hardships. Ask them if they love those that love him or her. If so then stop being so pitiful and get over the pity party and consider those that love you.
When they start their pity party talk, tell them you don't want to hear it. These kind of comments will probably make the person mad, but that's OK, in fact its good that they get mad or hurt. When they start to see that its not about them anymore, they will start to look at themselves. Its like the spoiled child pitching a fit to have its way. Don't give in to their snare. Always let the person know you love him or her but your not going to tolerate their depression and self pity. Everyone in the family has to be with you on this. No drugs or counseling can fix depression, only numb it or fuel it. You cant fix your loved one with sympathy. Be firm and demanding with love.
In Christ
Roy
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Roy,
Thank you! That is something I needed to hear today! :D
Kathy :)
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Roy, that was fantastic! I have always wished for the words to express my thoughts about this and those were it. You nailed it and YES, it won't sit well with anyone going through it. Chemical imbalance is named the cause when it has a cause as well. True healing comes from getting to the root rather than treating the symptoms.
It all goes back to "That's why I'm telling you to stop worrying about your life..." Matt 6:25
Thanks again!
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Hello, Roy you are right on target. For a few years I suffered with depression because I could not have children. Everyone, in the family was having them I had nothing I felt. Then, the Lord helped me to over come this terrible carnal thoughts in me. He got me over it and I ended up helping to raise these children. They all treat me as someone important in there life. Now, I even have a great-nephew who is 4 in my life.
I now, have lots of health problems, but even with all of these I do not have depression. I still look forward to being with my family and especially with God. God can make all the difference in depression. At, some point we have to quit feeling sorry for ourselves. God only can deliver us from this.
Good post.
In His Love,
Marlene
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I'll also speak from experience. Our daughter while in high school was going through a time of depression. If it hadn't been for a friend of hers telling us that Felicity was talking about suicide, she might not be here today.
It was the worst time in our lives. I forced her almost physically dragging her to an appointment, where they sent us immediately to St. Joesph's Hospital . They called ahead and made the arrangement. My husband left work,when I called him and told him what was taking place. We drove about 80 miles with my husband having tears rolling down his cheeks. Our daughter not looking at us or speaking to us. When we left her there , she still wouldn't respond to us. She was put on medication for clinical depression and received in house therapy. When she started responding and they thought it was safe, we took her home. She had homeschooling for a bit to make up what she'd missed out on and then returned to school. She was on the school paper and did an article about her experience and in it, thanked us for getting her the help she needed.
Felicity is a very bright woman and today isn't on any medication.
I'd be very careful how I'd approach someone that is depressed. Your words might be the ones to nudge them over the edge.
with love,meee
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The ones that talk about suicide are saying, hey give me attention. Its the ones that never mention it or try to hide it that commit suicide. By saying Im going to kill myself or just injure myself, is tryiing to get attention to my self pity. Why tell someone you are going to hurt yourself?
I went through the highest level of depression. I got the sympathy thing from everyone for a long time and it wasnt until a good friend started telling me to just get over it Roy. People start disappearing from my life avoiding me because their sick and tired of my pity party. What Im saying is after all the fuel from peoples sympathy was gone then I started to see how wimpy and stupid I had been. My story cant go without saying that God was in the scene the whole time. I didnt tell people I was going to kill myself, but I sure made them think it. I wasnt aware that I was doing this stuff until I came out of it looking back. Depression demands sympathy. I am so glad that I had a friend bold enough to say get over it Roy, who do you think you are by acting this way?
If every one would have said said stuff like that to me at the beginning, then My depression wouldnt have gone as far as it did. Im telling you seriously that they fed me with sympathy when they should have kicked me in the butt.
Please dont anyone be offended by this. Thats the way it was for me.
In Christ and love
Roy
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Hello, I don't know why some people will not seek for medical help. But, we cannot force anyone to do a thing. Maybe they have a chemical that is off in there body and should have it checked out. But, then again if they are of age you cannot force them.
I knew what the root of my problems was. I spent way too long on wanting to have a baby and not wanting to live my life. I did not use drugs or things like that, I used food. Latter, even that did not make me happy. But, God helped me to start living my life and taught me I had him to lean on him to overcome this.
I don't judge others who have to use medications. I do know teenage sucide is quite common. I see nothing wrong how you handled your daughters life Mee. Thats, what parents are for to help there children. This seemed to work for her. I know, teenagers do not handle some things as well as adults.
I am just glad they were able to help her.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Roy, you are on the button. It applies to people with drinking problems as well. How I wish someone had been forthright and brutal when I was a teen. And told me I looked like an idiot when I had had too much. It would have helped stop it far earlier. But no, nobody did, it was all funny and swept under the carpet.
I do it now to youngsters and to people of any age. If they are worried about when they got drunk and ask if they were acting ok I tell them straight. No, you could not walk in a straight line, swore like a sailor, talked like a parrot on heroine ect ect. I have reduced a lot of teens to tears, especially girls. Because I know a female is far less able to handle alcohol than a man. And so much more vulnerable. I dont do it in a judgemental manner, I do it clinically, while letting them know I have been there. Does it help? I hope so. Because I have angered so many, but better that than telling them lies.
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Hello, I don't know why some people will not seek for medical help. But, we cannot force anyone to do a thing. Maybe they have a chemical that is off in there body and should have it checked out.
I don't judge others who have to use medications. I do know teenage suicide is quite common. I see nothing wrong how you handled your daughters life Mee. That's, what parents are for to help there children. This seemed to work for her. I know, teenagers do not handle some things as well as adults.
In His Love,
Marlene
[/quote
That's the whole thing, Many do need the help of medication to get them past the the initial bad feelings that they can't cope with , without the medication. Then they also need to see a Psychiatrist weekly and for Felicity, that was ongoing for a few years.
She was a kid and I could use force to put her in a safe place where she got help.
Yes, one needs medication when diagnosed with clinical depression, it is a chemical in balance and some need it for life. Felicity was able to go off it, but I am concerned that as many women have had depression after having a baby, she might and will have to go on it again. I'm telling her husband and in laws to keep a close eye on her.
Thank you, Marlene.
hugs,meee
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That's the whole thing, Many do need the help of medication to get them past the the initial bad feelings that they can't cope with , without the medication. Then they also need to see a Psychiatrist weekly and for Felicity, that was ongoing for a few years.
She was a kid and I could use force to put her in a safe place where she got help.
Yes, one needs medication when diagnosed with clinical depression, it is a chemical in balance and some need it for life. Felicity was able to go off it, but I am concerned that as many women have had depression after having a baby, she might and will have to go on it again. I'm telling her husband and in laws to keep a close eye on her.
Thank you, Marlene.
hugs,meee
I worked with a dear lady ,she was a nurse and she suffered with depression. Cindy was a faithful follower of Christ. The head nuse told her she should be able to not be depressed and shouldn't take medicine for it. That was very hurtful to Cindy and caused her to doubt herself. We really must watch our words, as they have the power of life and death in them.
I needed to add this, thanks much,meee
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Meee, I hope you don't think that I was saying you were wrong or judging. Far be it for me to do that.
I got so far down in depression it cant in any words be described. I tried the drugs that Doctors will so freely give( anti-depressants and zanax and the list is a mile long of the drugs that do more damage than good. While on these drugs I started looking at sources higher than the medical industry, or at least more truthful about these drugs. You know, the stuff they dont want you to know. I came across a book titled The 10 most over prescribed drugs. All of the information was provided by the best Doctors in the world that doesnt care about incentives by the pharmaceutical industry such as paid vacations in the Bahamas if they will push theses drug. If people knew the truth about these drugs, the adverse side effects and the long term damage, I dont think they would want to take them or give them to their children.
The Doctors freely gave my wife Silvia,( Paxal ) for 10 years for depression just because she told them she was. She said she had tried many times to get off of it but would have serious side effects, thinking she was going crazy. It was 3 years ago that I met her and said you are not going to take these one more day. I flushed them down the toilet against her Doctors advice. Her Doctor and all of the other lieing deceitful Doctors always say its far too dangerous to stop abruptly. I said bull crap on you.
I held my wife for almost 10 days as she would cry and at times seem as if she was insane. Her emotions were indescribable to say the least. I find it so hard to believe that this country hasnt sued the pants off of the Doctors and pharmaceutical industry, but its because most just dont know the truth behind these drugs. Doctors know that they are not suppose to prescribe these drugs to people for depression unless they are almost insane. Did you know the most common side affect is depression if taken more than just a few months.
I have a friend that works for a Doctor that told me that more than 50% of the county she lives in is on anti depressants.
Back to Silvia, She may never be right again from the damage the Doctors have done to her. Its a crime what they do. The Doctors and medical industry makes billions a year saying depression is an illness and should be treated with their witches brew.
This is medical facts and truth, and not my opinion.
Doctors that freely give these drugs run pretty much neck to neck with the Babylonian preachers.
The truth is out there but they dont want you to know it.
All one has to do to get these drugs is go to any Doctor in the country and say Ive been feeling a little down and depressed, no evaluation done, no questions asked. Here you go, have some of this, its good for you and will fix you right up. Just what the Doctor ordered. However, there are some Doctors out there that wont give it to you unless your ready for restraint. An honest Doctor wont give it to you and thats the truth and all I have to say about that. Look for the truth,its out there.
In Christ
Roy
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This is just one of thousands of truths. Dont find it so hard to believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsBZw6q7uBU&feature=related
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This is a very timely topic for me with what is being discussed on the General Discussion Board - "Love your Enemies".
My family has had their own experiences with mental illness. My father disserted my family when I was 10 years old. He just up and left one day and took everything, monetarily, we had. He was located by my mom, by chance, when she was going through some old postcards that he had sent her from a fishing trip he had taken years and years prior. My aunt and uncle were dispatched to go get him and bring him back. Then began the terror...the man that returned was not my dad, he was a stranger, a lunatic, he didn't even look like himself anymore. That first night was one of the most horrific of my life, all sense of security had gone out the window. And for a 10 year old child it was tramatic. He spent one night at home before my mom and grandparents had him committed for observation. I don't really remember how long he was in the hospital, but I remember going there so my mom could meet with the doctors. He was diagnosed; metal breakdown, manic depression, alcoholic. And after his stay in the hospital, he did not come home to us. But he did continue to terrorize us and make our lives very difficult. At one point, when I was on a weekend visit to my grandparents, my mom had come to pick us up and my grandmother, knowing that she was coming called me father and had him come over. He showed up drunk and threatend to kill my sister and I so my mother couldn't have us. I remember being pushed out a back bedroom window in order to save our lives. I am just thankful that my sister was too young to remember all the pain and anguish he put our family through. Although she did not come out unscathed.
My grandparents always supported my father, and had little time for my mother and their grandchildren. My father was allowed to continue on with his lifestyle and life with little concern for how it would effect other people. He was financially supported by his parents and was able to collect disability payments from the government because he was eventually declared permanently disabled due to his alcoholism. He is today a 67 year old man that still drinks everyday, that is nothing that resembles the man that was once my father. He is possibly the most selfish individual I have ever met in my life. He has never once searched out help for his addictions other then to get more medication. He has always been babied by people, and in fact one of the montras for my mom, anytime I expressed anger has always been "Your father is sick", you need to have a relationship with him, "your father is sick", he is not responsible for his actions, you get the idea. There was never any justification for how the rest of us were fairing, if our feelings mattered, it was all about him. I haven't had a relationship with him since I was 12, but my sister and brother continue to have contact with him today.
All of us have been effected by his actions, my mom, brother, sister and I, and some of us has choosen to do something about it. About a year and a half ago, I hit a wall. It seemed like my life was on a roll... I was successful at my job, I had many things that I enjoy doing, and I have a family and friends that love me...everything seemed to be moving in the right direction. But in an instant, BAM! DEPRESSION struck me life someone had clocked me in the jaw and then came back and did it again. It seemed strange that everything had been going so well, but I had to look for some help. I starting to seeing a therapist (not my 1st time, but probably the most helpful) I won't go into all the gorry details, but it was many months of seeing someone weekly, going on anti-depressants to get through some bad times and coming to grips with what had happened to me as a child and how it had effected my life good and bad.
I realized that many people suffer from depression in their lives, not just me. That it is not a stigma and shouldn't be feared and hidden, as it was in my family. It shouldn't treated like there is an elephant in the room, but brought out into the open and addressed.
My father didn't have that luxury, no one ever got in his face and told him he had to get help. Instead he was coddled by his parents, and it did him no good. He did stop drinking for a short period of time when he was diagnosed and treated last year with Prostate Cancer, but it didn't stick. My grandparents left him with a very sizable amount of money when they both passed away 2-3 years ago, so he is set to continue on his path. It may be too late for him, only God will know the answer to that one. But if you can help someone now who you recognize needs help, please do.
Praying for understanding, forgiveness, and love~
NB
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I can by no means deny emotional illness. By all standards had it not been for God, I would be dead or locked in a padded room 10 years ago. I was depressed and wanted to die but that was not Gods plan for me. There is no way I could have killed myself. God wouldnt let me die. I once tied the gun to my hand and head before going to sleep hopeing I would pull the trigger while sleeping. I swallowed enough pills to kill 3 people and went to sleep just to be awakened by God 2 hours later as straight as I could be. I looked in the mirror and said God your not going to let me die are you? No one could help me and no one could have kept me from killing myself. Many tried to help me in every way you can think of and it got worse and worse.
It was as I said, everyone gave up on me except for God. I went through what I went through because that was Gods will. I was subjected to Satan and his demons and man it took me straight to the ground, a pit where I wallowed for years until God was ready for me to start crawling my way out. We can do nothing to help any one. We cant even help ourselves. Its God that is behind everything.
Compassion is a wonderful thing. Depression is a carnal thing. Mental illness that people are born with is different than depression. We talk our way into depression. We can talk our way out if thats what God wants.
Roy
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Praise God for you Roy!
meee, with luv & hugs
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Thank you Roy! NB
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Hi Space.Ace.Jase
I think when we lose sympathy for the plight of others we become the enemy. I would only hope my word to another would be one of love at all times. :)
Tre1
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Roy, you said, "Doctors that freely give these drugs run pretty much neck to neck with the Babylonian preachers."
Oh my, what a truth that is.
I think speaking truth to those who need to hear it is the most compassionate thing we can do. Recovery hurts. The tricky part is knowing if you are the one that needs to speak it. :-\ So obviously we need to listen to God.
But drugs cannot cure our carnal nature.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your replies I really appreciate it.
Roy I agree with you about the anti-depressants; I was on them for about a year and a half and while it felt like they helped a little it was mostly the therapy (and God's TRUTH of course) which is what brought me out of it.
You're right Roy, we cannot even help ourselves so how could we help anyone else. I need to stop trying to do it myself; I need God to do it. The funniest thing really now I think about it is how many times have I asked God to help my family member? Not once. I've been trying to save/help them; which is foolish.
NoviceBeliever that's really horrible :( Thank you for sharing; I pray that God will see you though your tough time :)
Thanks again guys; God bless ;D ;D
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Meee, I hope you don't think that I was saying you were wrong or judging.
In Christ
Roy
Hi Roy, I never thought you were judging.
My concern was , we can not be sure someone is merely on a pity party, so to speak. Kids kill themselves these days because they are being bullied,etc. and they think in their immature minds they can't live . So, to brush off lightly someones emotions and maybe saying the one thing that can push someone to commit suicide, or in other cases, kill someone else, isn't something I ever want to be the cause of. So, I wouldn't give advise because I don't know, no one can know for sure if the person needs medical help. Some do talk about suicide and then actually do it.
I don't agree with some things you have said, but that doesn't mean I judge you either my brother. It just means we disagree.
Some folks are so far gone and don't recognize God, if He were staring them in the face. They're deaf to Him, and unless He causes them to hear Him, they won't. It is all of God as we all keep saying.
For you, it turned out well, you had God and He wouldn't let you destroy yourself. Soooo, like I say, I do Praise God for you Roy.
You sis and friend in Christ, I do love ya Roy,meee
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Meee, I agree with you, but I have to be tough with my husband as I found out my loving compassion took him down the tube faster. Now, I say good things to him and validate what he is going through(becoming blind) and tell him I am with him till the end, something like God, but he doesn't want to hear about God. So, I try to do the things God would do and tell him life is a challenge and he must be brave for all the family(a reason to continue)and I will believe for him. Being alone is the biggest problem people with emotional problems have. I got him on anti-depressants but he quit taking them and I didn't force him otherwise. I always talk to the best in him and won't put up with confused thinking where God is concerned. Whatever I am doing along with God's help and prayers for him works, now if he would just quit drinking(impossible one for me) I know my limitations and whatever will be, will be(God's Sovreignty) Judy
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I wanted to thank each and everyone one of you for sharing your thoughts and experiences, as well as your prayers, on this topic. It is not something that I have found comes easily to share with others, but at the time I felt compelled deeply from within to open up about my experience.
Each person's path is entirely different to him. God put these things in my path to make me into the strong, self reliant, and compassionate person that I try to be. There is not a day that goes by that I don't thank God for all that he has shown me in my life and for every experience I have been through. It is only his way of directing me, guiding me, teaching me and loving me. It is awesome to wake up each day and look at this beautiful world and all the people in it and everything on this planet and derive such joy, laughter, and awe at what sourrounds us and know that God has done this all for us. Praise to HIM!
NB
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I don't think we can make sweeping general statements regarding depression and medication for depression.
I live with depression daily. It is not something that I can think my way out of. I have PTSD from life long trauma and my brain does not produce any "feel good' chemicals. God healed me of all the emotional damage caused by the trauma, but he hasn't healed my brain yet. I am content in life. I do not have any resentments or anger. I do not resent anything I have gone through. I am even content with my depression, but can't deny that it's with me daily. There are times I have to take anti-depressants short term or I won't be able to get up out of my chair even though my mind wants to do lots of things. Part of my severe depression turned out to be a low thyroid. When I started taking thyroid medication I had more energy. Some depression is brought on by physical problems.
My grandson who is 15 years old has chronic daily migraine headaches. He has had them since he was 6 years old and has been bedridden from them for most of his life. He can't go to school or go out and play like normal kids can. There were a couple of times he became very suicidal and depressed from his physical illness. I do believe anti-depressants were a miracle medication for him.
I've known many people with bipolar disease that have to take medication to stabilize their moods.
I've had 2 suicides in my family and they both mentioned suicide before taking their own lives. Mentioning suicide is not always an attempt for attention. Many times it's the only cry for help a suicidal person can muster up.
My son is an alcoholic/addict and I've had to set up strong boundaries with him and not let him dump his depression and blame on me. I've had to let him pay natural consequences for his addiction even though that brought him very close to death a few times. I've let him live homeless and left him in jail. I worked hard on my need to control and save him and learned to turn him over to God even though I am not good at it sometimes. The fear of him dying is a real challenge to my faith.
Each situation is different. There is a time for compassion and medical help and a time for tough love. I find myself praying for help and guidance from God in every situation with myself and those I love. Life can be very hard.
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Meee, I agree with you, but I have to be tough with my husband as I found out my loving compassion took him down the tube faster. Now, I say good things to him and validate what he is going through(becoming blind) and tell him I am with him till the end, something like God, but he doesn't want to hear about God. So, I try to do the things God would do and tell him life is a challenge and he must be brave for all the family(a reason to continue)and I will believe for him. Being alone is the biggest problem people with emotional problems have. I got him on anti-depressants but he quit taking them and I didn't force him otherwise. I always talk to the best in him and won't put up with confused thinking where God is concerned. Whatever I am doing along with God's help and prayers for him works, now if he would just quit drinking(impossible one for me) I know my limitations and whatever will be, will be(God's Sovreignty) Judy
Yes, that's what it's all about , building up and not tearing down. Your hubby is a fortunate man to have you for his wife. Of Course God put you together,so it's all of Him, but you are obedient to how to treat your man.
Thanks Judy ,hugs,meee
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MG, you've got a plate full, for sure.
My sister 's son is an alcoholic and she has done with him pretty much as you have with your son.
I'll pray for your grandson for healing of the migraine headaches.
Thanks for sharing this, I'll pray for you all.
hugs & luv,meee
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M.G. You also have my prayers, and I hope no one thinks Im a bad guy for sharing how it worked for me, and the truth about the drugs of which I know has destroyed the lives of many people that I know personally, some family, some friends and others that are cases in point from studies Ive done. The numbers are unbelievable. I dont deny that there are justifiable reasons for some to have these drugs, but once taken, the brain will never function normally under stressful situations. God be with anyone that takes these drugs.
In Christ
Roy
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I hope no one thinks Im a bad guy for sharing how it worked for me, and the truth about the drugs of which I know has destroyed the lives of many people that I know personally, some family, some friends and others that are cases in point from studies Ive done. The numbers are unbelievable. I dont deny that there are justifiable reasons for some to have these drugs, but once taken, the brain will never function normally under stressful situations. God be with anyone that takes these drugs.
In Christ
Roy
Roy, no one would judge or fault you, I certainly do not. You spoke from what you know, and you are pasionate about it. You've had much more to deal with than I have this far, and your experience still seems very fresh.
I want to tell you I am sorry for having caused you any more pain , if I did. I know memories can hurt and you sure didn't need me being disagreeable.
I just had to tell how I feel, because somtimes one wrong word can be someones end. I hope you can forgive and not hold it against me.
meee
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Dear Meee
You are an exceptionally sweet and precious person. You haven't hurt me in any way, none what so ever. You are a pure blessing to me. Everyone here is a blessing.
I can tell just from what I read that its not in you to hurt anyone.
I love you my sister in Christ. ;D :D
Roy
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M.G.,
i too will be praying for you and your family. you are right in that every situation is different, and some depression is caused by medical conditions. case in point is bipolar disorder. that is surely one mental illness where the brain does not function properly whether there are stressful or nonstressful situations. the medications available can help that disease's specific brain disorder allowing the patient to function. roy martin is speaking truth when he said that many doctors don't do any of the specific testing available to accurately diagnose depression and the specific degrees of depression. these same docs hand out antidepressants too easily because of drug company reps who load them up with free samples because the drug companies push the reps to push the drugs. but, not all depression is a pity party as m.g. has affirmed in her story. again, like m.g. said, every situation is different.
claudia
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Through teary eyes, I thank you Roy!
meee