=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Laura on January 24, 2010, 02:49:46 AM

Title: Question?
Post by: Laura on January 24, 2010, 02:49:46 AM

I came across this link on BT that gives a list of all the spurious passages, Kat had said "From the compilerís point of view there exist very good reasons why everything in this list should be crossed out of our Bibles. Thus, when the interpolations are eliminated from Mark 14:30, 68, 72, the account agrees exactly with that given by the other evangelists. Or, take Luke 23:34: history shows that the Jews have been obliged as a race to expiate their crime". Here's that link,,6638.0.html

What I am trying to understand is whether or not we should or shouldn't cross these passages out? I ask this, because in Ray's teaching on "The Origin of Satan, Evil, and Sin" he cites Luke 23:34 as something that we should meditate on.

Here's what Ray wrote:

"Now then, are you ready for the Scripture? Are these cruel murderers of the very Son of God evil enough to be counted the worst of the worst sinners who have ever drawn breath? Even more evil than Ted Bundy?

First, does anyone doubt that God the Father ALWAYS heard Christís prayers? "Father, I thank thee that Thou HAST HEARD me. And I knew that thou HEAREST ME ALWAYS..." (John 11:41-42). Okay then, hereís the Scripture:

"And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they [everyone -- you, me, the WHOLE WORLD] CRUCIFIED HIM..." [/b] But before our Saviour died, He prayed this prayer:

"FATHER ... FORGIVE THEM ... for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:33-34).

Meditate on that verse for a few hours -- or years! My prayer is that not one person reading this paper will ever forget this verse and Christís prayer for the forgiveness of the world's worst of the worst sinners, before any of them even thought to repent."

I'm just confused, why would we meditate on this passage if it is spurioius? So should or shouldn't we?
Title: Re: Question?
Post by: Akira329 on January 24, 2010, 06:15:07 AM
Hey Laura,

Whether this verse is here or not, does not negate the fact that Jesus died for the remission(forgivness) of sins.
For the purpose of scriptural accuracy I wouldn't include the verse. We just don't know whether Jesus said this or not.

Though it is a true statement,

Jesus did forgive them and is continuing to forgive people! So is the Father!
There are many other scriptures that speak of this truth:
Mat 26:28  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Luk 24:46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luk 24:47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48  And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49  And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Rom 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

To me, sense it is a true statement I will do this:
Php 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Laura I hope this helps
Title: Re: Question?
Post by: tinknocker on January 24, 2010, 07:02:21 AM
Hi Laura

I emailed Ray with basically the same question your asking back in Dec. 2006
(copy of email sent to Ray below)

Ray, I was reading at this site (link deleted) concerning Bible translations. Professor C. Tischendorf did a comparison of the King James Bible and the Sinaitic Manuscripts and then listed the differences. One of the verses that is not in the Sinaitic Manuscripts is Luke 23:43. Just thought you would be interested in knowing this since you quote this verse.
In Christ

I did not save Ray's response but I remember three things that he did mention.

1) Other manuscripts besides the Sinaitic do include this verse
2) This verse does not contradict any other verse in the whole of the Bible nor do any other verses contradict this verse.
3) Jesus life, death and resurrection testify to this verse as being true

He made other points in his email back to me but these are the ones that I remember.
Hope this helps

Title: Re: Question?
Post by: Laura on January 24, 2010, 03:27:38 PM
Thank you both for your replies. As far as I am concerned, subject closed. I like the answers.