bible-truths.com/forums

=> General Discussions => Topic started by: moshe on August 06, 2013, 10:19:50 PM

Title: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 06, 2013, 10:19:50 PM

In many occasions in the Scriptures ‘spirit’ denotes an attitude (1Cor.4:21). Also there is a no-conscious spirit within all humans that keeps them alive (Gen.2:7). And there are conscious spirits beings that live on the spiritual realm (Hebrews 1:7).

God the Almighty Creator, have more than one spirit. One of them is the spirit that is within all humans to keep them alive, another one is His ‘SPIRIT OF HOLLINES’ or also called ‘SPIRIT OF TRUTH’ that imparts knowledge and wisdom to those who have it.

I would like to share what I have thought about this term of ‘’spirit as the spirit of holiness of God Himself’’, and be open for clarification, correction or confirmation.

So, God is spirit (John 4:24), but He is unlike any other spirit (Isaiah 44:6); because He is a CONSCIOUS spirit who owns different spirits. God’s power is incomparable higher to any other spirit being, and He can also do all that He pleases (Isaiah 44:6).

God the Almighty Creator have a sacred spirit that is like no other; this is the holy spirit OF Him. Just imagine it as a the greatest force, the mayor condensation of energy ever recorded, a massive power way beyond the greatest amount of known power that only GOD Almighty can be able to control, after all… this is God’s spirit, an no-conscious spirit that also have characteristics that can be able to highly influence people minds and hearts  greatly.

According to the Scriptures, God gives CERTAIN AMOUNTS of this spirit of Him to certain persons that he chooses on each generation on the history of the world since Jesus Christ was physically here on earth. The effects of this spirit are visible in all goodness, righteousness and truth. Jesus Christ had this spirit without measure and the first communities of believers also received certain amounts of this supernatural spirit of truth:

‘‘the spirit of truth, which the world cannot get, for it is not beholding it, neither is knowing it. Yet you know it, for it is remaining with you and will be IN YOU (Here Jesus is talking about the time after his resurrection).’’  (John 14:17 Diaglott-NT)

Other symptoms of having the influence of this spirit of truth in your mind and heart is gentleness, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, faithfulness, meekness, and self control.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________


Now. Here is some new information I have been thinking regarding this ‘‘spirit as the holy spirit of God’’, which I find very interesting.

If sometimes the term spirit can denote an attitude, could it be possible that the holy spirit of God can denote and be better understood as one consistent ‘‘story’’ that we must live in? Which would be the true understanding and BELIEF of the story of the salvation of all along with its more important consequences?

Think about it, stories are powerful, they give energy and bravery. The belief on powerful stories can even be able to produce chemicals in our brains that help people to get better when they are sick.

I think that many times the term ‘‘holy spirit’ is such a difficult term to explain, we usually have the idea on our minds and take for granted that we know what it means but is just so hard to explain it.

What I am trying to do here is to put into words the meaning of this concept on a more easy way to understand.   

EVERYTHING is of God, and if I am right on this one, as long as I stay truthful to this story and LIVE it, then I can be able to say that I have the Spirit of God.
Right?

Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: se7en on August 07, 2013, 01:13:31 PM
Moises,

I know what your what your meaning. I've asked God this same type of question. We relate to each other via communication. And what is communication? We tell stories. We relate information to each other by speaking words or visually telling a story. Word's are very important. Words form ideas and doctrines, topple kingdoms and erect new ones.

God's Word is one big parable, one big story. I really like John's reply "As Paul told the Athenians on Mars' Hill, in God we live, move, and have our being." And exactly what you said Moises... "EVERYTHING is of God". Those were pagan Athenians that Paul was speaking to. We ALL live and move and breathe and have our being in Christ, everyone. But to have Christ inside us... that's different. I hope i'm communicating effectively here (telling a story)..... We all are in Christ, but to have Christ inside us, is to de-throne that son of perdition (the beast, me) and put Christ on the throne in the temple. This is all Christ's work of course! None of this is by our strength or any of our doing.

We live out the story through Word which is the Spirit, Jesus Christ, Truth. He is THE CHRIST, and we are His christ's. He is The Anointed and we are the anointed of The Anointed. We've been given the ears to hear and the eyes to see the Truth behind the physical shadow story.

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (and we know from study that the word 'eternal' is the word 'aion').

Stories are how we communicate! When we live and tell God's story, we are speaking Truth and know God. When we don't, we live the shadow of the Truth.

I know what you mean Moises G. I used to think for many years that God as a spirit being was some large old man in spirit that I couldn't see way out in space or something, but that's not the truth. His WORD is Spirit. not the physical ink on a piece of paper or the digital ones and zero's that form a word in a computer but the MEANING behind those words. The Spirit. The meaning behind the parable... The meaning behind the story. If God's Word remains in us, then we Know God and He sits in the temple on the throne and not the beast. We die daily, we are being destroyed so that Christ is preimmenent. The more we die to our story/our life, our way of thinking and the more we think like Christ, it's no longer we who live.... BUT CHRIST LIVES IN US!!! It's HIS story being lived out in us. I become a member of His body.

It is through the Word/Holy Spirit/Jesus Christ that we come to know Truth and relate Truth to other's by living the parable, the story, the Spirit. It's an attitude, a belief, a way of thinking, a way of living a way of moving. Without this story (Jesus Christ), no one would ever exist. The script is already written, we are now acting it out.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

I think your right Moises, this parable (story) we live out is the Spirit/Word of the Father and the Son in us... IF Christ is in us. Otherwise, we live the shadow of the story (because everyone lives and moves).  Don't get me wrong, while still in this flesh, I'm walking through the shadow of the valley of death. But internally, inside, we are being graced and chastised into the kingdom. We are being taught to think like He does but the flesh is as good as dead.

Matt 13:34 All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them.

Mark 4:34 But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them…”

John 10:6 This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.

He spoke the Word/Spirit to them in parables (story form) so that those who are blind may see and those who see may be blind.

It's just how God does things to bring about the salvation of the whole world. It's AWESOME!!!
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: gerard_dsouza on August 07, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
Hi Moises,
You posted good thoughts, and you are correct in your thought process.
I like this thought of yours:
Quote
Other symptoms of having the influence of this spirit of truth in your mind and heart is gentleness, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, faithfulness, meekness, and self control.

This is awesome, yes, this is a clear proof that you have the Spirit of God. Also in a sense, we become one with the Spirit of God and we began to understand the Father's heart and his emotions and his purpose to all around us, when we start to get Grace from God to have the fruits you mentioned. Only God can give that to us.
Be encouraged and continue sharing. Remember God only gives Grace to the humble and resist the proud. This is a divine principle and no one can stop you or hinder you to receive from God if you are humble, it will just receive Grace without even asking, as it says he gives Grace to the humble.
Pursue to receive Grace from God and for that only condition is to be humble.
Gerry
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 07, 2013, 07:08:53 PM
John.

all you said doesnt contradict anything I said. I agree with what you said. When I see that you have posted. I usually expect controversy. which is not a bad thing.

And yes I can back up what I said regarding God having more than one spirit. actually if you re-read my post you will see that I have already.

I will post again soon. just need the time...
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Joel on August 07, 2013, 10:55:43 PM
Greetings Moises,
I can see where you are coming from, some scriptures came to mind as I read your post.

Revelations 5:6-And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beast, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Isaiah 11:2-And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom, and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord:

Joel
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: cjwood on August 08, 2013, 02:14:40 AM

In your 2nd paragraph above you state God has more than one spirit.  Can you quote at least two scriptures in support of that opinion.






hi moises.  regarding john from kentucky's above statement to you, i remembered some scripture references i recently read through when re-reading revelation, regarding the Spirits of God.  they are; revelation 1:4, 4:5, and isaiah 11:2-5. 

love in Christ,
claudia




Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Kat on August 08, 2013, 11:24:35 AM

I would like to mention something to consider.  I wonder if the "seven spirits" in Revelation would be symbolic of God's completeness/fullness, as we know that "7" is a symbolic number of completeness. That would show how these 'spirits' symbolize all of the methods/functions/doings/workings etc to accomplish His purpose.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: ez2u on August 08, 2013, 02:33:24 PM
one tree truck many branches
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: dave on August 08, 2013, 03:07:48 PM

I would like to mention something to consider.  I wonder if the "seven spirits" in Revelation would be symbolic of God's completeness/fullness, as we know that "7" is a symbolic number of completeness. That would show how these 'spirits' symbolize all of the methods/functions/doings/workings etc to accomplish His purpose.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 :)
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: loretta on August 08, 2013, 03:36:26 PM
One spirit, many manifestations?
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: microlink on August 08, 2013, 04:35:01 PM
Hi all,
Eph 4:4-6 tells us that there is ONE Spirit. The Holy Spirit as John points out in his post. ONE and only ONE Also Kat mentions the symbolism that these seven spirits very likely represent. The scriptures below would tend to confirm that symbolism. 

Zec_3:9  For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Zec_4:2  And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
Zec_4:10  For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Rev_4:5  And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev_5:6  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

p.s. It is amazing how many times the word seven is used in the Holy Scriptures in many instances denoting completeness/ fullness/ perfection. I did a quick count using e-sword and found well over 400 occurrences. And 91 in the NT.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Joel on August 08, 2013, 08:52:45 PM
1st Corinthians 12 shows that oneness and completeness.
4-Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5-And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6.And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.


Joel
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Dave in Tenn on August 08, 2013, 09:07:04 PM
and to add the fruit of the (One) Spirit:

Gal 5:22  ...the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Eph 5:8  For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9  (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10  Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
 
 
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: se7en on August 09, 2013, 01:46:02 PM
Ooooh, I see the question your asking....

One spirit, but many diversities and applications of that one spirit. But it is one spirit working in everything.

God sends out evil spirits (My word is spirit) to accomplish what they are supposed to do. God's word kills and heals, He creates light out of the darkness, deceives and brings truth... etc, etc. ALL is out of God through Christ.

But it's all to "be making mankind in our image".  With the end result of salvation and God being all in all. :)

Is that what you were meaning Moises?
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: dave on August 09, 2013, 10:47:37 PM

In many occasions in the Scriptures ‘spirit’ denotes an attitude (1Cor.4:21). Also there is a no-conscious spirit within all humans that keeps them alive (Gen.2:7). And there are conscious spirits beings that live on the spiritual realm (Hebrews 1:7).

God the Almighty Creator, have more than one spirit. One of them is the spirit that is within all humans to keep them alive, another one is His ‘SPIRIT OF HOLLINES’ or also called ‘SPIRIT OF TRUTH’ that imparts knowledge and wisdom to those who have it.

I would like to share what I have thought about this term of ‘’spirit as the spirit of holiness of God Himself’’, and be open for clarification, correction or confirmation.

So, God is spirit (John 4:24), but He is unlike any other spirit (Isaiah 44:6); because He is a CONSCIOUS spirit who owns different spirits. God’s power is incomparable higher to any other spirit being, and He can also do all that He pleases (Isaiah 44:6).

God the Almighty Creator have a sacred spirit that is like no other; this is the holy spirit OF Him. Just imagine it as a the greatest force, the mayor condensation of energy ever recorded, a massive power way beyond the greatest amount of known power that only GOD Almighty can be able to control, after all… this is God’s spirit, an no-conscious spirit that also have characteristics that can be able to highly influence people minds and hearts  greatly.

According to the Scriptures, God gives CERTAIN AMOUNTS of this spirit of Him to certain persons that he chooses on each generation on the history of the world since Jesus Christ was physically here on earth. The effects of this spirit are visible in all goodness, righteousness and truth. Jesus Christ had this spirit without measure and the first communities of believers also received certain amounts of this supernatural spirit of truth:

‘‘the spirit of truth, which the world cannot get, for it is not beholding it, neither is knowing it. Yet you know it, for it is remaining with you and will be IN YOU (Here Jesus is talking about the time after his resurrection).’’  (John 14:17 Diaglott-NT)

Other symptoms of having the influence of this spirit of truth in your mind and heart is gentleness, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, faithfulness, meekness, and self control.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________


Now. Here is some new information I have been thinking regarding this ‘‘spirit as the holy spirit of God’’, which I find very interesting.

If sometimes the term spirit can denote an attitude, could it be possible that the holy spirit of God can denote and be better understood as one consistent ‘‘story’’ that we must live in? Which would be the true understanding and BELIEF of the story of the salvation of all along with its more important consequences?

Think about it, stories are powerful, they give energy and bravery. The belief on powerful stories can even be able to produce chemicals in our brains that help people to get better when they are sick.

I think that many times the term ‘‘holy spirit’ is such a difficult term to explain, we usually have the idea on our minds and take for granted that we know what it means but is just so hard to explain it.

What I am trying to do here is to put into words the meaning of this concept on a more easy way to understand.   

EVERYTHING is of God, and if I am right on this one, as long as I stay truthful to this story and LIVE it, then I can be able to say that I have the Spirit of God.
Right?


I, truly believe you have been given a view that many of us(I should say me) long for. I believe that you have scratched a surface that I have thought about many times. There is but ONE Spirit, that is the Lord God, and Jesus being one with the Father was overwhelmed with that Spirit, it was the only "thing" that caused His decisions. He could do nothing else, but the Will of the Father, because He loved His Father above His life. We, who believe, seek that overwhelming, but we are but His creation, not made like the Son Jesus, only in the true sense that we must learn as...  Heb 12:9  Then, indeed, fathers of our flesh we have had, chastising us , and we were reverencing them ; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of the spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10  for they, indeed, for a few days, according to what seemed good to them, were chastening, but He for profit, to be partakers of His separation;
Heb 12:11  and all chastening for the present, indeed, doth not seem to be of joy, but of sorrow, yet afterward the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those exercised through it--it doth yield.
this I believe is the race Paul ran and that we must run.
The whole chapter is instruction.
I am uplifted, thank you.


Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 09, 2013, 11:16:45 PM

When God first breathed the breath of life (spirit) on the human body, man became a ‘living soul’ (Gen.2:7). What this spirit did is to give life into the body and then produced soul. So there is a spirit within all humans that keeps them alive.

This spirit that gives life doesn’t have conscious on its own. When we die the spirit returns to God, the owner of it:

‘‘Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.’’ (Ec. 12:7)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I find myself on the forum:

Every person (and animal) has a “spirit.”  There is no life without spirit. At death OUR spirit return to our

God Who gave it to us. Spirit does not die. But, spirit has no consciousness of its own. It must be united

with a body. That is why there is coming a Resurrection of the DEAD. Adam’s body had the spirit of God

breathed into it and then Adam became a LIVING SOUL.  God’s Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which

imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers

have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they

do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord. ETc. Sorry, but it would

take days to answer your question in detail.

Ray

Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 09, 2013, 11:26:56 PM

Also, the entire bottom half of your post sounds like your philosophy.  Do you have two scriptures in support of any of your statements contained therein?



John. That something is someones philosophy; doesn't mean that it has to be automatically wrong. That there is not free-will is my philosophy of life and I am right on that one.

If you think I am wrong, I am open to be proven wrong. I wasn't trying to teach something new, and therefore I don't want to back up all the details of what I said in there. Actually I was just looking for one example to be able to understand the concept of 'holy spirit' better (that's all), and was only speaking my mind and I am glad I did since I got many good replys.

Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 09, 2013, 11:29:12 PM
Moises,

I know what your what your meaning. I've asked God this same type of question. We relate to each other via communication. And what is communication? We tell stories. We relate information to each other by speaking words or visually telling a story. Word's are very important. Words form ideas and doctrines, topple kingdoms and erect new ones.

God's Word is one big parable, one big story. I really like John's reply "As Paul told the Athenians on Mars' Hill, in God we live, move, and have our being." And exactly what you said Moises... "EVERYTHING is of God". Those were pagan Athenians that Paul was speaking to. We ALL live and move and breathe and have our being in Christ, everyone. But to have Christ inside us... that's different. I hope i'm communicating effectively here (telling a story)..... We all are in Christ, but to have Christ inside us, is to de-throne that son of perdition (the beast, me) and put Christ on the throne in the temple. This is all Christ's work of course! None of this is by our strength or any of our doing.

We live out the story through Word which is the Spirit, Jesus Christ, Truth. He is THE CHRIST, and we are His christ's. He is The Anointed and we are the anointed of The Anointed. We've been given the ears to hear and the eyes to see the Truth behind the physical shadow story.

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (and we know from study that the word 'eternal' is the word 'aion').

Stories are how we communicate! When we live and tell God's story, we are speaking Truth and know God. When we don't, we live the shadow of the Truth.

I know what you mean Moises G. I used to think for many years that God as a spirit being was some large old man in spirit that I couldn't see way out in space or something, but that's not the truth. His WORD is Spirit. not the physical ink on a piece of paper or the digital ones and zero's that form a word in a computer but the MEANING behind those words. The Spirit. The meaning behind the parable... The meaning behind the story. If God's Word remains in us, then we Know God and He sits in the temple on the throne and not the beast. We die daily, we are being destroyed so that Christ is preimmenent. The more we die to our story/our life, our way of thinking and the more we think like Christ, it's no longer we who live.... BUT CHRIST LIVES IN US!!! It's HIS story being lived out in us. I become a member of His body.

It is through the Word/Holy Spirit/Jesus Christ that we come to know Truth and relate Truth to other's by living the parable, the story, the Spirit. It's an attitude, a belief, a way of thinking, a way of living a way of moving. Without this story (Jesus Christ), no one would ever exist. The script is already written, we are now acting it out.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

I think your right Moises, this parable (story) we live out is the Spirit/Word of the Father and the Son in us... IF Christ is in us. Otherwise, we live the shadow of the story (because everyone lives and moves).  Don't get me wrong, while still in this flesh, I'm walking through the shadow of the valley of death. But internally, inside, we are being graced and chastised into the kingdom. We are being taught to think like He does but the flesh is as good as dead.

Matt 13:34 All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them.

Mark 4:34 But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them…”

John 10:6 This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.

He spoke the Word/Spirit to them in parables (story form) so that those who are blind may see and those who see may be blind.

It's just how God does things to bring about the salvation of the whole world. It's AWESOME!!!

Thanks for this.

A lot of this things where already on my mind.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 09, 2013, 11:31:54 PM
Hi Moises,
You posted good thoughts, and you are correct in your thought process.
I like this thought of yours:
Quote
Other symptoms of having the influence of this spirit of truth in your mind and heart is gentleness, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, faithfulness, meekness, and self control.

This is awesome, yes, this is a clear proof that you have the Spirit of God. Also in a sense, we become one with the Spirit of God and we began to understand the Father's heart and his emotions and his purpose to all around us, when we start to get Grace from God to have the fruits you mentioned. Only God can give that to us.
Be encouraged and continue sharing. Remember God only gives Grace to the humble and resist the proud. This is a divine principle and no one can stop you or hinder you to receive from God if you are humble, it will just receive Grace without even asking, as it says he gives Grace to the humble.
Pursue to receive Grace from God and for that only condition is to be humble.
Gerry

Thanks Gerry

I am trying not be proud, sometimes it's just so hard.
God have mercy on me...

Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Dave in Tenn on August 10, 2013, 04:18:34 AM
The statement "God has many spirits" is at best confusing, because it's not a Scriptural statement but an attempt at explaining something.  I'll cut Moises some slack because English is not his first language, and I'll take him at his word that his post was not an attempt to introduce "new" teaching.  The statement has been well replied to and addressed by others.

I'm inclined to leave the thread open for now, though it is straining hard at the rules of the forum. 

   
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: cjwood on August 10, 2013, 10:26:10 PM
jfk, sometimes your brashness is hard to swallow.  can you say honestly that you confronted moises' statements out of an attitude of brotherly love, or more from a perspective of haughtiness???  ray smith loved moises with a deep brotherly love, spending time in study with moises in ray's own home.  ray would have addressed moises with love and mercy, IF there was a need.  i do not see those attributes in your comments.  and to accuse those of us who posted Scripture regarding the spirits of God as "cheerleaders', is showing a lack of brotherly love to us also.

claudia

Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: microlink on August 10, 2013, 11:12:07 PM
I find it refreshing and enlightening to see us challenging one another on the forum in love and with a firm desire to learn from one another and to love one another as we must do.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Kat on August 11, 2013, 09:58:58 AM

The thing is that if somebody wants to elaborate on something that Ray taught, then they also need to use the same care he took in representing what the Scriptures say. Ray took great pain to make sure that what he spoke was precisely what the Scripture was saying, what ALL the Scripture was saying.

So when posting we need to be ready to respond to all the questions and criticism we may get... by a "multitude of counselors" we can be more certain.

Pro 11:14  Where there is no counsel, the people fall;
       But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.

We also have a broad readership and need to seek great accuracy from the Scripture, using the method Ray taught of a second witness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
 
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: onelovedread on August 11, 2013, 10:33:30 AM
I don't want to stir up any quarrel, you all make valid points (Claudia, JFK and Kat).

What I do know is that as someone who is a bit slower to understand and not as skillful in expressing points, I should feel from the forum members, that when I'm off base, correction ought to be applied in a loving and encouraging, even if firm way.

We are at different levels of maturity on this forum. Many of us have been gently rebuked and instructed by the "elders" to go back and study again Ray's teachings for the answers to basic questions that we have appeared to miss completely.

Dave also made the point that due to constraints of learning English as a second language, some points may come over as a bit unclear. Shouldn't we then show a little more patience, so that we don't discourage each other.

That said, I'm sure that Moises isn't put off by JFK who takes pride in being edgy. ;D.
But with the utmost respect for all (yes you too JFK   ;D), I think Claudia has made a point that we should all consider and apply.

But who am I? Not an expert or authority. Just a dreadlocked brother who declares, "One Love"!
 ;D 8) ;)
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 11, 2013, 07:42:01 PM

God knows that it’s not my intention to bring heresy to the forum or anywhere else. My conscience is clean that I am trying my best to understand these difficult concepts and if I am wrong; I will admit it and move on.
Anyway

Here are quotes from Scripture and Ray’s emails (in blue) that talk in more detail about what I was saying:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Soul, body, spirit (the human spirit has no conscience on its own)

‘‘The "soul" is the seat of sensation, CONSCIOUSNESS, AND FEELINGS, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).

A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of CONSCIOUSNESS, FEELINGS, AND EMOTIONS. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.’’ 



‘‘And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground (the body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (the spirit); and man became A LIVING SOUL. (a living human being)’’ (Gen. 2:7)


‘‘The spirit HAS NO CONSCIOUSNESS, not even in life. When a doctor puts someone under to operate, the person is NOT DEAD, he still has his spirit, but he has NO CONSCIOUSNESS. We need a brain to have soul and consciousness. When someone shoots you through the brain, you LOSE YOUR SOUL.’’


‘‘You have to get out of out if your head the idea that the spirit soul and body are "separate entities" as if they could function independently of each other.  Remember my TV analogy of six years ago?  The console is the body, the picture is the soul, and the electricity is the spirit. Yes, they are "entities," if you will that have distinct names, and functions, but none of them produces anything independent of each other. Smash the console and you have not soul (picture). Pull the plug and you have not soul (picture). 
Likewise remove the spirit, and the body dies. Remove the spirit and the soul disappears.
Smash the body and the soul disappears. The soul IS THE SENTIENT man. The emotional, thinking, conscious man. This consciousness is called "soul."  It is not a thing that can literally travel or go somewhere independent of the body and brain. That is why it is said in the Greek Scriptures that at death the soul goes to hades. Hades means the unseen, the emperceptible, unconsciousness.
It take spirit from God in a body to give it live, which life is then called "a LIVING SOUL."
It takes a little meditation to understand these concepts.’’


-God is a conscious spirit and He can own spirits. The Holy Spirit, is His spirit of holiness, (and yes; there is only ONE holy spirit)

‘‘Jesus is the Personification of the Holy Spirit (His SPIRIT FATHER living IN Him). Therefore, the Person Jesus is the “He and the Him,” not the Spirit of God in Him. God the Father OWNS, if you will, His OWN Spirit. It belongs TO Him. IT is HIS. The Holy Spirit DOES NOT OWN GOD THE FATHER. Can you see and understand that? God HAS a spirit. The Holy Spirit DOES NOT HAVE A GOD, therefore, it is an IT, and not a HE or a HIM. ’’


‘‘I never said that no spirit has consciousness. OUR spirit has no consciousness. God IS Spirit and God is conscious, but we are NOT GOD. We only have a form of spirit in us to keep us alive. When converted God gives us yet ANOTHER SPIRIT which is called the HOLY Spirit, and it effects out consciousness, but does not keep us conscious at death, as that requires resurrection.’’


‘‘Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without “spirit.” Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man’s spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of “soul.” We are said to have new “spiritual” bodies, not that we are made “spirits.”’’


- There is a borrowed spirit (from God) in all humans and animals which keeps them alive,


‘‘Every person (and animal) has a “spirit.”  There is no life without spirit. At death OUR spirit return to our God Who gave it to us. Spirit does not die. But, spirit has no consciousness of its own. It must be united with a body. That is why there is coming a Resurrection of the DEAD. Adam’s body had the spirit of God (Note: This was not His Holy Spirit, therefore God own more than one spirit) breathed into it and then Adam became a LIVING SOUL.  God’s Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive (Note: same spirit that gave life to Adam, and EVERYBODY else), but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord. ETc. Sorry, but it would take days to answer your question in detail.’’


‘‘ALL men (and animals) have a spirit. This spirit gives life to the body and produces soul (feelings, thinking, emotions, etc.). But God dwells in our hearts and minds by way of His HOLY Spirit, which is a different spirit.’’

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it (Because it was borrowed-ALL is of God) (Ecc. 12:7).


-Therefore God is EVERYWHERE (ALL is from God, we in Him and for Him and through Him):


‘‘So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father? In Him we live and breath and have our being. Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish.  The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light. It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen. So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God. The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.


Now this is what the Scriptures say, we are in God and God is in us. So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair. God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.

David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12).
There’s no place I can go, where you are not. Why?  God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head. He (God) tells us that, God is not a man... Jesus Christ is a man.

Where is God?  EVERYWHERE!’’


Meditate about it…    if spirit is life…   and God has given enough of this spirit of Him to all living things to keep them alive; THEN… there is a little bit of God in all living creatures, which means that God is EVERYWHERE! (Psalms 139:7-12).
If we put enough attention, we will start to see a little bit of God ANYWHERE!

Moises


Ps. All these quotes posted before by others (1 Cor. 8:6, Ephesians 4:4-6, 1st Corinthians 12, Gal 5:22, Gal 5:23, Eph 5:8, Eph 5:9, Eph 5:10) doesn’t contradict what I have just posted.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Mbongiseni on August 13, 2013, 07:04:21 AM
Hi all

I love the way the 'story' came out! Its a blessing to imbibe such thruths.
This thread like so many others, to me, is full of the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of truth.I like
the manner in wich Moises put it and more clearly se7en's understanding. The story comes out
in parables yet its the same story, in diversity yet unity, like diverse body parts of one body.

Keep up the good spirit.
Mbongiseni
 

 
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: loretta on August 13, 2013, 09:03:46 AM
Quote
;D  I think I'll change my name to Hagar the Horrible.

Hagar the what?  I liked this character sketch I found on Wikipedia.  Most of us can certainly identify with Hagar at some point in our lives!  :) :) :)   

Quote
Hägar's simplistic, childlike cluelessness, often finding himself at odds with his more sensible family members. Much to Hägar's chagrin, on the few occasions where he behaves maturely (such as helping Helga in daily tasks or displaying self-control of his titanic appetite), the other characters are often caught off guard, since they are more accustomed with his bumbling and childish attitude. The most notable example was when Helga demanded that Hägar speak the truth at least one time, Hägar agrees and does so, something that pleasantly surprises even God himself, who promptly makes angels playing the trumpets in celebration of this "miracle". Emphasis mine

As a newbie to scriptural truths and the BT forum, I was confused after reading Moises’ first post.  It came across as very esoteric, and quite unlike Ray’s teaching.  Without exception, Ray’s teachings are refreshingly clear and lucid and takes away any notion that understanding scriptural truths calls for a high degree of spirituality and/or spiritual expression. (Even my teen daughter would understand Ray's papers although God would have to take off the blinders before she accepted the truth). So I was relieved when JfK pointed out the basic rule of second witness in support of what he called an opinion/philosophy.  To be honest, I didn’t quite follow most of the conversation in this thread and it was reminiscent of my former days in Christendom, except for when, I believe, some well meaning souls chipped in and tried to take the conversation in a meaningful direction.  Although I cringe at the thought of being put under a spiritual microscope myself, it has served me well and I have learnt not to air my personal revelations (and I have many!) that have no scriptural basis on a forum that is open to varying levels of maturity.  That is why I was surprised to find out that Moises had been learning at Ray’s feet, so to speak, and which was probably the reason for JfK’s exasperation and name calling! :)  Moises, I don't mean to cause you any offense, I love you as a brother, but I still don't get what you are trying to say, despite all the bold lettering.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 13, 2013, 11:23:01 PM
loretta.
I have already play by the rules and got my two witness on what I was asked for. It is a dificult subject I know. What I wanted to prove is in simple sentences in red letters and the blue letters are not mine.

Here is just  last simple question for you.

If God put His spirit in adam so that he would become a living soul.    Are we to believe that He puted His holy spirit on him?

what is so wrong or esoteric if God have more than one spirit? It doesn't contradict other Scriptures. If spirit is life;it makes sense.

Ok. I am done.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: loretta on August 14, 2013, 01:14:41 AM

Quote
If God put His spirit in adam so that he would become a living soul.    Are we to believe that He puted His holy spirit on him?

Ah, now you are beginning to get a bit coherent Moises! :)

I don't have an answer to your question.  Better leave it to the bereans, otherwise this thread will go in another direction... Guess, that's how we ended up with the doctrine of the Trinity! :)  But definitely, something to meditate upon.  It would be helpful if you gave us the link to Ray's paper so we could read it in its entirety.

Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Kat on August 14, 2013, 02:46:13 PM
Here is just  last simple question for you.

If God put His spirit in adam so that he would become a living soul.    Are we to believe that He puted His holy spirit on him?

what is so wrong or esoteric if God have more than one spirit? It doesn't contradict other Scriptures. If spirit is life;it makes sense.

As Loretta pointed out, Moises has a valid question here. So what spirit did Adam have.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Gen 7:22  All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died.

Adam had the same "spirit of life" that all living breathing creature have.

Job 33:4  The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

God gives us all spirit so that we can have life, this is not the Holy Spirit. Here is a few little refreshers where Ray spoke on this.

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm ------------------------------

God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.
v
In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html ------

Dear John:
    Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2899.0.html -----

COMMENT:  The spirit HAS NO CONSCIOUSNESS, not even in life. When a doctor puts someone under to operate, the person is NOT DEAD, he still has his spirit, but he has NO CONSCIOUSNESS. We need a brain to have soul and consciousness. When someone shoots you through the brain, you LOSE YOUR SOUL.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1594.0.html -------

Every person (and animal) has a "spirit."  There is no life without spirit. At death OUR spirit return to our God Who gave it to us. Spirit does not die. But, spirit has no consciencousness of its own. It must be united with a body. That is why there is coming a Resurrection of the DEAD. Adam's body had the spirit of God breathed into it and then Adam became a LIVING SOUL.  God's Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2148.0 ----------------

Man is composed of two vital components: a body and a spirit. No body, including animals can live without spirit. When the spirit from God that He gives all humans unites with a physical body, the result is "living soul." When God created Adam of the elements of the ground and breathed in his nostrils the breath [or ruach--spirit], the man became a "living soul."  We only live--think, feel, taste, hear, smell, talk, create, love, etc., because of the result of body and spirit.  The soul does not exist in a vacuum or by itself without the body and spirit. At death, the spirit is taken back by God, and the body returns to the dust. There IS NO SOUL in death.  The sentient person with his personality, character, and consciousness will only revive when God reunited our spirit with a new body. This happens at resurrection, which is yet future.

    God be with you,
    Ray
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At birth we receive breath/spirit from God that give us life and consciousness, soul. This becomes the means by which we are developed and shaped into who we are, our personality and character. Certainly this spirit is from God, but it only gives us the means (through the 5 senses) to operate and live in this world, it does not impart understanding of the spiritual, this is the fleshly/carnal mind, enmity against God/Truth.

Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
v. 6  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
v. 7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Only for a few now, does God give an addition to our spirit of flesh/bondage, the Holy Spirit.. by this addition of Spirit He will develop His righteousness in these chosen few in their lifetime.

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Rom 8:10  And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself (the Holy Spirit of God) bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Does this mean God has more than 1 Spirit? I don't think so, God works through His Spirit without limit in diversity to do all that He does.

1Co 12:4  There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
v. 5  There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
v. 6  And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
1Co 12:11  But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Rom 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
v. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
v. 16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
v. 17  and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

It has been mentioned that there is the Scripture that speaks of "the 7 Spirits of God." 

Rev 5:6  And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

These 7 Spirits of God is speaking of the Lamb - Jesus Christ, who is our God over this creation. Again the number 7 is a symbolic number to represent the absolute completeness/fullness of Jesus Christ, it is the number of PERFECTION!
   
1Co 2:11  For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
v. 12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world...

I just put where Paul in Rom. 8:14 stated "you did not receive the spirit of bondage again," we already have the spirit that gave us physical life and breath at birth. Paul is restating the same thing here "we have received, not the spirit of the world" again....

v. 12 ...but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
v. 13  These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
v. 14  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So isn't this "natural man" speaking of man with just the spirit/breath of life? I think so.

v. 15  But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
v. 16  For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Hope this is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on August 14, 2013, 10:22:02 PM

On the headline for getting into this forum it says ''Discuss what you have Learned at bible-truths.com''

Since long time ago I am visiting this forum and learning little by little how to don't break that rule. Right now I am trying.

So here is something I learned, and that I am discussing;

''Adam’s body had the spirit of God breathed into it and then Adam became a LIVING SOUL.  God’s Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord. ETc. Sorry, but it would take days to answer your question in detail.’’

For some this might not mean that God have more than one spirit and for others it does. I don't mind if others take this quote different as I do. I have my reasons and others should have their reasons.

But if somebody takes it different (and notice that we are not talking about hell or free will which by now it's a very clear for us) it's NOT fair to call him heretic, or that he is wrong and bringing false teaching to the forum. After all, we are just discussing what we have learn on the site and what brings us together here must be the spirit of kindness and unity and the belief on the salvation of all.

Neither do I believe that it's okay before God to offend a sister in the forum and when that person tell you that she felt offended, rather than say sorry; respond with sarcasm and lack of emphaty. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Job 33:4  The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Who's breath it was?

A study on the concept of spirit will show that this term is used in the Scriptures in more than one way (actually four) . This is why it's so confusing sometimes to talk about spirit. As Kat well pointed out, God gives us all spirit so that we can have life, this is one way (and here spirit has no conscience on it's own). Another way is when it talks about spirit as an attitude (like someone having a kind spirit). Another way is when it talks about conscious spirits (like angels and demons)- Not so long ago I remember that Kat made a great post to distinguish between the spiritual realm and physical realm. And another way when it talks about the holy spirit of God Himself, as in this case:

"...Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD Almighty."  Zech. 4:6


Anyway. Some have their view on this subject which is different to others; And it's okay that everyone stands on their own and try to stand firm.

 Let God be right and men wrong, after all He has the last word on whatever subject.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: G. Driggs on August 15, 2013, 01:09:08 AM
Hi Moises,

It IS tough to understand what is meant by "One Spirit". Does God HAVE One Spirit? Or IS He One spirit? And One Spirit with Who?

I think Ray really nails it in these short quotes.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

That’s what I want to start teaching, the simplicity.  The simplicity that is in Christ Jesus.  It all comes down to this one parable in the first chapter of Genesis.  “Let Us be making man in Our image.”  One image.  All these images, all these sinners, all these stupid ideas and vanities out there.  You got to bring it all into one spiritual image.  Everything is ONE.  All heading for one goal, one destiny, one body, one God, one family.

Partly what Jesus Christ was doing when He was revealing the Father, was letting them know who He was.  Before Abraham, “I Am” that was Me.  What?  Yes that was Me.  Not only was that Me, but here, Me, the Christ, the Savior, the Messiah in the flesh, this is the Father.  Everything that I say is the Father.  Everything that I do is the Father. Then they started to understand it and believe it. 

That’s why Paul could say that there is one body, one spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God, one Father, of all, because he understood it, and they understood it too, at the end.  You can tell by their writing they were beginning to understand it.

One what? One God and it’s understood, We are one... one God. We two, are one. Whenever two are of the same mind and spirit, they are considered one.

Jesus Christ and His Father are One, they’re one Spirit. You have the Father and you have the Son, but they’re one.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html

Now what did Christ say regarding His disciples? He said I call you friends. But what did the Father say? The same thing, because they are One. Whatever Christ says, the Father says the same things, because they have the same Spirit, because they are One. One Spirit, they say the same. Whatever Christ says, thinks, or does, that’s what the Father is... same thing. They do the same thing, because they are One, Father and Son are One.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html

This is a part of my on going attempt to show you how everything is interrelated in the scriptures.  Everything comes down to one main objective - one main purpose - one thing, remember I’ve said that so often, it’s all ONE.  You study out any subject in the scripture and it all comes down to one thing…. it’s all ONE.

Jesus Christ was an individual and He did all these many many things and He has a Father and He has done all these wonderful things.  Yet He says, “I and My Father are ONE.” (John 10:30)  And I have said everything is ONE.

Eph 4:1  I therefore the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you to walk worthily of the vocation wherewith you were called,
v. 2  with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
v. 3  Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

You know what unity means - unity means it’s all together, that’s what unity is, all together in one.  One purpose - one cause - one whatever, it’s unified. 

These churches of the world are out to create a unity between them.  I mean they would even try to create a unity between the Moslems and the Christians.  Give me a break, what fellowship has light with darkness, or what fellowship has darkness with darkness, how about that.  The unity already exist, we don’t create a new unity.  “Keep the unity of the Spirit,” there already is that unity.  We are encouraged to keep it, not create it, it’s already there. 

Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
v. 5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
v. 6  one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in you all.
--------------------------------------------

It's all about the unity and working in unison my dear bro's  8)
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: se7en on August 16, 2013, 03:06:00 PM
Moises, I loved that last post that you put up. :)

John 6:63 NKJV It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:63 CLV The Spirit is that which is vivifying. The flesh is not benefiting anything. The declarations which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

John 6:63 ESV It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

God through Christ spoke everything into existence. His words are spirit and life. He spoke us all into existence. We all are a word from God and we all will not return to Him void. We all will accomplish exactly everything He spoke us to be. You are a spoken Word of the Almighty.

Beautiful.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Kat on August 17, 2013, 01:01:27 PM

I have one more comment on this topic. Maybe most already realize this, but the connection registered more profoundly in my mind as I thought on this, so I wanted to share it here.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD (Yahweh/Jehovah) God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (also verse that have "breath of life" Gen 1:39; 6:17; 7:15; 22)

Job 33:4  The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life. (also Job 12:10)

We all clearly understand that the LORD God in the OT is the Son who became Jesus Christ and there in Genesis and Job it shows that it is the LORD God's breath/spirit that gives life. So it is the same spirit of who was to become Jesus Christ in the OT that gives everything physical life and Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit that gives us spiritual LIFE as well. Same person of Jesus Christ same spirit, used for different purposes.

This is from the 2007 Nashville Conference and the second is from the Trinity article where Ray explains who the Holy Spirit is.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html -----------

Not that the Holy Spirit is nothing or of no consequence, it’s just not a person. Jesus Christ and God the Father ARE the Holy Spirit! Jesus Christ is that Spirit! 

John 16:7  … I will send him (the Comforter) to you. v. 15  … He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

What is He going to take of Christ? His Spirit. Where did Christ get that Spirit? From God the Father. But He is going to take of Christ, because it’s going to be the personality of Christ, see. 

Paul didn’t say, I’m crucified with God, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but the FATHER lives in me. No, it’s, “I have been crucified with CHRIST, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but CHRIST lives in me.” (Gal 2:20)  But see it’s the personality of Christ, that is the spirit that lives in us and that spirit comes from God. So we can call it God’s Holy Spirit, even though it’s channeled through Christ. Jehovah /Elohim, God the Father(Elohim), you know. 

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html ---------------------------------

It is rather THROUGH the holy spirit that the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son, and we are in Christ and Christ is in us and the Father is in us!

Next let’s consider who or what is the "comforter" mentioned only in John’s gospel account.

"And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you [it is not "from" the holy spirit, but "from" the Father] another Comforter [this word does not require a capital letter], that he [it] may abide with you for ever [Greek: for the aion--eon or age]. Even the Spirit of truth..." (John 14:16-17 KJV).

Remember that Jesus said "I am the truth" (John 14:6). How then can this "comforter" be coming from both His Father and Himself? Is this possible? Once we understand just what this "spirit of truth," "spirit of God," "holy spirit," "holy ghost," "comforter" really is, we will see that it certainly DOES come from both the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

It is evident when checking various translations that the translators did not have a clear idea as to just what they should call this "comforter." In the Greek, the word is [parakletos BESIDE-CALLER].

It can be "consoler" or "Entreater" in I John 2:1.

The Moffatt translation has "...to give you another Helper..."

The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has "...another Advocate..."

The Revised Standard Version has "...Counselor..."

The Monsignor Knox version has "...another to befriend you..."

The Phillips Translation has "...some one else to stand by you..."

And the Amplified New Testament has "...another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener and Standby)..."

It should be noted that not all translators capitalize this Greek word parakletos in their translations, nor do all translators use the pronoun "he" but rather "it."

From The Concordant Literal New Testament:

John 14:16-18, "And I shall be asking the Father, and He will be giving you another consoler, that it, indeed, may be with you for the eon--the spirit of truth, which the world can not get, for it is not beholding it, neither is knowing it. Yet you know it, for it is remaining with you and will be in you. I will not leave you bereaved; I am COMING TO YOU."

In this section of Scripture, Philip, Thomas, Peter, and Judas (and possibly all the Apostles) did not quite understand what Christ was teaching them. They especially didn’t understand how that Jesus was going away and that where He was going they could not come, but that it was necessary for Him to go away to His Father, or He could not send them the comforter or consoler.

Jesus was assuredly "the spirit of truth" of which He spoke. And as such Jesus was with the disciples. But now He is telling them that when He leaves them to be with the Father, He will come back to them, only this time He will not just be with them, but He will be IN them! The spirit of truth was with the apostles in the person of Jesus Christ, but He told them that after He left to be with the Father that this same spirit of truth would be in them. This is all done by "spirit," the spirit of God.

Notice verse 26 of John 14:

"Now the consoler, THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending in MY NAME..."

And see how this is done, verse 23:

"If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and WE shall be coming to him and making OUR abode with him.

This is done through the consoler, the comforter, the spirit of truth, THE HOLY SPIRIT of God! Jesus said He would not leave them "comfortless" (Ver. 18), so for sure Jesus must return to His followers to "comfort" them. This He did and still does by the "spirit of God" which God gave to His son Jesus and which the Father then turns around and gives FROM that very same spirit in Christ TO US! The following Scripture make this plain:

"All things that the Father hath are mine [all things include the holy spirit]: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine [that is, of the spirit that His Father gave to Him], and shall shew it UNTO YOU" (John 16:15).
-------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Joel on August 17, 2013, 09:23:12 PM
Jesus did something that's recorded in John 20 that is easily over looked.
20:21-Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
20:22-And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith  unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
20:23-Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Joel
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: hummer on August 18, 2013, 03:58:57 AM
We who are slower at understanding powerful truths such as Spirit need to seek counsel from those who may better understand a particular subject before posting. Read and Reread Ray's writings more carefully and prayerfully remembering his instruction or direct order if you will To Pay Attention To All The Words.

If one is offended by a post please PM the author before presenting the matter to others

Mat 18:15 Now, if ever your brother should be sinning, go and expose him between you and him alone. If ever he should be hearing you, you gain your brother."

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves. Yet if your brother should be sinning, rebuke him, and if he should ever indeed repent, forgive him."
Luk 17:4 And if he should ever be sinning against you seven times a day, and if he should ever be turning about seven times a day to you, saying 'I am repenting,' you shall be forgiving him."

Mat 18:16 Yet if ever he should not be hearing, take still one or two others along with you, that at the mouth of two witnesses, or of three, every declaration may be made to stand."

We have very capable moderators as well as others who can fulfill this command

Mat 18:17 Now, if ever he should be disobeying them, tell it to the ecclesia. Now, if ever he should be disobeying the ecclesia also....

Then the matter can and should be brought to the Forum.

Hummer



Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: indianabob on August 18, 2013, 09:05:11 AM
Good advice and good counsel Hummer and Kat.

Kat's clarification has been offered previously and is very helpful.

Indiana Bob
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: onelovedread on August 18, 2013, 09:50:21 AM
Did someone really sin here?
Is every interpretational disagreement on a thread in this forum a source for sin?
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: dodrill on August 18, 2013, 12:20:21 PM
No - I don't think so - we are flesh after all - and all of it is a mystery
A great wonderful mystery
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Dave in Tenn on August 18, 2013, 01:06:01 PM
Did someone really sin here?
Is every interpretational disagreement on a thread in this forum a source for sin?

I don't think that's what Hummer was driving at, though I could be wrong.  I think he was talking about if one THINKS (or has the perception) that an error has occurred that there are better ways to address it.  I agree.  But we are a web-forum doing the best we can, and if every new perceived 'sin' in a thread was held to the same scrutiny, we'd never get anywhere or be able to move on.


Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: Kat on August 18, 2013, 01:15:32 PM
Jesus did something that's recorded in John 20 that is easily over looked.
20:21-Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
20:22-And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith  unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
20:23-Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Hi Joel,
Those verses in John 20 can be confusing, was He giving them the Holy Spirit by breathing on them, before He ascended back to the Father? Well no, this was a symbol/pledge He was showing them, while He was still there physically to explain, of what was to come on the day of Pentecost. Jesus had already explained to them it would be only after He "go away" back to the Father before the Comforter could come.

John 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

In Acts 1 there is the ascension of Christ and right before this He is speaking to the disciples and you can see by what He is saying to them that they have not yet actually received the Holy Spirit.

Act 1:8  But you shall receive power when (because it had not yet happened) the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
v. 9  Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Ray explained this as well.

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ----------------------------------

On Pentecost, Jesus Christ came back to His disciples just as He said He would. He came back as the Comforter. Jesus said that they absolutely could NOT receive the Comforter until He went away. Why? Because Jesus Christ IS THE COMFORTER, but not in the flesh, but in THE SPIRIT!

It was on Pentecost that the first members of the Church of Christ received the Holy Spirit Comforter, just as He symbolized to them when He blew on them, showing that He Himself would come to them in spirit by the will of God. Now for the first time, His disciples were truly converted, baptized in Holy Spirit, possessing the mind of Christ, lead into all Truth (Jesus) by the Comforter—Jesus was NOW BUILDING HIS CHURCH!

"But the Comforter [Greek, parakletos, also called the Consoler, and in I John 2:1, Advocate in KJV, and Entreater in the CLNT] which IS the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).

The Advocate or Entreater in I John 2:1 IS the parakletos, The Comforter or Consoler of John 14:26 IS the parakletos,. and we are told that it is Jesus Christ Himself. Furthermore, the "Holy Spirit" that is said to come AS the Comforter is also Jesus Christ,

"Now the Lord IS that Spirit: and where the Spirit OF THE Lord [Jesus Christ] is, there is liberty" (II Cor. 3:17
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: hummer on August 18, 2013, 08:02:14 PM
    Did someone really sin here?
    Is every interpretational disagreement on a thread in this forum a source for sin?

    Dave you are correct sir and NO not every interpretational disagreement on a thread in   this a source for sin.

Hummer
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on October 03, 2013, 11:40:28 PM
For the love of everything Holy, can we move on to a NEW TOPIC before my head explodes again.




Just hold on a minute...   ; )
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: moshe on October 03, 2013, 11:58:23 PM


Kat, thanks so much for bringing this quote, it is exactly what I was looking for when I started this tread:




Not that the Holy Spirit is nothing or of no consequence, it’s just not a person. Jesus Christ and God the Father ARE the Holy Spirit! Jesus Christ is that Spirit! 

John 16:7  … I will send him (the Comforter) to you. v. 15  … He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

What is He going to take of Christ? His Spirit. Where did Christ get that Spirit? From God the Father. But He is going to take of Christ, because it’s going to be the personality of Christ, see. 

Paul didn’t say, I’m crucified with God, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but the FATHER lives in me. No, it’s, “I have been crucified with CHRIST, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but CHRIST lives in me.” (Gal 2:20)  But see it’s the personality of Christ, that is the spirit that lives in us and that spirit comes from God. So we can call it God’s Holy Spirit, even though it’s channeled through Christ. Jehovah /Elohim, God the Father(Elohim), you know.

L.Ray Smith




So here we have such a great example to be able to understand the holy spirit of God in us!

If we can better understand the holy spirit as the personality of Jesus Christ,  first we have to know about him, therefore we need to know his biography, what is He all about, His STORY; the story of the Salvation of ALL. The less we are like we used to be and the more we are like Him, the more of His spirit we have. However, there is something in us that make us special on His eyes, but that is nothing that has to do with our carnality. Our personal world perception is different from anybody else on the history of the world, so even if we lose our selves in the process, Jesus keeps that something, and make it for the better (for more about this, Ray’s paper ‘why does God love us’ is great).

If we have ever met a woman, and we know of a man constantly acting like a woman, it could be said that he have the spirit of a woman. In the same way, if somebody knows enough of Jesus and he sees someone else acting like Him; it could be said that that someone else have the holy spirit of God. Of course many times, the outward acts and appearances can trick us, however, God ultimately knows. Paul said that we should imitate him, because he was imitating Jesus very well. It’s like if Jesus is our idol and we want to be like him, talk like him, behave like him and be with him!
I have seen pastors possessed by demons on different measures; their wrong teachings and lack of sight to see the obvious is life prove that they are being influenced by a bad spirit. I have also seen fine men’s possessed by the spirit of God; the fruits of the spirit, their sober mind to understand Scripture and spiritual strength are life prove for me that they are being influenced by the personality of Jesus/holy spirit.

I know that I am using strange terminologies to try to convey what I am trying to say. I hope no one get’s offended. When talking about spirits it’s hard to convey meaning, since we are talking about something invisible and powerful that exist in a different realm than the physical realm.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: loretta on October 04, 2013, 02:22:39 AM
God's Holy Spirit has the personality of Christ.  That's how Christ reveals the Father to us.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

We have the same spirit in us, the Spirit of Christ. God duplicating himself, making men into sons of God, making us into His image.

Profound.:)  Thanks for sharing this Moises.

Could we have the link to Ray’s paper ‘why does God love us’. Tks.
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: cjwood on October 04, 2013, 04:53:12 AM
loretta, the article moises referenced"why does God love you?" is towards the top of the bible-truths.com homepage. 

claudia
Title: Re: SPIRIT AS THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS OF GOD HIMSELF
Post by: loretta on October 04, 2013, 09:52:03 AM
loretta, the article moises referenced"why does God love you?" is towards the top of the bible-truths.com homepage. 

claudia

Right under my nose! :)  It didn't show up in a search. tks Claudia.