=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Rick on April 23, 2016, 02:13:59 PM

Title: A reason to fear.
Post by: Rick on April 23, 2016, 02:13:59 PM
Below is an excerpt from the myth of free will part D by Ray. I find in this truth a great reason to fear God, this fear is a healthy fear because I know everything is from God even down to the locking of a thread.

Today I have a deeper understanding of the sovereignty of God in my appointed time. We are totally dependent on God period.

We control absolutely nothing in our lives we just experience life, experience of good and evil.

                                     FROM Ray

The will of the entire human race combined, cannot bend one blade of grass unless it was foreknown, foreordained, and appointed by God to happen. Read Ecclesiastes 3 and tell me otherwise.

Clearly God tells us that there is an appointed time for everything that happens between birth and death. But nowhere does human free will and free choice enter into any of these God-ordained and God-caused and God-performed events in the lives of all who are born and die among the human race. Man’s "will" is indeed able to always choose what it prefers, but what it prefers will always be in concert with what God has preordained.

All the choices of all humanity are preordained by God to happen, and as such, not one is free to not happen. Therefore, no one has a will that can operate independent from or in opposition to, God’s preordained purpose

What a difference from what Christendom teaches yet it's Gods will it does.

I feel a humbling affect with such knowledge and realize everything is truly dependent on God.

God bless.
Title: Re: A reason to fear.
Post by: willemv on April 23, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
Hi Rick
I do agree with your first two statements ,but not with the last that we just experience life . In Ray's dissertation on "free will "he defines it as having the power to make a choice or decision without a CAUSE. Only God has that power, however we possess the ability to make choices when different options are open to us and our choices can be good or bad.And even the fact that God has foreknowledge of our choices does not take away our accountability for making the choices we do. This is a bit of a mystery for us to understand,but that is the way I believe this issue.
God bless, Wim
Title: Re: A reason to fear.
Post by: Rick on April 23, 2016, 04:57:48 PM
In experience of life we learn but having said that its my take whatever choice we make could of not been otherwise.

Everything is of God, that's how I see it, any choices I make cannot go contrary to what God intended for me to make.

Can I make a choice God did not want me to make? I do agree though, it is a mystery from where I'm standing.

God bless.
Title: Re: A reason to fear.
Post by: Kat on April 23, 2016, 07:05:58 PM

It is good to review this, with the very difficulty there is to understand all the different aspects of this subject... but I do believe we gain a bit more every time we do study it. So here is more from the article 'The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed' - Part C, hopefully this should take a bit of the mystery out of it. ------

Things don’t just happen on this earth or in the universe; rather God makes them happen, He causes them to happen, He brings them about.

“…according to the purpose of Him [God] Who works [Greek aiorist tense: past, present, and future] all things after the counsel of His Own will” (Eph. 1:11).

Just how does God deceive mankind into thinking that their thoughts and choices are “free and uncaused?” The answer is quite simple: man does not see, feel or perceive in any way, either internally or externally, any force or power causing him to think or do anything other than what he consciously wills. Surely that is enough proof for any carnal-minded person that his will and choices are free from any causality whatsoever. If he can’t see, feel, or perceive of anything making or causing him to choose a particular way, then surely, there is nothing there, and his “will is free.”
He [God] has made everything fitting [not ‘beautiful’] in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does.”  (Ecc. 3:11).

So God has made everything that there is (even though much of it is evil, ugly, and NOT ‘beautiful,’) fitting, proper, appropriate, and suited for its own season, “but” or “however”—here comes a counter proposal, if you will. So God makes EVERYTHING proper and appropriate for His plan, however…. BUT, “…He has put OBSCURITY in their hearts…” so that, or in order that, they CANNOT know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call “life.” What a spiritual revelation!

We have hundreds of Scriptures that verify the fact that God does do according to His plan and intention, always, and everywhere, but there are few verses as this verse which tells us specifically how He had HID [concealed, obscured] this marvelous operation from the eyes of carnal humanity as this verse does.

But Jesus Christ can set us free from the carnal mind, and give us spiritual discernment, and increase our knowledge, and make us wise so that we can understand. Here then is the revelation of a major mystery:

God uses mankind with his “obscured heart” to do all of His intentions without mankind every consciously knowing that God is working His purpose through them—“so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to the end.” (Ecc 3:11)
Did Joseph understand in his “obscured” heart that it was GOD sending him to Egypt to do His will? No. Did the King of Assyria understand in his “obscured” heart that it was God sending him to Jerusalem to do His will? No. Does Christendom understand in their “obscured” hearts that it is God sending them to deceive the world and to blaspheme His name through their evil doctrines? No.

The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers [rillets—small brooks] of water: He turns [directs] it whithersoever he will [desires][/u]” (Prov. 21:1).

It is not in a king to direct his ways, neither is it in ALL MANKIND to direct his steps:

O Lord, I know that the way of man [Heb: ‘Adam, a human, mankind] is NOT in himself [or in his presumed free will] it is not IN man [‘not in MANKIND’] that walks to direct his steps”  (Jer. 10:23).

If mankind cannot direct his own steps: Who then does direct his “steps?”

Man’s goings [Heb: ‘STEPS’] are OF THE LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?” (Prov. 20:24).

All is OF God.
Thou [you reading this paper right now…] will say then unto me, ‘WHY DOES He [God] yet find fault' [with the King of Assyria or ANYONE who merely does what God Himself has supernaturally INTENDED for them to do?] For [or ‘because’] who has [EVER] resisted His [GOD’S] WILL [Gk: boulema ‘resolve, intention, or PURPOSE.” This word is never translated “will” and is used but one other time in Acts, translated: ‘purpose.’]”

God tells us that the Assyrian did only what He Himself intended for him to do. Paul, likewise, assures us that no one ever has or can go against God’s “intention or purpose.”  How then is God justified in punishing the King of Assyria or anyone else for doing what God “intended” for them to do? The answer lies in the HEART of mankind. God said that He would punish “the fruit of his ARROGANT HEART

The Bible doesn’t say that man doesn’t have a HEART. It doesn’t say that he doesn’t have a MIND. It doesn’t say that he can’t THINK. It doesn’t say he can’t make CHOICES. It doesn’t say he doesn’t have a WILL. It doesn’t say he can’t carry out his will through his thoughts, choices, planning, action, and deeds. What it does say is that: MAN IS NOT A GOD WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS INDEPENDENTLY AND FREELY FROM THE INTENTIONS AND PURPOSE OF HIS CREATOR!!   THAT’S what the Bible really says!

“God is the Potter; we are the clay.”
Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me thus?” (Rom. 9:20). 

And the vessel [humanity] that He made of clay [Adam] was marred [‘ruined’—and its heart was made ‘subject to vanity {futility, failure}… and in ‘bondage of corruption’, Rom. 8:20-21], in the hand of the Potter: so He made it again ANOTHER vessel, as seemed good to the Potter to make it” (Jer. 18:4).

Every vessel of humanity is first made “marred in the hand of the Potter.” ... “the carnal mind is enmity against God,” ... “for out of the heart proceed evil thoughts.” Every vessel must be refashioned--regenerated, converted, judged, purged, and born again of the Spirit.

This regeneration of the human heart and mind occurs during two appointed times:

And so, God has “obscured” his heart from seeing and understanding this Spiritual Truth. It takes a supernatural revelation from God to “spiritually discern” this deepest of human mysteries. And it is for the very fact that it is from the very HEART of man that he presumes to take to himself a presumed power GREATER THAN GOD HIMSELF, that He will “PUNISH HIS [MAN’S] ARROGANT AND HAUGHTY HEART.

We are “accountable” for what comes out of our arrogant heart, but God is “responsible” for giving us such an heart in the first place.
God's plan is operating on a pre-arranged schedule. It cannot be changed or altered one iota, ever!

God created man in a “marred” condition, but God’s plan has no mars whatsoever. It was not wrong or a sin for God to create mankind in a “marred” condition.  It was a perfect plan. It is now and always will be a perfect plan.

God has always worked all things after the counsel of His Own will. His plan needs no midstream adjustments, corrections, or refinements. It cannot be improved upon. It cannot be added to or detracted from. IT IS PERFECT.  GOD IS PERFECT. ALL WILL TURN OUT PERFECT. WE ALL WILL BE PERFECT BECAUSE GOD WILL BE “ALL IN ALL”! I believe it. I hope you do too.

mercy, peace and love
Title: Re: A reason to fear.
Post by: Rick on April 23, 2016, 11:45:41 PM
I found this on line, but we already know this.

God bless.
Title: Re: A reason to fear.
Post by: indianabob on April 24, 2016, 12:11:24 AM
Thanks much Kat,
I should read this over at least once a week.
It contains so much that is basic to our true understanding.

Regards, Indiana Bob