=> Email to Ray => Topic started by: Craig on October 02, 2006, 11:17:33 PM

Title: Proof Texting
Post by: Craig on October 02, 2006, 11:17:33 PM
Hi Ray,

Many thanks for your website, it is truly an eye-opener and a treasure trove of truth. I am in agreement with most of the content on your website, but I have one nagging issue. As a former seventh day Adventist I am consciously aware of teaching scripture using the proof-text method, which is most common to SDA’s, and without proof-texting it can be difficult to maintain many SDA doctrines.

I have noticed on many of your essays a similarity to proof texting, of taking scripture from here and there and putting it together. I just wonder if you are aware of this and what your thoughts are around proof-texting?

Kind Regards,


Dear Michael:

No offense, but just once I would love it if people who make claims that I do this or that or don't do this or that in my writings would include ONE CONCRETE EXAMPLE to prove their point. First show me one example of a Doctrine that the SDA's support with "text proofing."  Then, show one example where I do the same or similar as you suppose. Fair enough? Good.  I will then show you the error of your thinking.

God be with you,


Title: Re: Proof Texting
Post by: Craig on October 02, 2006, 11:22:41 PM
Hi Ray,
Rather than re-invent the wheel, I suggest you take a look at the following websites that explain proof texting and the associated problems. Firstly, read Dr Raymond Cottrell's paper on the SDA use of proof texting to support Danial 8 and 9 interpretations of the sanctuary doctrine - it is a lengthy paper, but worth reading.
Dr Raymond Cottrell - Sanctuary Doctrine (Asset or Liability?):
Problems with Proof Texting:
An example of proof texting gone wrong:
And he [Judas]…went and hanged himself” (Matthew 27:5). “Then said Jesus…‘Go, and do thou likewise’ ” (Luke 10:37b).
As an example your essay about Lazarus and the Rich man contains many texts all of which a short and one has to assume that you are quoting with reference to the correct context of the text. I am not suggesting this is the case, but it could be interpreted as such.
God Bless,
Michael Inglis.
Dear Michael:
No one has ever tacked Luke 10:37b onto Matt. 27:5 to insinuate that Jesus wants us to all kill ourselves as Judas did. That is over the top absurdity.  So give me a REAL example of a SDA doctrine based on "prooftexting."  I didn't ask you to reinvent the wheel.  People do this to me all day long. The think that I have thousands and thousands of extra hours on my hands with nothing to do but read hundred of books, web sites, etc., submitted by my readers. Well I don't, and I won't.  You brought it up; you answer it. Then give me an example in my Lazarus paper where I used "proof texting" OUT OF CONTEXT to try and prove a point. Show me ONE!
I am fully aware of the fact that whenever I would debate a topic with a Christian theologian, that any and EVERY verse in ALL of my papers would be considered "out of context." But on the other hand, EVERY Scripture that they would quote would be in context. And why is that?  Because they took a course on hermeneutics and I didn't.  They know how to quote IN context and I don't.  Oh really?  And is that how all of the apostles quoted from the Old Testament--IN CONTEXT?  Show me ONE example.
If I were to say "God is love," and then quote I John 4:8 "He that loves not knows not God, for GOD IS LOVE," I am sure that some theologian somewhere would accuse me of taking that quote "out of context."  He would assure me that "God is love" ONLY in the context of I John 4:7 and 8.  Guess what?  I really really really don't care what they think of my teachings. My readers aren't nearly as stupid as Christians think they are.  There are more and more who are coming to see the Truths of God through this ministry. I donot apologize for the way that I teach.
I don't need to quote a Scripture out of context to show millions of people that the bedrock foundation of Christian doctrine is straight out of the damnable religion of the pagan Egyptians, and not out of the Word of God.
God be with you,