=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on December 19, 2006, 05:55:47 PM

Title: Forum
Post by: hillsbororiver on December 19, 2006, 05:55:47 PM
 From an e-mail to Ray on Dec. 19, 2006

        You write in your "email to Ray" section of the forum, "Our Forum is not the place to try out new ideas and teachings on Biblical themes. You can send them to me, but then again I cannot answer all of these teachings and questions either."
        It seems that you should detach the forum from your website, then. 
        It seems there are MANY in the forum that feel they have to have your stamp of approval on things they share.  That's why I left the forum.  Also, there were too many people that seemed they looked down on the un-called yet and assumed they were called and more wise and going to be chosen.  And yes, I'm well aware that you encourage people to believe God & trust the Word over you - but there are many that seem to miss that.
        Dear Nicholas:
        Sounds to me that you are judging them just as you are accusing them of judging you? What do think?
        I have never given anyone permission to say anything on our Forum. I have instructed our Moderators a time or two, however, to NOT allow certain things on our Forum.  It's kinda like a shepherd protecting the sheep against the wolves and foxes.  There are spiritual wolves and foxes, you know. Don't you?
        No, I don't want the Forum "detached" from our site. We don't work at causing devision and separation, but rather unity in our ministry.
        Why get caught up in all this childish, "he said, she said, they said......?"  Most people don't have a problem with our Forum. Some do. Some want to be teachers of new truth, when they don't understand the OLD truths.  We don't allow that. I'm sorry, but we don't allow anyone who so desires, to teach heresy or to teach anything on our Forum. You are allowed to discuss things, but don't start writing five and ten pages of exegesis commentary on the book of Revelation, cause we will cut you off. Baptists don't invite Jehovah's Witness ministers to teach at their Sunday services even though the marquee may read: "All Welcome," and we don't allow anyone to teach on our Forum, or try to get people to go to other sites to read someone elses heresy.
        I am sorry if you don't approve, but that's the way it is.
        Ya know, I don't believe that I have ever heard of anyone leaving our Forum because they felt too inferior to stay on. But I have heard of dozens and dozens who have left because they felt too superior to the others, to stay on the Forum. Swallow your pride, and join in the fellowship, and don't get all bent out of shape.
        God be with you,

I am not sure if anyone wants to discuss this and share their perceptions but I thought it might not be a bad idea to air this out a bit. Over the past year or so I have had many PM & e-mail discussions with folks who feel like this writer, there are some who just assumed certain things were implied that were only miscommunications, these were easy to bridge, sometimes it has appeared to have been resolved, for a time at least and then the anxiety they feel returns and other times I feel as if I am speaking Chinese to an Indian who was educated in England by a Canadian who only knew how to speak French.

While we are admonished to be of a like mind does this mean that we are to agree wholeheartedly on every topic at every point in time? Or does it mean that we as the Body of Christ, as Brethren in His Kingdom that we should first and foremost display the fruits of the spirit in our interactions with all we come into contact with?

Most if not all of us have Babylonian luggage we have carried for quite a while, some doctrines (baggage) are easily tossed aside while others have sentimental value that are not easily disposed of, is this one of the reasons we are admonished to have patience? To wait for confirmation from His Spirit to things we may not understand as completely as we thought?

I know that in the time I have been involved here there have been some things that took longer to sink in than others. I have also been amazed at how some folks will come in all ablaze in a new found fellowship only to trash it the first time someone does not embrace 100% a thought or premise they have postulated, where in this world of imperfection do we ever find such agreement at all times?

We all are on a One on one walk with the Lord, thankfully we can share our experiences and insights with each other, if I were on a journey in a country I was not totally familiar with would I be justified in being angry or frustrated with a fellow traveler who did not see the bluejay singing in the elm tree in a certain park at 6 AM Saturday morning as the wispy clouds were shaped like an anvil enhancing the sunrise with a spectrum of colors?

All comments are very welcome.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: sansmile on December 19, 2006, 06:27:09 PM
Hi Joe,

Well, I for one agree with the forum rules, sometimes I admit, we may overstep the mark a bit, but that's why there are moderators.  :)
We all have come to this forum through reading Ray's articles and i have always said that Ray, like all of us, is only a man, but a man i believe with more "spirtual sight" than me. When i first started to read Ray's articles, they were all confirmation to what the HS had already engraved in mine and my husbands heart. I am sure many have started to read and shouts of YES! YES!  resounded round their lounge. It was to me a feeling of "i am not alone in what i feel".

Allowing anyone to post other doctrines or teachings, i believe, will lead to dissention, i have seen this happen in another forum in the past. I agree that the old doctrines and heresies have been etched in to our minds, when reading the Word we have to consciously recognise this and pray for he HS to reveal the the truth in our hearts. It is all part of overcoming the "old man". Paul went thorugh the same turmoil, there was even desention between Paul and the the other apostles for a while,  because of their clinging on to the old ways.  Let us all encourage each other and study together, but still remembering it is bible-truths forum we are in, not a general chat room.

We, i believe are all here, because we have been "called out of her". The last thing we want is to wander back in. The HS reveals to us through grace and it is through grace that we have faith, and through that faith let us trust Him to guide us.

and i do truly mean it when i say

I love you all as the body of Christ

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: sansmile on December 19, 2006, 06:32:04 PM

Forgot to enter the scripture.......doh!  silly me

(Rom 12:2)  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(Rom 12:3)  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

(Rom 12:4)  For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

(Rom 12:5)  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

(Rom 12:16)  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

(Rom 12:17)  Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

(Rom 12:18)  If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: hillsbororiver on December 19, 2006, 06:33:59 PM


That was a beautiful post.

His Peace and Wisdom to you Sister,


P. S. Make that 2 beautiful posts................
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: eggi on December 19, 2006, 06:35:21 PM
I for one am glad this question came up. I'm a relatively new member, but I have already witnessed many threads that weren't really discussions, they were arguments. These threads ended with "You hurt me, I'm leaving this forum"-kind-of-posts. I never understood what caused these reactions, I haven't seen anyone deliberately trying to hurt someone else on this forum. Perhaps the hurt was due to the fact that they understood that they were wrong about something?

I guess the best way to approach this problem is to "weigh the words" before we post. There are many persons with different backgrounds, nationalities and languages who are members here, and this can sometimes be a real challenge. Perhaps using the emoticons/smileys can be a help, since these are universal carriers of meaning?  ;)

These verses speak about how powerful words are, and how we should learn to control our tongues:

Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (Jam 3:5-18 KJV)

There is much to learn from these verses.

God help us,
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: Pax Vobiscum on December 19, 2006, 08:00:26 PM
I not only enjoy a hearty debate, I believe that honest inquisition is a distillation process.  Moreover, I think to only allow Ray's point-of-view is a disservice to all -- and a very dangerous practice, if history is any teacher.  Were not the great thinkers of history open to challenge and discourse?  Were not the followers many of history's greatest villains limited in the amount of "disagreeable attitude" they may posess?

On the other hand, I was a member of this community when people would chop-and-copy huge amounts of writings from other websites and present them as their own.   It makes the moderators jobs much more difficult; however, the discussions can get lively.

Personally, I am intrigued by some of Ray's teaching and find some of it silly -- but have always maintained my respectful distance because this is his world.  I came back (after having been tossed off) to see what was going on and found the discussions rather lacking.  Loosening up the censorship can lead to more fulfilled lives.

My God can take all the scrutiny Man can dish out.  Can yours?


Title: Re: Forum
Post by: YellowStone on December 19, 2006, 08:01:32 PM

First off, thanks for a wonderful post about how others may perceive our actions.

Sandie, once again you have found a perfect piece of Scripture that encapsulates all the requirements of being of like mind.

Lastly, but certainly not least; Eirik, your post was so fitting that it almost brought tears to my eyes.

These words particularly hit a chord:

Jam 3:9  Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Jam 3:10  Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Jam 3:11  Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet [water] and bitter?

We have all the instruction we could ever need in this thread dear brothers and sisters. If any word of ours is bitter to another, then dare we stand and say: "I was blessing him/her, but they took it wrong!"

I think not. :) I am a Project Manager by trade and learned very early that the communicator is responsible for every communication. If someone does not get it or otherwise, fails to is NOT their fault.

I'm guessing that I have posted some non to sweet posts; so please accept my apology.

If we all keep God with us always, and speak with him (Love for God is Love) then others will see for themselves that God is indeed with this forum. Not because we necessarily have unity of ideals but unity in spirit and love for our Holy Father and his Son, Jesus Christ.

Sorry for rambling.....

May God continue to Bless you all,
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: DWIGHT on December 19, 2006, 09:38:59 PM
     Although I am new to this forum, I have never felt the way he does.  In fact just the opposite.  I know that I speak for most of us when I say that all of us want to be one of the chosen.  We did'nt come here because we were chosen, we came here because we were hungry and thirsty for Him, because we wanted to know the truth, because we left Babylon and longed for the fellowship of like minded brothers and sisters.  We are here because God led us here, not to teach or preach or look down on others and boast that we have seen the light and they have'nt.  And if any of has thought this, God forgive us.

     I have read posts here for several months now, and have only felt genuine care between the brothers and sisters.  And frankly, that's what drew me here.....I never read where anybody was condeming or looking down on another brother or sister.  If we wanted that we could have stayed in Christianity.  You know Ray's responce to this brother was tough but it was the truth and the truth hurts.  That's why we want the truth...we want to be judged now, not later!

     We've all had enough  damnable doctrines and lies creep into our lives to last us a lifetime, so I thank God for these three brothers that moderate this forum.  We need their protection from the ever present wolves that would have us for breakfast, lunch and dinner.  I've been led astray before and its easy to get caught up in every wind of doctrine that comes along.

     There are over six billion people on this planet and I wish everyone of them could be on this forum and see what we see and hear what we hear and be blessed as we are blessed and that there would be no division, but that apparently is not what God wants yet.  This is a family and we are all different.  I have four children and thirteen grandchildren and not one of them is the same, but we are all still one family.

     Brother, if your reading this and if we have offended you in anyway please forgive us.  We all want to be in God's family and in His love.

     In His grace and mercy,

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: kennymac on December 19, 2006, 11:38:23 PM

For me personally I find that I learn much from seeking truth from a variety of sources. Very often I will come across material that has a strong ring of truth. I have found that many of the members at this forum are very serious about their walk and I admire that.  When I do come across material that appears to have truth, it would be very helpful for me to hear the views of others, as I seek to learn and understand God's word. I often find myself alone, and unable to discuss scripture that I am unsure of. But the New covenant assures us that God will teach us all things.

My eyes have been opened to many truths here, so I will praise God.

God bless,


Title: Re: Forum
Post by: gmik on December 20, 2006, 01:04:11 AM
Good Thoughts.  I like the idea though that this is a forum for Bible-truths and not a general chat room.  I love it when Joe and Kat (and others) actually post sections of LOF that are relevant to the topic.  Ray is not perfect, he never claimed he was, but right now he is the only one whose teaching touches my heart and rings true.

Also, I visit this forum daily as much for fellowship as for learning.  I like praying for the needs of those here, I like the silly jokes & humor & trivia.  I like sharing in your lives.

Personally, I have no clue who left, or who this Nicholas is, or if anyone else is upset.  But this has been a life-raft for me.

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: skydreamers on December 20, 2006, 01:47:43 AM
Hi all, the material that Ray has written is what compelled most if not all of us to visit this forum, and then to eventually join.  Most of us have been reading the forum before we even join and so already know more or less what we can expect.

 I was drawn to the love and respect that truly is shown to everyone, and if there is disagreement so what.  It only shows that each of us is at a different level of spiritual understanding and so we couldn't possibly agree on everything. 

But there has to be some sort of guidelines and boundaries otherwise there would be chaos.  I have seen that there are many besides Ray who are here on this forum  who have profound spiritual insight.  Obviously Ray does not have the monopoly on the whole truth and is not perfect as has been mentioned, but it is through his ministry that this forum even exists and whatever guidelines he puts forth I am willing to respect them. 

Personally I feel blessed to be here and be able to participate in some small way.  There is no where else (at least no physical church) where you will find a group of people who even remotely believe similar things and so this is the only place we can be it seems to me. 

I do agree with Kennymac however that there are nuggets of truth that can be found in other sources and it would be helpful if we could share what we have found, even if just for the sake of other's opinions, whether positive or negative. 

Is it possible to have a section of the forum especially for that?  Then it can be left to the individual if they want to visit that section of the forum or not.  However, it might be confusing because where do you draw the line?  You wouldn't want people going off on a tangent and posting loads of outside information.  So who knows?  I think the forum is great the way it is now, but it also would be nice to share tidbits of other teachings and hold them up to scrutiny to see if there is any truth there.  Especially with so many people here who I have come to admire for their spiritual insight. 

I might sound as if I don't really know where I stand, but these are my thoughts.  Hope that wasn't too confusing! :D
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on December 20, 2006, 03:08:26 AM
To all,
  I would agree with Dwight's post.  I have felt nothing but love in here, and then again it may becuase I am new and have not made it through all the posts.

  Sometimes the truth hurts and is strong, but I would rather have it this way than candy-coated.  That's what was so refreshing when I began to read Ray.  He was not afraid to tell the truth as it was and not to candy-coat it. 

  Good thread by the way.


  Anne C. McGuire

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: stego on December 20, 2006, 04:01:26 AM
Hey all,
   As long as any discussion had in this forum refrains from personal attacks, I'm happy.  There's nothing wrong with having differing viewpoints, even extremely differing viewpoints, so long as we all post out of a desire to get at the truth, and with respect for our fellow posters, no matter the views they may hold.

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: hillsbororiver on December 20, 2006, 08:45:39 AM
Too many great comments to single any out, the bottom line is if we can treat each other in a charitable fashion and with mutual respect our fellowship with induce spiritual growth and knowledge.

We can ask questions about things that may have been read or heard elsewhere but remember the primary purpose of the Forum is, was and will be the articles on Bible Truths, there is such a wealth of information and insight there. If anyone has a an issue with a point or a paper Ray has written he has always welcomed scrutiny as long as scriptural witnesses are provided. Write him directly with any questions or comments, if you get no response send a PM to a moderator who can expedite the request at times.

If you believe you have some profound insight that you believe proves an article or a portion of an article is in error please do not post it before running it past (privately) with a trusted member, a moderator or Ray. The reason this approach is suggested is that I have seen people paint themselves in a corner with bold proclaimations only to see that their argument or challenge did not hold any water, then it became an idol of the heart and pride would not let them admit a mistake so they left the Forum, all for what purpose? Couldn't this have been handled in a temperate, patient manner? If knowledge is what is truly being sought rather than a GOTCHA! moment, then we should be able to reason together peacefully, without ego getting in the way.

There is a problem with posting huge sermons from other sources (especially uncredited) because the moderators have to spend an inordinate amount of time reading, studying and verifying scripture. It is a monumental task, there have been times when we can only delete such posts because we just don't have the time to proof read pages and pages of material, nor can we just let it go giving the impression that the content is "Bible Truths certified."

Again, thank you all for the great responses.

His Love and Peace to you,

Title: Re: Forum
Post by: deejcop on December 20, 2006, 10:21:33 AM
Hi all,

I can't say enough what a blessing this forum has been to me. Not only have I been learning many many truths that I probably never would have learned had I stayed in my old "church," but I've received wonderful fellowship and prayer support from so many people here. It sometimes bewilders me when people send emails to Ray, or even post on this forum, that are negative, or even say that his comments are silly, without any kind of scripture to back it up, at least scripture that's translated properly. With my insatiable hunger for knowledge, I've also searched many other similar sites online, but found that RARELY are there sites out there that believes ALL of what Ray teaches...e.g., some may not believe in eternal torment, but may believe in another orthdox tradition, like the rapture...etc.

I'm at a point in my life where I don't feel I'm ready to correctly defend what I believe to others(Without getting tongue-tied), let alone teach, and I have to admit that It can be a definite chore trying to decipher what the Word REALLY says, and who's right and who's not. It certainly isn't helping when I see to different arguments about Christ being sin, or being a sin-offering from two people whom I think have proverbial locks on the Word. Lately, I've felt that maybe I have to take a break from learning and reading, since it's been causing more frustration.

All that said, I can't say anything bad about the forum. Just the other day I thought about how nice it would be if I could physically meet with some people of like mind here in my city, and we can talk about some of the things that I have questions about. I truly miss that kind of fellowship, as there is nobody here that I know that would not try to throw "anointed oil" on my head and pray demons out of me if I were to tell them that hell is a false doctrine in the church. Thankfully there are people here that at least fill some of that longing.
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: dogcombat on December 20, 2006, 10:48:52 AM
I think what we're supposed to be is a reflection of Christ maturity that He has grown in us.  One of the reasons the "I disagree" forum was eliminated was because that one deteriorated into name calling that we are to be above (the maturity in Christ).  Meaning that our disagreements won't be taken too seriously, and we can all grow together as brothers & sisters.

May we all know our FIRST LOVE
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: iris on December 20, 2006, 10:51:25 AM
This has been a really good thread!

I have learned so much from this forum.

There has been many a day I have felt down

and someones joke or humor has uplifted me

and made me feel better.


Title: Re: Forum
Post by: graceman on December 20, 2006, 01:13:14 PM
I'm real new here...I like Ray's teaching alot.  That's WHY I'm here!

My own opinion is that being 'religiously correct' is a REAL general.  If the truth 'cuts' be it!  I think that's one of its purposes.  The institutional church taught us appearance management...always be the LOVING BROTHER, even if that means compromising the truth! :-X  God's life and love in us is much more STURDY than that.  Lets listen for the TRUTH expressed from the spirit within EACH of us...we need each

God bless all who come here...and thank you, moderators for your work of service here. :)
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on December 20, 2006, 01:35:45 PM

  I seriously failed appearance management 101, that they tried to throw me into remedial class.  If I failed that one I would be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.  Well let's just say that I left before they could take the pleasure of excommunicating me.  The reason why I failed, is becuase I wanted truth.  My friends can vouch for this, that I was starving for something deeper.  I was told, that oh no, we do not question anyone, we must believe.  This derailed my faith in almost everything.  Thank God, my 2 friends came and rescued me and showed me the way out of Babylon so to speak.

  My heart goes to those still in her trying to get their A's in appearance management. 


  Anne C. McGuire
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: graceman on December 20, 2006, 03:57:31 PM
Hi Anne :)

I got some good marks in 'Appearance Management' for a while...I seemed to run out of motivation though!
Like yourself, God brought me to a point where only TRUTH (the Person), would suffice.  God gave me revelation of His unconditional love...HOW He truly other words.  The experience this unconditional love my  'conditions' would be DESTROYED!  OH-NO!!! :o  The end of 'Appearance Management'...this is UGLY to our flesh and not widely accepted in the religious structure. 
How wondrous though...the unveiling of my TRUE SELF! :)
Title: Re: Forum
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on December 20, 2006, 04:06:23 PM

  "How wondrous though...the unveiling of my TRUE SELF!"

  It always is, it always is.


  Anne C. McGuire