=> General Discussions => Topic started by: pylady on April 20, 2007, 01:09:27 AM

Title: John 1
Post by: pylady on April 20, 2007, 01:09:27 AM
Hi everybody!

Been without a computer for some time and have trying to do what Ray always tells us to do  "Look at the words!"  been looking up the meaning of some of the greek words in John 1 and have been blown away with the depth of meaning in the Greek.  We miss so much in the english.  Just wanted to share some with you.

John1:3  " All things came into being by Him (the Word), and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
  All things, Gr pas  every, all, it can mean the individual with the totality and the totality of the individual.. It means not only all things in their totality but also each thing within that totality came into existence through Him.

John 1:4  "In Him was life and the life was the light of men."
  LifeGr zoe  life referring to the principle of life in the spirit.  distinguished from bios, physical life.
  Light Gr phos  light of the sun or day.  Contrasted with pleggos, light of the moon or night luminaries.  Phos is never kindled, therefore never quenched (never goes out).

John 1:5  "And the light shinesin the darkness and the darkness does not overpower it."
  Shines Gr phaino, phainomal: that which appears, shines, or manifests itself and must have a reality behind it.  It cannot be just a figment of imagination.  suggests something may shine without anyone seeing it.
  Darkness Gr skotia, darkness with the prevailing idea of unhappiness or ruin.  As light is not only the emblem of happiness but is itself beneficial, darkness, in like manner works unhappiness.  thus, skotia(darkness) is not a figurative term for sin, but the consequences of sin.

John 1:9 "There was the true light which, coming into the world enlightenseveryman."
Enlightens Gr photizo, to enlighten, give light to in a spiritual sense, to make to see, to understand, to bring to light.

John 1`:12 " but as many as received Him, to them He gave the rightto become children of God, even to those who believe in His name."
  Right Gr excousia, permission, authority, power to do, denies the presence of a hindrance, combines the ideas of right and might.  As far as right, authority or capability is concerned it involves ability, power, strength.

John1:13  "Who were born not of blood, nor of the willof the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of  (the will of) God."
   Will Gr thelema, will, not to be conceived as demand, but as an expression or inclination of pleasure towards that which is liked, that which pleases and creates joy.   (I love that definition!)

John1:14  "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of graceand truth."
   GloryGr doxa  to recognize for what a person is, glory.
  GraceGr charis   from chairo, to rejoice, or from chara, joy, favor, acceptance, a kindness granted.  A favor done without expectation of return: absolute  freeness of the lovingkindness of God to men finding its only motive in the bounty and freeheartedness of the giver: unearned or unmerited favor.  Charis stands in direct antithesis to erga(Gr), works, the two being mutually exclusive. 
  Truth Gr aletheia, truth, as the unveiled reality lying at the basis of and agreeing with an appearance, the manifested, the veritable essence of a matter.  The reality clearly lying before our eyes, as opposed to a mere appearance, without reality.

P.S. i don't know if I did the underlining corectly.  If not this post will look very strange!

  Christian love to you all.   


Title: Re: John 1
Post by: pylady on April 20, 2007, 01:13:57 AM
Oops!!!  guess I did mess up.  don't know how to turn the underlining off!  Meant to just underline the key words not the whole thing!  boy do I feel stupid!

            cindy    :-[ ???
Title: Re: John 1
Post by: gmik on April 20, 2007, 09:01:20 PM

Ha.  Don't worry about it Cindy!  I am just so glad to hear from you. (NewYork, right???)

Anyway, w/ or w/o the underlining, that really was a blessing to read.  So much in there!!  Thanks!
Title: Re: John 1
Post by: iris on April 20, 2007, 09:32:40 PM
Hi Cindy,

I'm sorry to hear you have been without your computer.
That must have been hard.
Those are great scriptures and need to be underlined.
Like Gena said, don't worry about it.
Thanks for sharing.

Title: Re: John 1
Post by: DWIGHT on April 21, 2007, 05:18:07 PM
Hi Cindy,

I love this word grace. 

GraceGr charis   from chairo, to rejoice, or from chara, joy, favor, acceptance, a kindness granted.  A favor done without expectation of return: absolute  freeness of the lovingkindness of God to men finding its only motive in the bounty and freeheartedness of the giver: unearned or unmerited favor.  Charis stands in direct antithesis to erga(Gr), works, the two being mutually exclusive.

This really brings home the meaning of this word.  Thanks for sharing and doing the research. To me this shows the absolute sovereignty of God. Man can find its only motive in the bounty and freehearteness of the giver.  Amen!

In Him,


Title: Re: John 1
Post by: Redbird on April 21, 2007, 06:25:58 PM

That was a delight to read.  I do not recall ever hearing those verses in the "church" and I was so touched the first time I came across John 1 in my bible.  It was like the beginning to really seeing the light.

Thank you sister,
Title: Re: John 1
Post by: humblebob on April 21, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
Hi to everyone (incidentally, "humblebob" does not refer to the character quality but to my residence, Humble, Texas).  ;)

Thanks Cindy for your diligent search into Greek insights from John chapter 1.  The word "photizo" in John 1.9, translated, in the Amplified, "illumines," is of course very important, because whatever this word "photizo" signifies, Christ performs it toward "every person."  Perhaps the word means that Christ gives every person sufficient revelation of God so that they are without excuse as to the requirement to repent (Acts 17.30, Romans 1.20, 3.19, 11:32, etc).

Such an interpretation of John 1:9 would likely be agreeable to Calvinists, Arminians, and Universalists alike. They would all agree that every person is required to repent and has been given adequate revelation to do so. But the three groups would of course disagree on how all of humanity would eventually respond to the illumination of John 1.9. For the Calvinist, only the elect (a sub-group of all humans) will respond in a saving way, for the Arminian, only those who exercise their free choice properly will respond (again a sub-group of all humans), and to the Universalist ALL will eventually respond and be saved. (Also, in theory, there could be some Arminians and Calvinists who are also Universalists but I'm not aware of this).

If the word "photizo" in John 1.9 could be shown to mean, when properly translated, that Christ brings everyone to a saving knowledge of God, then the verse would seem to endorse Universalism (assuming, of course, that the term "every person" really means "every individual person" and not "every category of person" as the Calvinist would insist)!

While we probably can't resolve the Calvinist / Arminian / Universalist debate from John 1.9 alone, this verse does illustrate the importance of individual Greek words in our pursuit of theological insight. 

Best regards, HumbleBob.

Title: Re: John 1
Post by: hebrewroots98 on April 21, 2007, 07:30:00 PM
Wow, Humblebob, i noticd that this was your first another Texan ;D!!!(How far is Humble from Lubbock-where I live?)  Are there any other like minded believers in your area; or family memebers?  Good post...keep it coming!
Title: Re: John 1
Post by: pylady on April 22, 2007, 12:35:07 AM
Hi humblebob,

Welcome, it's good to hear from you.
I'm not familiar with the arminian religion, but I sure searched a lot of other religions and philosophys of men.  Found they were all teachings and opinions of men.  They talk and discuss and interperate endlessly, but don't listen to the clear ring of truth in God's own word.

Will the light of Christ Jesus bring a SAVING (I don't dare underline ;)) knowledge of God to all mankind?  Let's ask Him.

Is 45:22,23  "Turn to Me and be saved all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.  I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth, from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back.  That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.  They will say of Me, only in the Lord are righteousness and strength."

1John2:2 "for He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

1Tim 4:9,10 It is a trustworthy statement deserving of full acceptance...we have fixed our hope on the living God who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of those who believe."

1Samuel 14:14  "Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die.  But God does not take away life; instead, He devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from Him."

Phil 2:10,11  "that at the name of Jesus  every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

Those are just a few Scriptures that show salvation for all men.  Have you read any of Ray's articles, especially the Lake of Fire series?  He gives many, many scriptures to prove salvation of all, and much much more.

Christian love,
Title: Re: John 1
Post by: humblebob on April 22, 2007, 04:40:35 AM
Hi Cindy,

In the Arminian / Calvinist debate that I referred to earlier, I understand that the terms "Arminian" and "Calvinist" refer to two schools of thought, i.e., two opposing streams of theological tradition, with regard to various aspects of Christian salvation. The Arminian tradition holds that humans exercise genuine, unencumbered free will in accepting or rejecting salvation, while Calvinists stress that God's direct, sovereign action, not human free choice, is the essential dynamic in human salvation. Also, while Arminians assert that God has made a universal offer of salvation to all people, Calvinists hold that Christian salvation was only intended by God to benefit the elect, who represent a non-universal sub-set of all people.   

(If the above brief summation is oversimplified or in error, I welcome corrective input from those better informed on the subject).

In your list of Scripture references pertinent to Universalism, I was really blessed by your inclusion of 2 Samuel 14.14. Recently while preparing to debate and defend Ray's position on Universal salvation, I compiled what I thought to be the 15-20 most important Scripture references that would support my position.  Somehow I missed 2 Samuel 14.14, even though I had run across it a few months ago in a study of 1 and 2 Samuel.

This passage in Samuel, reminds me of Romans 4.5 and 5.10, where God is said to justify the ungodly and to reconcile us to Himself while we were enemies. God has found a way to justify and to reconcile to Himself His ungodly enemies. While this fact alone might not prove Universalism, it does, I think, make Universalism more plausible. Since we know that God can justify an ungodly enemy, it only remains to be shown that God is willing to justify ALL ungodly ones (to which Arminians agree), and that God is able to justify ALL the ungodly ones whom He is willing to justify (to which Calvinists agree).

God Bless,

 Humble Bob

Title: Re: John 1
Post by: gmik on April 23, 2007, 12:45:09 AM
Welcome Humble Bob.  Good discussion.
Title: Re: John 1
Post by: pylady on April 23, 2007, 09:42:38 PM

Humblebob,  I guess 1Tim2:34 is what convinced me. 

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL have ALL men to be saved , and to come unto a knowledge of the truth."

This is what the Lexicon to the New Testament says about this word WILL.
#2309  Thelo:to will.  There is a distinction between "thelo" and the Greek word "boulomai" #1014  which also is translated "will".  "Thelo" indicates not only willing something, but also pressing on to action.

Is 45:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done.  Saying, "My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure."

If God has declared He wills for all men to be saved, will He not accomplish it?

Is 45:23  "The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
             And will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue
             will swear allegiance."

But above all "God is love."  He will open everyones mind to the meaning of this in His due time.

Thank you for giving me a chance to look up these Scriptures.  I wish I knew them by heart, but there is something to be said about searching thru the verses because I always find something new, or a new insight.

With Christian love,