=> Email to Ray => Topic started by: Craig on June 03, 2006, 06:17:59 PM

Title: Stop and think
Post by: Craig on June 03, 2006, 06:17:59 PM
And NO MAN [pay close attention to the phrase "no man," Tim, seeing that Enoch WAS A MAN] has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the SON OF MAN which is in heaven" (John 3:13).

    God be with you,


 Ray, Ray Ray.  Please stop and think for one moment.

    No man has returned to Heaven but he that came down from Heaven, even Jesus Christ.    

    Those born from above (The Sons of God/Saints) are born from above (not by flesh or blood) and will return to whence they came.

    Unless a person is born from above, he will not return unless grafted into the olive tree (elected).  Once elected into the Olive tree, one will not die.   Now just because one believes even in his name, this does not constitute the position of Elect let alone Saint, but it does entitle one to be raised after the Millinium at the Last trump.

    As David said after his son died, “He can not come to us, but we must go to himâ€?.  Where was the baby?  In heaven!  Why?  Because the baby was Born from above (The logical conclusion), being one of David’s house.

    I arrest my discussion on this topic.  One needs to understand what to be born from above is, what it is to be grafted (elected), and from that one can understand what Jesus meant in respect to the parallel between the Wind and the Spirit of one Born from Above.

    Once again, You must be born from above to return to the above.  Born from above as Jesus was and is and has return.  Enoch was born from above after his flesh life was over here, he returned from whence he came.


    Dear Tim:

    Excuse me for getting "technical," but where do you see the word "RETURN" in John 3:13?  You made that up?  I see the word "ASCENDED," but I do not see the word "RETURNED."  Your whole email is all made-up. You refuse to believe the word of God. This discussion is over.

    God be with you,

Title: Stop and think
Post by: Craig on June 05, 2006, 03:35:50 PM
You have a air of pride when you write in concern with scripture, none-the-less I can overlook this.  For the sake of learning, for we know we all see as looking through a dark glass (at best) and you must understand the deeper meaning of Jesus’ speech in concern with ascending.
John 3:13  (Darby Translation)

  13 And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

This is the proper interpretation thereof.

I hope you can understand this.  No one goes up unless they came down “OUT OF HEAVENâ€? (Even Jesus is constrained to this truth therefore the reason he says …Even the Son of Man (Who is the Son of Man in the plural sense?, I hope you will reveal your understanding in this matter).

I hope you will take a couple minutes out of your busy day to read the following:

There are those born from above (natural olive branches), there are those who are grafted into the Olive Tree (Gentiles, called and then chosen), and then there is the Wheat which is all adamic man.

I can discuss this in full detail with scripture if you can bare it.


Dear Troll:

And, as Enoch and Elijah never "came down FROM heaven," neither did they (by Christ's own words), neither did they, therefore, ever GO UP to heaven.

No, I do not wish to discuss this endlessly. I have over 600 unanswered emails ahead of yours, and this is my last disucssion of your thinking that Jesus is His OWN FATHER.

God be with you,