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 31 
 on: August 17, 2018, 02:44:39 AM 
Started by lareli - Last post by Wanda
My psychology may well be affected by scriptural accounts.  But when I am well and truly, really dead, no psychology will save me from that state.

Right you are Dave. I am counting on literally  being resurrected,  just as literally as Jesus was.

 32 
 on: August 17, 2018, 01:44:27 AM 
Started by lareli - Last post by Dave in Tenn
My psychology may well be affected by scriptural accounts.  But when I am well and truly, really dead, no psychology will save me from that state.

 33 
 on: August 17, 2018, 01:24:59 AM 
Started by octoberose - Last post by Dave in Tenn

...That would end the whole discussion if I could show (those like this person, and me too) that the word OF should not be there.   If I looked up a Greek new testament it's not going to have the word OF there?

That is correct.  But I don't necessarily blame the translators.  There are many times when a word-for-word translation doesn't produce a grammatical English sentence. 

Here it is in my most word-for-word translation:

Gal 2:7  but on the other hand, having seen that I have been trusted with the good news of the uncircumcised as Peter of the circumcision, Gal 2:8  (for the one operating in Peter for commission of the circumcision, operated also to me among the nations)...

To leave out "of" or some other joining word (like "to" or "for") makes the translation wonky.  To put it there in an attempt to express the thought in English makes theologians salivate.  It's presence or absence is not really the point.  It's true that it is not in the Greek.  So there should be no rush to assume that a full expression of the phrase implies that there are two Gospels based on the audience.  This is overwhelmingly especially true when you continue reading, and also read those related verses without theological goggles on. 

Quote
I should know how to do this, but I don't really.  I have a CLV but I'd rather see the Greek.

A good tool for this is simply the KJV with strong's numbers and a dictionary or two keyed to them.  Esword comes with the KJV with Strong's numbers and Strong's and Thayer's Greek dictionaries are keyed to that system and others may be.  The numbers relate to the words in Greek. 

Quote
And of course you know the whole theology of God setting up  Old Testament Law in the next age is dependent on this.  This is the crux for this theology.  But it really is going backwards isn't it?...

I certainly think so.  But I'm not a theologian...not even a humorously self-described one.  There will be no jew or greek.  One Spirit, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.  No profit in circumcision.  No profit in uncircumcision.

 34 
 on: August 16, 2018, 10:36:19 PM 
Started by ML - Last post by ML
Have any of you heard the Loon sound? Really nice.

https://youtu.be/Ib0CxvL8Bp8

 35 
 on: August 16, 2018, 10:30:35 PM 
Started by ML - Last post by ML
Interestingly, it won't cost one single cent either.
I feel extremely blessed,  that God called me to understand his truth, so I don't have to live in ignorance anymore.
2 Corinthians 4
6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

8We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

9Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

1 Peter 2
9and ye [are] a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light

Micah 7
8Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

9The indignation of Jehovah I do bear, For I have sinned against Him, Till that He doth plead my cause, And hath executed my judgment, He doth bring me forth to the light, I look on His righteousness.

John 1
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

1 John 1
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


 36 
 on: August 16, 2018, 09:35:24 PM 
Started by ML - Last post by indianabob

Ha ha,
My third tithe year we did pretty well with saving for the fall Festival, second tithe...
But then we took a couple of families out for dinner to substitute for widows and orphans.
In all honesty I never was able to look God in the eye during my 30 years in WWCG.
So when I learned of L. Ray Smith I took my whole first tithe and celebrated with my wife and kids.
I'm pretty sure that Headquarters didn't appreciate that...smile ::)

tell me about the tithes.  my ďthird titheĒ year put me into bankruptcy.  that should earn me some salvation points.

 37 
 on: August 16, 2018, 05:10:37 PM 
Started by lareli - Last post by Dennis Vogel
I believe itís all (the scriptures) true. Spiritually and Psychologically. Literally? I donít know. I donít know if it matters.

As Ray likes to say about "Literal"

Mat 18:8  Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Mat 18:9  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

 38 
 on: August 16, 2018, 04:17:12 PM 
Started by lareli - Last post by lareli
I believe itís all (the scriptures) true. Spiritually and Psychologically. Literally? I donít know. I donít know if it matters.

 39 
 on: August 16, 2018, 04:11:10 PM 
Started by ML - Last post by Wanda
Thanks for the religeous satire ML, it was quite fun. However,  it reminded me of my own painful experience with the doctrin of lies, and how by the teachings of a simple and humble man, like Ray Smith, I was freed from that sad, painful and fearful place of emotional torture.

I listened to the audio again,   Getting Saved - The Hardest Thing You will Ever Do.

https://youtu.be/nyw60TBhQJo

Interestingly, it won't cost one single cent either.
I feel extremely blessed,  that God called me to understand his truth, so I don't have to live in ignorance anymore.

 40 
 on: August 16, 2018, 03:37:05 PM 
Started by octoberose - Last post by indianabob
Hi Dennis,

I erred in calling grace a covenant or agreement. I meant to say a gospel or news about grace.
Thanks for catching that.
If I may I will quote the scripture that brought this to my attention.

Thanks, Indiana bob


Eph 3:1  For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 
Eph 3:2  If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 
Eph 3:3  How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 
Eph 3:4  Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 
Eph 3:5  Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 
Eph 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 
Eph 3:7  Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 


Following up with:

Col 1:25  Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 
Col 1:26  Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 
Col 1:27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 
Col 1:28  Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 


Then in Romans it seems that Paul is sharing something that was not previously known or taught by any of the other apostles. What am I missing here?

Rom 15:15  Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 
Rom 15:16  That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 
Rom 15:17  I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 
Rom 15:18  For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 
Rom 15:19  Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 
Rom 15:20  Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 
Rom 15:21  But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. 


And it seemed that even apostle Peter found Paul's gospel hard to explain to his Jewish brethren.

2Pe 3:14  Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 
2Pe 3:15  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 
2Pe 3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 

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