Chrissie you wrote,
I know that Ray says that the coma is in the wrong place and that it really should be: "Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."
I have to say that on this I do disagree and not because I think that the thief on the cross went to paradise 'that day' when he died... but because I believe that the Lord was telling him a SPIRITUAL TRUTH.
Exactly how I'm seeing this Chrissie. Not a "die thing" and "go to paradise". Who was "caught up to paradise" and never had to "physically" die to do it, couldn't even tell if it was "in the body" or "out of the body" to do it. I see the Lord declaring "the day" as in "To day" not in a literal 12- 24 hour day but declaring "THE" works finished. Paul expounded on this, "a certain day" while it is "called To day". I know Paul wasn't giving them a literal 24 hours here.
Chrissie you added
I think you see these things similar to the way that I do. At least the way that you piece and tie them together is similar to the way that I do. So when is "today"?
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
and here:
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Excellent verses His rest is paradise, well it is to me :lol:
What are we to HEAR? Who HEARS IT? WHEN?
John 5:25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall HEAR the voice of the Son of God: and THEY that HEAR shall LIVE.[/u]
To me thats the "To Day" if WE HEAR HIS VOICE. WE who WERE DEAD in our SINS after a SPIRITUAL TRUTH as His words are SPIRIT and LIFE. Our LIFE is HID in Christ and we LIVE by His POWER and HIS LIFE (though DEATH) yet manifested IN our MORTAL BODY
Getting back to the verses concerning "the rest"
Notice where he swares... Heb 3:11 So I sware in my
wrath, They shall
not enter into my rest.) Now I know
the law worketh wrath Romans 4:15 and Gal 3:12
the law is "not of faith"...
Without faith it is impossible to "please Him"
Heb 4:3 For we which have
believed do enter into rest, as he said, As
I have sworn in my wrath,
if they shall enter into my rest: although
the works were finished[/u] from the foundation of the world.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting LIFE[/b]: and he that
believeth not the Son shall
NOT SEE life; but
the wrath of God abideth on him. (could not "enter" because of unbelief)
Cant SEE LIFE, why? Isaiah 9:19
Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire:
no man shall SPARE "his BROTHER. (not "resting
here")
Theres
Simply "No rest" Christ redeemed from the curse of the law. No rest right here (fear having the "torment" we find).
Notice the word "ASSURANCE" in the next few verses
Duet 28:66 And
THY LIFE shall hang IN DOUBT before thee; and
thou shalt FEAR (which hath torment) day and night, and shalt have
NONE ASSURANCE FOR THY LIFE:
Heres the EFFECT of Christ in us, He who IS "Our Rest and our Peace"
Isaiah 32:17
And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and ASSURANCE for ever.[/u]
1Thes 1:5 For our gospel came
not unto you in WORD ONLY, but also
IN POWER, and
in the Holy Ghost, and in
MUCH ASSURANCE; as ye know what "manner of men" we were among you for "your sake".
Chrissie wrote,
1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past (yesterday), and the true light now (today) shineth.
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Amen! The hating ones brother, the darkness (by wrath a land is "darkened") and HERE no man will SPARE HIS BROTHER. He hateth his brother. Like greivous (or sever wolves) they SPARE NOT "the Flock". As the Lord said the wrath abideth on them, they simply cannot SEE Life. He that hateth his brother (or loveth him not) is in that very darkness we came from. We were "sometimes in darkness" but now "light in the Lord". We were once "children of wrath" it says but when the love and mercy of God appeared he saved us. We got a great God!
Chrissie wrote
From where I sit, you need not move the coma. You just need to know what is meant by "Today" and understand that it was a SPIRITUAL TRUTH that was being spoken... and look BEYOND the letter.
Beautifully put Chrissie. I know I have caught myself getting caught up on something as small as a "comma", and I agree whats "To day" all about? Thats the question isn't it? :lol:
Chrissie wrote,
Christ was speaking a spiritual truth when he told the thief "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise", not a physical one. We know this to be true because ALL of His words were SPIRIT AND TRUTH.
Amen Chrissie I'm hearing you loud and clear. As I might have mentioned a bit earlier on, it took not a "physical death" to be caught up into pardise. What a TRIP huh? :lol: TAKE ME LORD! I'm saying :lol:
Thank you for adjusting that for me, I might know how I see that verse but it might be assumed I mean something I don't. As
that day being "To day" as being in that 24 hour period type day. OR seeing it as an He "died and went to paradise" thing. Not at all. Thank God Paul wrote what he wrote concerning paradise. It cuts through the thought of the physical body needing to die to "go there" (so to speak). It clears off comma (hysteria) right off the "things to deal with" list. One verse carefully looked at can take away ever having to wrest over it the long and hard way :lol: with those endless pages of historical accounts, dictionarys etc. :shock:
That would drive me crazy to go through such hoops :lol:
Daniel