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[John from Kentucky]

About 25 years ago, I attended a CPA tax conference in Washington D.C.  A group of us stayed at a swanky hotel near the White House.  One night after a great meal and liberal consumption of alcohol, about ten of us decided to do a nighttime tour of Washington.  After much hooting and hollering, we came to the Vietnam War Memorial.  As we began to walk through, everybody became quiet.  Not a word was spoken.  We were all about the same ages of the tens of thousands of dead men whose names were written on the monument walls.  It really sobered us up.

I feel the same way when I go back and read old posts on the Forum.  I have gone all the way back as far as I can on the various posts and read forward.  I am shocked, saddened, chagrined when I see all the names that have gone "black" and are no longer active members.  Most think the Forum is the greatest thing ever, filled with the truths of God.  That Ray is a profound teacher sent by God.  They quote scriptures after scriptures.  Discuss the Hebrew and Greek meanings of the words.  Many make very profound statements about the truths we have learned here.  Some were moderators or leaders on the Forum.  But now it seems, the many are no longer around.  There are a few names that have stayed the course these many years.

Anyway, if anyone is in need of being sobered up, go back and read the old posts and see if you have the same reaction as me.

[EKnight]

I've had those same thoughts John.  I often wonder if my name will someday go black. I also wonder where and why they went. 

Eileen

[Akira329]

During my time on the forum I have seen many come a go and for various reasons.
Some come to the forum with great expectations
Some come with a lowly heart to be healed by the edification of others
Some come out of curiosity
Some come because they just liking talking about scriptures
Some come to change the hearts of other forum members
Some come with their own teachings
Some can't handle the forum rules
Some come to find out how to win arguments
Some just out-grow the forum
Some are just plain frustrated with the forum

I'm sure there are many other reasons many of us can come up with. For whatever reasons people come and go.
It will always be that way till Dennis shuts it down.
If anything, appreciate the friendships you have made here and seek to keep in contact with others of your choosing.
Even if the forum isn't here the fellowship will never cease.

It always great to go back and read older post. Many topics and questions have been throughly covered.
More than I can say about any other Christian forum where the topics and threads seem endless.

Antaiwan

[Dave in Tenn]

I'd just add to Antaiwan's list:  Some have lapsed and returned with different log-in names.   

I don't just look at the members.  At any given time, guests greatly outnumber members logged in, reading the forum discussions or getting at the audios, videos, transcripts and other materials and aides.  Sometimes I think WE are really here for THEM.  Good reason to keep a peaceable and focused forum.

 

[Stacey]

This came to mind when I read your post John from Kentucky

Rotherham - John 3:8

The spirit, where it pleaseth, doth breathe, and, the sound thereof, thou hearest; but knowest not, whence it cometh and whither it goeth: Thus, is every one who hath been born of the spirit.

[Samson]

About 25 years ago, I attended a CPA tax conference in Washington D.C.  A group of us stayed at a swanky hotel near the White House.  One night after a great meal and liberal consumption of alcohol, about ten of us decided to do a nighttime tour of Washington.  After much hooting and hollering, we came to the Vietnam War Memorial.  As we began to walk through, everybody became quiet.  Not a word was spoken.  We were all about the same ages of the tens of thousands of dead men whose names were written on the monument walls.  It really sobered us up.

I feel the same way when I go back and read old posts on the Forum.  I have gone all the way back as far as I can on the various posts and read forward.  I am shocked, saddened, chagrined when I see all the names that have gone "black" and are no longer active members.  Most think the Forum is the greatest thing ever, filled with the truths of God.  That Ray is a profound teacher sent by God.  They quote scriptures after scriptures.  Discuss the Hebrew and Greek meanings of the words.  Many make very profound statements about the truths we have learned here.  Some were moderators or leaders on the Forum.  But now it seems, the many are no longer around.  There are a few names that have stayed the course these many years.

Anyway, if anyone is in need of being sobered up, go back and read the old posts and see if you have the same reaction as me.

Hi John,

           I noticed this Thread approximately a week ago and considered it interesting, but it was a bad time for me to respond. John Popovich and I often go back checking the History of Old Threads and Forum Members from years gone by and also wonder Why certain ones leave. Apparently, the reasons mentioned on this thread from various posts basically covers it. I guess the bottom line is that it could happen to any one of us. I made a few friends with former Forum Members, but only one I still have contact with through telephone conversation. This particular Person still believes Ray's teachings, but left for reasons I won't publicly disclose, I guess that's there prerogative. Many times after reading a new members first few Posts from years ago and noticing they soon leave, it reminds me of the seed that falls and is unable to take root because of the Rocky Soil, they became scorched and withered away. (Matt. 13:5,6, 20, 21)

          Anyway, it seems that many fall in that category, joining the Forum, having great Joy from hearing these Truths, then they quickly disappear. Well, for whatever it's worth, that's my observation. Thanks for starting this Thread, because some of Us often wonder about these individuals, too.

                         Kind Regards, Samson.

[arion]

We have a gem here the likes of which is found almost nowhere else on the internet that I am aware of.  There are hundreds of thousands of forums on the internet and thousands of Christian forums but only a handful that I'm aware of that teach the 'full' gospel.  (Of course back in my pentacostal days the 'full' gospel meant something different to me than it does now but I digress.) And of that handful this is the one that is the most consistent and has the most activity on it.  I lurked here for a few years before joining and there are so many that peruse the website, download/listen to the audios and read the forum that we may never know how much seed that truly goes forth.  Once God got my attention on these truths it was relatively easy for me to discard the false teachings that I both believed and lived for many years.  But I know that this too is of God.  I've been out of the established church for years even before coming to the website and being single I don't have the family dynamics to contend with as those who have spouses, parents and children who don't receive the truths that we have been shown. 

I was walking my dog early this morning and reflecting on the truths, hope and freedom we have in Christ.  I no longer worry about the millions who fail to hear of their own 'free will' and who are going to go to the christian 'hell' because they failed to make a 'free will' choice for Christ.  I no longer worry about making the grade myself neither am I burdened with the false idea that men choose where they are going to spend eternity.  I know that hard times are ahead for this world and especially this nation we live in but am comforted with the knowledge that God has all under control and that in the ages to come God will be All in All.  For really the first time in my life I'm living the words of Christ where he said; 'Come to me all ye who labor and are heavily burdened and I will give you rest.'  As I reflect on all these things I'm beginning to realize just how blessed I/we really are.  Thanks be to God!!

[Craig]

People come and go but we must remember wherever they are now, they are where God wants them to be.  Some move on to weightier matters of scripture, some tire of the grind the forum can be if we don't get a break once in awhile.  Less than 10 per every 100 who join will stick around for over 2 years.  I wondered why some leave, but all is of God and I don't spend much time pondering it.  When they go, most I look at as old friends who I will meet up with again someday.  The business of the world makes it hard to follow or spend much time on the forum and if we try too hard we can become overwhelmed.

Most all of us here are non-conformists in some way, and many, though the truths of God excite them, cannot conform to the forum and it's rules.  I wish the forum could have no rules and everyone on the internet could join and all would be great, but that is not the case.  If anyone has ever been on any other forums or chats on the internet (not just religious related) they will see how bad things get.  That is not to say we are perfect, but we try to be focused and centered around the teaching that brings us here, most cannot conform to this for the long haul.  I don't believe for a minute that God want's us to be mind numbed robots and He honors our individualism, but do you all not think we are being created in and being conformed to His image?  The beast is strong in all of us and for the majority of us here who do not conform to the world around us, we don't want to conform to a few rules here either.

We are all brothers and sisters here, but like in our own families some rub us the wrong way and we become irritated.  When that happens you don't have to lash out, get mad, etc. You can ignore some posts.  And remember the person who rubs you wrong is God's child the same as you, and He don't make no lemons.

So before you delete your account or go quietly away, consider if the rules you agree to when joining are that much too restrictive, or if it may be something inside you?   We as moderators or members do not force any beliefs or actions on your part, we only ask that while you are in this house to abide by the rules you agree on when we let you in.  If you ever have a question about anything, pm one of use for clarification.

Craig

[mharrell08]

Where do you go to learn weightier matters of scripture?

On the Forum we have learned that all has come out of God and that God will be all in all.  That God will bring salvation to everyone in the heavens and on the earth; He will save all mankind, all angels, even Satan.  That we do not have freewill.  That God is totally sovereign and controls everything, both good and evil.  That God created evil.  That each human is the Beast; that the Beast is within all of us and it must die.  Ray presented the idea (I believe it was at the last meeting of the 2007 Nashville conference) that God birthed Wisdom, with the implication that God learned.  That He may have gone through suffering in the past.  That He had to develop the character trait of long-suffering.

Wow, those teachings seem to be very profound and weighty to me.  They seem to be more than milk.  More like strong whiskey.  So where do you go to get stronger drink than that?

I cannot speak for every teaching that is out there. But everything other members or what not have tried to show me in times past, has been fool's gold. One can find many teachings out in the world and 'judge them by their fruits' [Matt 7:15-16] for themselves.

From studying the scriptures, everything you list above are 'weighter matters'. But, just like the children of Israel, people gain 'itching ears' and want to hear something new:

* Some want to know what every single symbol means in the book of Daniel & Revelation, when in actuality, the book of Revelation is the Unveiling of Christ in YOU. The book of Daniel further supports this. This mindset is one of being more concerned with a shadow instead of the reality.

* Some want to know about divisions within the synoptic gospels. As if the book of Matthew is for one body of people, book of Mark for another, etc. As Paul said, Is Christ divided? [1 Cor 1:13]

* Some want to know about division within the apostles' teachings, as if what they taught was different. Paul, Peter, John, etc. were different people but of all one body, one bread. Paul directly addresses this nonsense in 1 Cor Chapter 3, but that doesn't stop the conspiracy theorists.

* Some have gone full circle back to embracing Babylon and all it's wickedness. Their reasoning is simple: All is of God so the false teachers are doing what God 'wants' them to do.

Their reasoning is foolish: Ezek 33:7-8  “So you, son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me. When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die!’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.

* Some want to know every last detail of Christ coming to reign on the earth and judge humanity AND God being all in all. How on earth are God's thoughts so much higher than our thoughts [Isa 55:9], but yet we think we can deduce everything He is going to do. There is a point where our brains cannot spiritually go there...acceptance of this is the beginning of humility. (And I have eaten my share of humble pie on this subject  ).

* And some teachings out there, though they believe in the salvation of all, are completely out in left field:  Aliens, World Politics being the fulfillment of spiritual prophecies, God being a literal gray-haired man, different races of people being the literal children of Satan, etc. Again you can find all these things out in the world and judge them for oneself.

As Paul taught, we should be content in whatever state God has us in [Phil 4:11]. I wouldn't worry about where all the 'flowers' have gone, because more often than not, those same flowers have become thorns & thistles.

Hold on to the truth and DO NOT let it go,

Marques

[walt123]

I think Craig said it well.

I also think some may have not left at all,for what ever reason just do not post,but still come
to the forum to read whats posted from others.

I do not think its a mandate to be a posting member on this site in order to be consider in good standing with
posting members,God is in charged and knows who are his at this time,and will finish his work in us.

Walt

[Craig]

John,

Marques answered better than I could.  What I mean by weightier matters, are the things Ray may not have touched on or those wanting to develop their thoughts deeper in the subjects Ray has presented.   Things that whether they are right or wrong, are not subjects we allow to be brought out into the forum.  If you see a nugget of gold in scripture, the first thing we want is to share it with our forum family.  Unfortunately that is not the forums purpose, when we stop it, it causes hurt feelings.  If we allowed anything to be posted then the moderators would have a full time job discerning these nuggets and making more mistakes than we do now, and watching everyone argue with everyone else.  We have a core set of teaching to talk about, the other "weightier" matters will have to be between them and God and friend and others off forum.

Like you said in so many words.  I think we have been given enough meat to last us two of these lifetimes, it's just that some want to also get all the seasoning and condiments to go along with it.  The only problem is; though sometimes it can make the meat better, most of the time ruins the meat.

Craig

[Samson]

O.K. Everyone, read and understood.  It is amazing the depth of the truth and information put on this website over about ten years.  There is enough meat here for two lifetimes.

Amen to what you stated above Brother: "Enough meat for two lifetimes." Whenever I read or listen to one Article of Ray's and go on to another and eventually go back and listen or read the one from a few Months ago, points that I originally didn't retain initially are almost like New information.

                             Kind Regards, Samson.

[Deborah-Leigh]

We are not children here and I want to talk with you as we always have, being one grown up to another. I speak from personal experience and insight that cannot ignore your observations and valid questions.

We all experience the “weightier matters of scripture” as Craig identifies whether we are spiritual children or not. We all have to learn not only to know the Scriptures but to apply them as well. The application is the “weightier matter of scripture” we all encounter as we agree, discern and accept the Truth and experience our expulsion, rejection and disapproval from those who follow deceptions.

The study and the practice of discerning other writings, beliefs or false teachings,  IS also a weightier exercise as one has to discern between fact and fiction, seduction and Truth, good and evil when navigating through what others believe and/or may assert or teach as Truth or personal opinion. Rom 14:5  ……… Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind….. is a “weightier matter of Scripture” because one becomes critically aware of the importance of what we believe. What we believe has  consequences to our faith, motives, preferences and understanding of our God. We can experience the weightier consequences of what we believe and know to be the Truth in simple interactions of daily exchange we have with people who cross our paths in seemingly unimportant circumstances.
 
•   We all have the occasion of feeling “out” there even if we do not venture out into other forums of discussion or other writings that present other ideas and other teachings. What we believe is important and what we learn needs to be integrated into our thoughts, minds beliefs and convictions. What we believe is as important as what we eat. It is said we are what we eat. It follows, we are what we believe. That is why it is vital that no ulterior, counterfeit or false teachings can be made welcome or made central to the Forum. As John says, we have enough Truth here to digest for two life times! We can live happily here in the close nit community of fellow citizens of Truth and Faith.

We are in training here to learn the Truth that is so vital to our spiritual well being and the experience of its application, that is equipping us for the Kingdom of God. For example, if we read something and gloss over an error, that error can find root in our belief systems like the sowing of the tare in the wheat field. If that happens, there is no one “outside” to help out except our understanding, acceptance and integration of the Truth that is presented flawlessly through Rays writings. The exercise of discernment is a weighty exercise and one that is necessary as we learn to discern for ourselves and adhere for ourselves to what we know is the Truth. We all need to learn discernment, and good from evil. The inimitable practice of discernment is seen evidenced by Ray  himself in his papers that disengage fact from fiction in unmatched excellence contained in the several papers written to expose the heresy of false beliefs that are applauded, believed and followed in Christendom’s false teachings presented by their heroes of false faith Hagee etc.
 
The discussions and insights that come from scrutinizing such false teachings is part of our growing up into the stature of Christ who stood for Truth and is the Truth. To go where carnal mindedness cannot venture is part of the journey into the Heart of the Truth as we learn to see as Christ sees and do as Christ does. It is a learning process guarded, sanctioned and advanced in the BT Forum like no other place I know of in the world. Just like Ray says, show me one or two Scriptures…show me…we too can assert the same. Show us one Forum like ours…just one…there isn’t one! This is THE ONE whether you are lurking,contributing or just reading and following along.

For me the BT Forum was the starting stage that equips, strengthens and enlightens to fully grasp the huge impact of the Truth as we are given to absorb, discuss, appreciate, acknowledge and fully understand before we venture into practicing what we believe both privately and with the Person and Presence of Christ, as we discern and weigh up for our edification, experience and understanding what it means when we encounter others who do not know or want to know the Truth. There is encouragement that we can bring to others learning to do the same and experiencing the same difficulties in adapting to the many who refuse the few and prefer popularity over truth, acceptance over integrity and feelings over faith. It is no small matter to bump into such persons, believe me! They make up the ninety nine percent of the world’s population. We have to live with it learning to do so without pride, arrogance, bitterness,  anger or misery of seeming aloneness.
 
As such, the Forum needs not have any contact with any corrupted teachings as this is the sanctuary and haven where the Truth is first disseminated to those God is training in His Righteousness and Truth. Encouragement for me is a very special ministry best nurtured within protected sanctuary of the Forum here in BT.  Forum that is kept outside the lines of conflict and the war in spiritual places that are exposed by the Men of God such as Ray and Ray’s trusted allies and friends of God.
 
 BT for me is a Spiritual home I see as a base for Sons and Daughters of God in Training of His Righteousness and Spirit.
 We each carry our appointed spiritual weight of accountability before our Sovereign and Righteous God. We can help each other here with that weight through our contributions in encouragement edification and discernments that come from the Heart and Sprit of Christ who knows what it means to be living in His Image and is causing our experiences, exchanges and onward path in His Plan and Purpose for us all.  I am glad for each encounter with Gods appointed messengers of faith, challenge and opportunity to grow, strengthen and rise up into His Spirit of Faith and Truth.

Like an airplane that is taking off, one on the ground will see the tracks ….then nothing….nothing…but look up….look up….we all have a destination.
 
Arc

[cjwood]

where have they all gone?
and why did they go?
they've gone to where He led them,
because He purposed it so.

claudia

[jassy]

Arc, before I say anything just wanted to tell you your posts are a delight to read.

On the subject of rules of this forum ,I found them in the beginning to be a little constricting. Not with regard to alternative teachings but the absence of any politics or worldly news events being discussed. Also found I had to tippy toe around anything regarding churches and events organised by so called mainstream christians.

But I got over it, and realised I am actually glad that only Gods word is discussed. You would not believe how much nonsense is avoided. (But I think the moderators do ) I have been on a forum before and it eventually dissolves into a slanging match where religion or politics is broached.

 Also I lost my desire to discuss any worldly affairs in general and seek rather to meditate and give my attention to the Father and His will. A recent post confirmed my realisation that personal agendas and opinions have no place here. This is place you can inquire about Gods word, testify, fellowship and ask for prayer in safety. It is almost childlike in its innocence and lack of agenda. I pray it remains so.

[judith collier]

No there isn't another forum like this one Arc. Never has anyone before given me the 'bottom line' answers. Once you have been shown here the questions seem to fall away.
So where would I go if I left? By grace deeper into Christ. The depths of which i thought i had hit many times but there is always more. That place where God and the person are so entwined that you don't know where one begins and the other leaves off. Where you know it is not you that lives but Christ.
Judy