I have found that when talking to others about Universalism, even when they say they would like to know more about it, really they don't. They have too many biasis and can't see what your talking about or rather don't want to see your point of view. Just the other day I was talking to my dad because he expressed interest and wanted to know what I was studying. We talked but eventually when we disagreed, and I tried to say it another way he eventually just said I needed to pray more and walked off. I was kinda shocked because he asked me and then didn't actually want to hear what I said. As for posting on Orthodox Christian forums I havn't had any experience. I was talking with my old pastor but like you said we hit a brick wall. Mostly because of context and translation issues. I changed my approach with my old pastor--now I just ask questions from the Orthodox Christian POV and see how they answer. Then watch how they explain away so many scriptures or just say we can't know the answer we just need faith and believe that everything will be all right. It only affirms the Ultimate Reconcilliation view in my mind, that and I am really curious about their answers since their are so many views on such topics as the age of accountability, trinity, tithing, etc, etc, etc. And each church validates it in their mind with a scripture and all think they are correct. Their really is no use arguing with them as you've found out and as Ray has attested to in his replies to countless e-mails. As for the need to convince others that we are right I don't believe that is the goal of most who try to share. I would have to say that we want to share not to boost our ego in being right but sincerely wanting to help the individual find the truth and experience the freedom it brings. But like my dad still says "you can't help anyone who doesn't want to be helped."
lferretj
Hello Everyone,
I quoted the above, only because there are some points that I can identify with. Most of us know that
we should only share our faith and the hope that's in us in harmony with what's stated at 1Peter.3:15. Yet, even in
cases where someone asks us a question, they may not really like the answer we give them and start to turn this into
a debate, at this point, it's preferable to desist from continuing the discussion. As Ray has stated: " He who is convinced against their Will, is of the same opinion Still."
My Daughter used to ask questions to the affect, " Why do you believe such & such " and as soon as
I begin to provide the answer, she gets irritated and immediately atempts to contradict me, then proceeds to say something like: " You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe." I usually respond by saying: What's the sense of asking me a question, if you won't let me answer." So, my point is, even in cases where someone seems to
sincerely want an answer to a question, they sincerely don't want or care to hear your true answer.
A good example of the futility of debating an Orthodox Christian, especially one deeply rooted in it, is
the case involving Carrie Bradshaw, mainly because Jaccobsladder, Hell No and Babylon has Fallen(Daywalker) did an
excellent job explaining in full detail with Ray's material, the Scriptures and many examples to prove our stand on
different issues and She's still of the same opinion and in this case, this was a Universalist Type Hub, not an Orthodox
one.
I have a situation that involves me, where a workmate who already knows that I believe in the
Universal Reconcilition of All and claimed they even toyed with idea, they fully know my stand and had left it at
that, yet recently a relative of their's had died, in which this person attended their funeral and since this person was
an Atheist that died, the person I work with commented making reference to Hebrews. 10:31(Fearfull thing falling into
the hands of the living God), applying it to Non-Believers, Now keep in mind that he already knew my stance that
everyone eventually will be saved, although only a Chosen few in this Age. He waited for me to respond and I didn't,
I changed the subject and announced I was leaving to do something(work related), he had a smiley smirk on his
face and said, see you later. So, with the above in mind, What was his point in telling me something that he should
have already known what my answer would be. Was it to rile me up, debate or did he completely forget my stance
on these matters. Well, I didn't put myself in that position to find out and probably saved myself some unnecessary
grief.
So, with all of this in mind, whether debating with family members, Co-workers, At Orthodox Forums, Universalist You-Tube Video clips or even at our BT Forum, it's an exercise in futility because it doesn't do God
any good, the person you debate with any good and I know it doesn't do me any good. It took me many years
to finally practice this principle, to remain silent.
Kind Regards, Samson.