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Dennis Vogel

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« on: March 20, 2006, 04:03:55 PM »

> L.Ray
> Simply put you are a rebel against the Church. Something akin to a
> Christian gypsy. you cannot consistly fellowship anywhere because you
> cannot accept authority. You struggle with anger and submisson to
> authority. You bounce around from fellowship to fellowship without any
> accountablity.
> L.Ray, You need a Christian mentor, and need not be instructing
> anyone. You are a case of the blind leading the blind. I am willing to
> help you, if your interested.
> To God Be The Glory
> Pastor Kevin

Dear Kevin:

Do you feel better now?  But what are the facts:

[1]  Did you prove me wrong by showing that contrary to what I showed you, that Abraham really DID have a personal "increase" as a result of these wars?  NO!

[2]  Did you show me where Abraham really DID take personal possession of these spoils?  NO!

[3]  Did you show me where Abraham really DID tithe before & after spoiling the kings?  NO!

[4]  Did you show me where "tithing" really DID have something to do with fellowship?  NO!

[5]  Did you show me in the N.T. where "voluntary giving" really DID mean "tithing money?"  NO!

[6]  Did you show me in the N.T. where the widow really DID "tithe money to the Church?"  NO!

[7]  Did you show me from the N.T. that fellowshipping with Believers of like mind really IS unscriptural, and that following Paul's example makes one a "Christian Gypsy?"  NO!

You are a spiritual coward, Kevin. You are all talk. You cannot and will not answer the seven truths I presented to you with regards to "tithing."  You KNOW that your stance on "The Christian Tithing Hoax" has not one single Scripture to back it. And you want to be my mentor?  You could not truthfully mentor a Sunday School Class of little children. Yet it is you who suggest that I who struggles with anger and authority. No, YOU, Kevin are the angry one; YOU are the one who refuses the authority of God's word; it is YOU who despise the word of God while trying to demean my ministry.

"Wherefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, Because you DESPISE this word, and trust in OPPRESSION [Heb:  'injury, fraud, destress, unjust gain--a thing gotten deceitfully']..." (Isa. 30:12).

And how is one giant and blasphemous way in which the Christian clergy trusts not in God for their sustenance, but rather in "injury, fraud, destress, unjust gain, gotten deceitfully?"  Need some help on this one, Kevin?  Nothing comes to mind for you?  Try this:

"WOE unto you, scribes and pharisees, [Christian clergymen] for you DEVOUR WIDOWS' HOUSES...." (Matt. 23:14).  

And just how have the Christian clergy devoured widows' houses while OMITTING the weightier matters of the law?  Try the "Christian TITHING LAW" on for size. I have a drawer full of emails and letters from widows, sick and infirmed, and elderly, and from the family memebers, telling me of the horror stories regarding their church's tithing laws. Some can't afford food after "tithing."  Some can't afford medicine after "tithing." Some can't afford to pay their heart bill after "titihing."  One woman felt so guilty from all the unscriptural and evil haranguing by her pastor over the consequences of not tithing and being CURSED WITH A CURSE from Almighty God pluss the prospects of eternal torture in hell fire hanging over her, if she did not TITHE MORE.  All she had left where her Food Stamps. So she tithed her Food Stamps (put them in an envelop with her name and address on it), and the pastor SPENT THEM!

And you, Kevin, want to me my mentor?  Until you BITTERLY repent, Kevin, of this damnable heresy, here is what Jesus thinks of you and what your future holds:


THEY BIND HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be born, and lay them on men's shoulders; but will not move them with ONE OF THEIR FINGERS

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES you DEVOUR WIDOW'S HOUSES you shall receive the greater damnation.

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES

WOE unto you, ye BLIND GUIDES



WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You have omitted JUDGMENT, MERCY, and FAITH

You BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.



WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! you are the children of them which KILLED the prophets. FILL YOU UP then the measure of your fathers.

You SERPENTS, you GENERATION OF SNAKES you KILL AND CRUCIFY you SCOURGE in your synagogues Behold your house is left unto you DESOLATE"!!


> > Dear pastor Kevin:
> >
> > You have not even a clue as to what you are talking about. You are making it
> > up as you go. I will make a few COMMENTS in your email............

> > Tithing means to give the tenth of your increase. Please read Heb 7:1-10.
> > Abraham gave a tenth of the plunder to Melchizedek.

> > COMMENT: Abraham did NOT tithe "a tent of his increase." Abraham HAD NO
> > INCREASE from these wars with the kings. Abraham DENOUNCED ALL of these
> > spoils of war. Please read Genesis 14.

> > I am sure you'll find that "the plunder" did not only include animals and
> > farm products.

> > COMMENT: It matters not, as Abraham never took PERSONAL possession of any of
> > it.

> > Abraham was not under the Mosaic Law, there was yet no Isreal, and no
> > temple, and he gave the tenth of the plunder to a non-levitcal priest.
> > Showing that a tenth of ones increase could be used as a role of thumb for
> > giving in a non-levitcal situation.

> > COMMENT: You totally falsefy the Scriptures. Abraham NEVER tithing ANYTHING
> > of his own, either BEFORE or AFTER these wars with the kings. There was no
> > "rule of thumb:" you are making that up.
> >
> > The fellowship must be maintained by the believers, which means some
> > monetary support is necessary. If one is looking for a rule of thumb for
> > that support a tenth of ones increase is a good gauge.

> > COMMENT: Maintaining means for fellowsh it has nothing to do with tithing.
> > I "maintain" a place for my wife and family to live and fellowship, but I
> > guarantee you that I do not do it by TITHING.

> > Tithing is basically giving to the Church and Christian giving is
> > scriptural, whether it's a tenth a fifth or a twentieth,

> > COMMENT: Tithing basically has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the Chruch or
> > Christians. "Giving" is not "tithing," so stop corrupting what the
> > Scriptures say. Tithing is folloiwng a LAW of Moses which has nothing
> > whatsoever to do with "voluntary" contributions.

> > Christians are encouraged to give to the Church to support the fellowship.
> > Luke 21:1-4, Heb 10:25.

> > COMMENT: You are a "pastor" and you do not know that there was absolutely
> > NOTHING "Christian" about the Temple at Jerusalem? Jesus did not say: "I
> > will build My church by extending the religious system of the Temple." The
> > Chruch of Jesus Christ has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Jew's
> > Religion. The widow was not contributing to Christ's Church for the purpose
> > of providing a place for Christian to worship! How can you corrupt the
> > Scriptures this way, pastor?

> > And what, pray tell, does Christian believers assembling themselves together
> > have to do with PAYING TEN PERCENT OF THEIR SALARIES TO SOME MINISTRY? I am a Believer, and I assemble with other Believers all the time, yet not one
> > of us pays ten percent of our salaries to some unscriptural
> > institutionalized church or denomination of men. Where do you see "tithing"
> > in any of these verses you reference? You are MAKING IT UP, pastor.
> >
> > L.Ray where do you fellowship?
> >
> > COMMENT: I fellowship whereever there are Believers of like mind to
> > fellowship with--in my home, in their homes, in various cities, states,
> > halls, etc.
> >
> > It is unscriptural to teach Christians to tithe money, and it is a SIN to
> > teach Christians to tithe a tenth of their annual salaries to other men.
> > And if not bitterly repented of, this sin will be severly judged in the Lake
> > of Fire.
> > Ray
> >
> > In Gods Glory,
> > Pastor Kevin
> >
> >
> > > > L.Ray,
> > > > I like some of what you wrote about tithing, in Christ I too so
> > no need to guilt trip people about tithing. At our Church we use tithing as
> > a rule of thumb or a suggested guide to deciding how much to give. No one
> > will be condemned for not tithing. However if you form a fellowship for the
> > purpose of enriching one another in Christ, a failure to give regularly
> > might be a heart condition problem. The whole point of giving is to support
> > the fellowship--as the fellowship seeks and saves the lost. We are all
> > commanded to Go, Make disciples, Baptize, and teach them to obey. It is VERY
> > difficult for a full time working disciple to complete this commission
> > without the use the Christian community.
> > > >
> > > > This is why the fellowship is important, to seek and save the lost
> > and nurture each other and the weak. It is difficult to accomplish this
> > without some kind of administrated christian community. All gifts where
> > given to edify the Church, no fellowship, no edification. How can we gather
> > without resources? Should we send out people empty handed? Yes we are all
> > men of God, But some are called to plant some to water. This may not be
> > accomplished by just ANY 2 disciples fellowshipping. As you bear fruit you
> > will need to create a community for the fruit to last. Jesus set the example
> > in this by choosing 12 as his first fruits. For you to serve as Jesus did on
> > earth you will need a money bag, and yes, people are free to give what is on
> > their heart
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To God Be The Glory,
> > > > Pastor William Kevin ...

> > > >
> > > > Dear William:
> > > > You don't know what "tithing" is. Christians don't tithe--it is
> >  impossible. Tithing was only for Israel, by the farmers and herders, to the
> > poor and the priests of Levi, when there was a tabernacle and later a
> > temple. Nother else is tithing. "Christian tithing," is a "Christian hoax."
> > You can call a cat, a dog. But that does not make a cat, a dog. Besides, even
> > in ancient Israel, money was never a tithable commodity. You are comparing
> > apples and moon rocks. It's like introducing a new doctrine for Christians
> > called "Christian animal sacrificing." It's just heresy. There is
> > nothing.....ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Scriptural about "Christian tithing."
> > > > Ray


This will be my last email to you, unless your seeking help with your
issues. The fact is Abraham paid a tenth of the plunder, this happen
Pryor to the Levitical Priesthood. It was HIS increase, he chose not
to take his portion. You need to re-read the account.

I happen to work, the tithe does not support me. But it does support
the Church facilities.

Anyone who loves the body does whatever they have to, to keep it
healthy. After all She is Christ's bride to be.

(1 Cor 9:1-27)

You need help L.Ray. It is hard to love the Christ without loving His
fiance'. The one who is radiant in his eyes. You need to show that
love by your deeds, done in reverent submission. I bet you have a lot
of problems with that, And this is where the real problem is, not in
this tithing issue.

As a loving disciple you should give and a tenth has been consistantly
used in the Holy Scriptures as an amount that God approves of, Thus
the term I used "Rule of Thumb".

To God Be The Glory,
Pastor Kevin
« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 11:25:02 AM by Kat »


  • Guest
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2006, 12:28:50 AM »

oh....heaven forbid if kevin should have to sustain his own income.

pators, deacons, revends....ect.  would lobby congress to no end if their coffers should stop filing up, by leeching off the intimidation and damnations they place upon their congregations.



  • Guest
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2006, 01:20:50 AM »

Just letting you all know this isnt the same Kevin thats on this forum. I had kinda the same thing happen to me today. I went to look at cars today and me and the salesperson got on the subject of God. He asked where I went to church and I told him my story and that we have church in our home. He informed me that he was pentacostal I told him I just about done them all[denominations]. He told me I needed someone to watch over my soul, him meaning thier pastor. I told him that I have somebody looking out for me. I started to share some truthes with him and he just shook his head in disbelief. I didnt say much I just had a wierd feeling talking to him. Then I thought that maybe we arent suppose to share some things. That maybe I should just quote parables to him from the word of course. That is what our Lord done.  So maybe we should share the milk of the word with someone like this and not the meat of the word. I felt like he was trmpling the riches of God you know the truthes.
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