Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  


Need Account Help?  Email   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Is Jesus God . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy March 2011  (Read 15816 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


  • Guest

Is Jesus God Bible study 3/13/2011
Audio links


                                           ARE YOU AFRAID OF GOD?

I gave a title to today’s study ‘Are You Afraid of God?’ Is God the Father a stern cruel God? You know, men have always been afraid of God, I mean, humanity. If you look at all the different cultures through history, men have been afraid of God. That’s why they would kill their fellow man, cut their hearts out and sacrifice them to God, because they were afraid of Him, really afraid of Him. I mean when you take a beautiful young child, young man or young woman and cut their heart out, there has got to be a pretty powerful reason for that. That’s a lot of fear of God.

I think even Christians and believers, sometimes fear God more than they want to admit. I mean, they know He’s so awesome and powerful, but after all hasn’t He done pretty horrendous things? Didn’t He wipeout a good bit of humanity with the flood back in Noah’s time? Didn’t He wipeout the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plains with fire and brimstone?

Then we read in the law that we are to be perfect. Wow, we have this awesome God who demands a lot and then He says be ye perfect. Jesus Christ parroted that by saying;

Mat 5:48  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So mankind has been afraid of God. Everything in our society reflects something about the past and humanity’s understanding of who or what God is.

We have the days of the week;
Saturday - the planet Saturn
Sunday - the day of the sun
Monday - the day of the moon
Thursday - the god Thor, the god of thunder.

You know people are afraid of thunder and lightening. Now I’m not I like it, to me thunder is like God’s kettle drums. I like it, but a lot of people are afraid of it and they run inside. That’s alright, but I like thunder, I like when it rattles the ground, I just like that.

But people are afraid of God. They don’t know who or what He is. After all aren’t we told He’s invisible and nobody has ever seen Him? It’s kind of an awesome thing. I got an email about 6 - 7:00 this morning and I want to read this.

I agree with you about the hell issue. My question is, what about outer darkness?

I believe that if people are going to fear the afterlife in any capacity they would have to fear the One that can send them there. Any thought’s on this subject of outer darkness?

End email--

Yeah I have a couple thoughts on outer darkness.

Milky Way Galaxy

There it is. Well that’s outer light, but on either side there is outer darkness. But this is really awesome. This is the Milky Way Galaxy the best that they can understand it from our perspective. Right here (near bottom on right side) is a little tiny dot of light which represents our sun and solar system, a little invisible dot.

This of course is the Milky Way, but somebody MADE that. If you say, ’God made that,’ well what kind of a Creature is that? That is pretty awesome.

If you start out in a spaceship over here (on far left side of the galaxy), and you travel at 186,000 miles a second, to get from here (far left side) to over here (far right side) would take 125,000 years. Yet if you back up in space this whole Milky Way just becomes another little dot. Another one of these little dots out there that you can hardly see. This whole galaxy, that it would take 125,000 years traveling at 600 million miles an hour to get from here to here (one side to the other). Somebody made that!

Now what gets me, is the same Creature that made that, made this.

How can that be? How do you equate that… galaxies 100,000 light years across… and there are not thousands of them or millions, there are billions! It’s awesome! If this (picture of galaxy) is the end product, maybe not the end product, but the product of a great creator God. So is this (picture of kitties)!

What does this (galaxy) have in common with that (kitties)? What was He thinking, what is He thinking? Who is this God? I mean really, who is He? What do you know about Him?

I can see where people might be afraid of Him. I’m not afraid of Him anymore. I just feel, what’s the use, why be afraid of Him? He is what He is, I am what I am. I’m not going to be afraid of Him. I respect Him, I’m awe struck, but I’m not afraid, not ‘afraid.’

But what is in the mind of a individual that makes this (galaxy) and makes this (kitties)? Or my little puppy, did you see Caesar? He’s like one of the cutest puppies ever born, at least I think so, I love that dog.

So anyway how do we understand this God? What is He all about? Now we know that God is likened to a Father, but even that doesn’t seem to help everybody feel better about Him, because not everybody had a good relationship with there father. Even if they had a good relationship with their father that still doesn’t mean they understand the awesomeness of this creator God who likens Himself to a Father.

So we know more about Jesus Christ than we know about God the Father. Therefore people feel more at easy with Christ. They think He is more loving, giving, forgiving than His Father. Is that justified? Gordon is shaking his head no, that is not justified. But unfortunately it’s true.
God is a mystery and I think that is part of the reason that people fear Him, they don’t know Him. How can you love somebody or trust somebody or pray to them or share your intimate thoughts and feelings, when you don’t know them? Has anybody had a conversation with God? Does anybody know of one with God the Father? Can anybody tell me, in the Bible, where anybody had a conversation with God the Father?

[Comment: Christ did.] Yeah, it says He did. But nobody else. I mean I can’t find it.

Now we have to understand that it talks about God, it talks about the Lord and it talks about the Father. Are they all one in the same? Well some say yes, some say no.

I got another email from a concerned reader. This one I got a couple weeks ago, which actually helped prompt this study. She says;

I rejoice at having been lead to a better understanding of God’s purpose and understanding that all will be saved. Lately I’ve contemplated how He has worked through long eons of time and also how He seems to work through the natural laws He has put in place.

It does seem like I had always thought that one day our Lord will return for us and our struggles will be over. Our life will be one of knowing Him of peace and happiness. It seems like He makes us struggle for knowledge and I know in this life I can not learn enough about Him. It just seems like, if this is His way, then when we are resurrected we will still have to struggle to learn His ways. This struggling is hard and full of pain and sorrow.

I guess what I am saying is, thinking about all these things is making Him seem so remote to me. Maybe I am wrong to want a warm fizzy feeling when I think about our heavenly Father. Is this too one of the idols of Christendom? The problem is the more I think on Him and His nature and His ways, the more awesome He is, but also the further away He seems.

End email--

Can any of you identify with any of those feelings? Or have you ever in the past? God is fully aware of this and surely He must have made a way out of this dilemma, since He is fully aware of it. As a matter of fact, He has. Jesus is the revealer of this mysterious Father. Jesus said;

Matt 11:27  All things are delivered unto Me of My Father: and no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and He to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

So He has to be revealed or apparently there is no other way you are to come to a real knowledge about Him. Jesus is the only way that we can know or understand the Father, we just read it. That is what it said, right?

John 14:6  Jesus said unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes unto the Father, but by Me.

Jesus is the only mediator…

1Tim 2:5  For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus;

Why? Why is there an mediator in the first place? Why does God need a mediator?

[Comment: He has not been seen or heard.] But why? Why hasn’t He been seen or heard? Why does He have to have a mediator?

I mean what if we never saw president Obama, he always sent an representative, one of his cabinet members. You would say, ‘where is the president? Oh he’s in the back, he’s in the chambers someplace.’ And you never got to see him or hear him.

Jesus said that He knows His Father very well and that His Father knows Him.

John 10:15  As the Father knows Me, even so know I the Father:

So He knows the Father very well. If He knows the Father as well as the Father knows Him, then He knows Him pretty well, right? Completely and totally.

John 12:49  For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.


No one has ever seen or heard the Father. The Lord told Moses that he couldn’t see His face and live.

Exo 33:20  And He (the Lord) said, you can not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live.

This is Yahweh Jehovah and He was dead serious when He said this. He said you can’t look at Me, it will kill you! Why is that? Why would it kill you? I don’t know, but there are a few hints. Something has to do with light and we were talking about outer darkness and light. If it weren’t for light the whole universe would be outer darkness and there would be nothing but darkness, you see? There are different Scriptures that say God is light, dwells in light.

1Tim 6:16  Who only hath immortality, dwelling in light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

So the Lord Yahweh, not the Father, it doesn’t say the Father, it says “ the Lord” said he could see His back parts.

Exo 33:23  And I will take away Mine hand, and you shall see My back parts: but  My face shall not be seen.

Just His back parts, not His face, not His glory.

But just so that we wouldn’t have just as much confidence in the Scriptures as we could, my King James has a marginal reference that sends us to Genesis 32:30.

Gen 32:30  And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

How about that? God told Moses he could not see His face and live. But Jacob said, I saw Him face to face and I‘m still here to tell about it.

John 5:37  And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.

Trust me there is more to this problem than meets the eye, I’m working on it. I have another paper, I have about 50 pages of notes, but it ain’t done yet. God willing some day it will get done. It’s a pretty deep subject.

So Moses was told that he couldn’t see His face and live and Jacob said I saw His face and I lived. What’s going on here?

Now one theologian says, in reference to Christ saying the Father Himself said, ye have not seen or heard the Father, he said ‘well that’s talking about those that Christ was talking to at that particular time. Ye - you people out there listening to Me, you have never seen the Father and not that no one ever has.’ But that’s not true, because like most theologians, he doesn’t know what he is talking about. Over in John 1...

John 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time…

“No man has seen God,” not just those sitting in front of Him, “NO MAN has seen God AT ANY TIME.” Now we’ve pretty much nailed it, right? Not just those that I was talking to the other day, “but no man at any time…”

v. 18 …the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.

So “no man at any time,” okay? No man has seen Him at any time.

Now when Jesus says “God,” He means the Father. When He said “no man has seen God,” He means God the Father.
As in it was God the Father that gave Christ works to do…
It was God the Father that sent Jesus…
It was God the Father which you have neither heard His voice…
It was God the Father that no man hath seen at any time….

So understand He is speaking about the Father.


Now there are numerous occasions where it appears like men were talking to God the Father. Because if it doesn’t distinguish between an angel of the Lord or Jesus Christ in the New Testament or whatever, then people just assume whoever is God or Lord or whatever, then it’s God the Father.

Gen 3:8  And they heard the voice of the Lord God…

That’s Yehovah Elohim, Yahweh Elohim they heard walking in the garden.

Gen 3:9  And the Lord God called unto Adam, and SAID…
He is speaking, He’s saying something;

v. 9  …Where art you?

Gen 3:10  And he SAID, I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid…

So Adam ‘said’ and God ‘said’ it’s the same ‘said,’ same word. What’s going on? 

Gen 3:22  And the Lord God SAID, Behold, the man is become as one of US…

Where did that come from? “The Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US.” I thought God was only one?

Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He SAID…

This is the great I AM. “And He said,” He is speaking with a voice. “He said,” but nobody had ever heard Him said… somebody is speaking here, “And God SAID unto Moses.”

Gen 17:1  And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord APPEARDED to Abram…

Not only had He ‘said,’ He “appeared.” No one has ever seen Him? But He ‘appeared’ to Abraham.

Gen 17:1 …and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before Me, and be you perfect.

So the Lord “appeared to Abraham” and He “said.” So both of them are mentioned here… Christ said that can’t happen with the Father.

John 5:37  And the Father Himself… ye have neither… seen His shape.

So since it is not possible to see the face of God and live, do we have a contradiction here? Anybody got this thing figured out. Well hopefully we don’t have a contradiction. I can settle some of it here today.

How can all these things be possible and yet not contradict? Well let’s notice first of all, Moses didn’t say ‘God can I see YOU,’ that was not his request. His specific request was,

Exo 33:18  And he (Moses) said, I beseech Thee, show me Thy GLORY.

He didn’t ask to see God, he said I want to see your “glory,” your power, your majesty, your light, your brilliance, your awesomeness.

So for sure this can’t be God the Father here, because He’s going to show him something, even if it’s not His glory. It says “you have never seen His shape,” I guess His “back parts” would have to be some kind of a shape to it. Apparently though what this is saying is, it’s possible to see God with some restrictions. Like He said you go over there in the rock and there is a little fisher in the rock and I’m going to hold My hand as I walk by and you will see My back parts. But you can‘t see My face, you can‘t see My glory.

But who was it? Who was this being? Well it says it was the Lord and the Lord said, “I AM THAT I AM.” We also know that it uses the phrase “the Lord God,” which is Yahweh Elohim. So then there is not too many more Gods and Elohims and Lords left. You have Adonai translated Lord.

So who is the Lord God, if it‘s not the Father? Because the whole lesson here is we want to find out why people are afraid of God the Father and should we be and who is He and what is He like.

The words Lord and God are found in the Old Testament, over 10,000 times. They seldom ever make any kind of personal reference to God the Father, if at all.

How could Philip, who said to Jesus, ‘you keep talking about the Father, just show Him to us and that will take care of the thing.’

John 14:8  Philip said unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffices us.

How could he ask Christ to show him the Father… like who is the Father? They didn’t know who this is? If he had over 10,000 references to God the Father in all the Hebrew Scriptures in every Synagogue in Judah… these Apostles read the Scriptures. How is it that he didn’t know who Christ is talking about? Christ is talking about God the Father and they said ‘who is that?’ Yet they had the Scriptures that talked about God, the Father… no, maybe not God the Father.

Maybe that‘s the whole thing, it doesn‘t talk about God the Father. But if this Lord God is not God the Father, then who? Well I’m going to save that for another paper. I can’t get to that today. Today we want to concentrate more on the relationship between Jesus Christ and the Father.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 12:28:12 PM by Kat »


  • Guest
Re: Is Jesus God . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy March 2011 - part 1
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 12:00:34 AM »

                                     DOES GOD TALK TO HIMSELF?

The first time that the word God appears in the Scripture, is the Hebrew word Elohim. It’s a plural word, it’s a plural of the word El, the EloHIM makes it plural. It answers somewhat, but certainly not exactly to our old English word God in the singular, just God.

In Genesis 1:26 we read Elohim, which is a plural, here Elohim is speaking. In Genesis 1:1 it just says, “in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,” but here in Genesis 1;

Gen 1:26  And God (Elohim) SAID (He‘s speaking), Let US make man in OUR image…

Gen 3:22  …Behold, the man is become as one of US…

Grammatically that is correct the “Us” and the “Our” is in the Hebrew. They didn’t just add that, it’s in there, okay.

Doesn’t the Bible tell us that God is one being, one individual, one person? How can one person say “let Us” and “Our?” How is that possible? Well no, it actually doesn’t say that anywhere in the Bible, that is an assumption. But again it is not the scope of this paper to go into all of that.

But in Deuteronomy 6 we read what is called the Shema, which states;

Deu 6:4  Hear, O Israel: The Lord (Yahweh) (is) our God…

It can read, “The Lord is our God.”

v. 4 … is one (echad, which means united) Lord:

So the Lord God is one Lord.

I’m presently reading a book called ‘Christ Was No Trinitarian,’ a big thick book. The author, no less than, 50-100 times in that book says that God is one individual person, God is a person… God is one person… God a person… over and over and over. I counted 50-100 times and I haven’t finished the book.

Now we just read it, does anybody see in there, Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one person? I don’t see that. It’s one Lord, one Yahweh. So it doesn’t say one person. Did Jesus say, I and My Father are one person? No.

Did God tell Adam, therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one person? (Gen 2:24) No.

Did Jesus Christ say, I and My Father are one person? (John 10:30) No.

But here is what the Bible does say. In Genesis 11, this is the people speaking.

Gen 11:4  And they said, Go to, let US build US a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let US make US a name…

Everybody knows what that means, “us,” right? There is a whole bunch of people saying that, “let us.” Everyone understood the pronoun ‘us’ and what it stands for.

Gen 11:6  And the Lord said, Behold, the PEOPLE (multiple people, hundreds of thousands of people) is ONE…

Singular, all these people, “is one,” Hebrew ‘echad,’ meaning unified or one.

v. 6 …and they have all one language.

The next Lord, which is translated from Yahweh, this is not God Elohim. Now pay strict attention here. I thought if anybody has ever caught this, I’ve never heard of anybody catch this.

Gen 11:6  And the LORD (Yahweh, not Elohim) said…
v. 7   Go to, let US…

Now we have Yahweh saying “let Us.” So what is going on?

I’ll just say here the fact that God in the Old Testament most often uses the singular pronoun, He or Me or Mine, does not negate the fact that at other places it does use the plural.

Yet the author of this book I’m reading says, ‘but the majority rules. It says more times singular, so therefore we throw out…’ No we don’t throw out anything in the Bible. No we don’t. Seems to me Jesus had something to say about throwing out things. We don’t throw these plural pronouns out.  Yahweh said “let Us,” it should be there.


How do we know all these references are not speaking about God the Father though? How do we know that? Because Jesus Christ said, nobody had ever seen or heard Him. So either that statement is true or it’s not.

Now I know some theologians argue that where He said that, there was other ways, He was just talking… no, we just blew that out of the sky. It isn’t that this is just said in one place, this is mentioned at numerous times.

I’m not suggesting that there are two Gods, I’m saying that the one God said, “let Us,” that's all that I am saying. I’m not saying that there is more than one God. We have all kinds of examples of how that is possible.

I think we should do away or should have done away… well it’s pretty hard to do it now... but we should have never got in the habit of translating in English Yahweh and Elohim and Adonia, we should have never translated it God. God is a pagan heathen title. Why should we call the God of creation after some pagan title? Why should we? After all we know He’s not a pagan god, yet we’re strapped with the idea that the word Elohim is translated the true God and the god of the pagans. God of creation that was Elohim and Mohoc of the Canaanites that was elohim too.

I would have made a distinction. I would have translated it something like this, since we know what God is from other Scriptures and so on. I would have translated it something like this, in the beginning the Almighty Family created the heavens and the earth. What’s wrong with that? To me that’s what God is. Takes care of the ‘one,’ family, takes care of the plural, family has more than one unit.

Or we could say, the Almighty Divine Family, saying let Us make man in Our image. You could throw the word divine or divinity in there, that okay that’s a good word. It takes care of the plurality of the word Elohim. We could call Him the Almighty Divine Family. What’s wrong with that?

To me the pagan title god or in Germany gott, it doesn’t do justice to the God of creation.  

We are familiar with lots of words anyway that are used with a singular pronouns and so on, but consist of multiple units. We speak of the United States of America, United States, plural. One nation under God or it used to be one nation, I don’t know what it is now. One nation, united, states plural. One nation, okay. This isn’t rocket science, it’s not hard to understand.

You can have an orchestra, one orchestra, 150 members. It doesn’t mean since you have more than one you have more than one orchestras? The accusation is, ‘if there is more than one talking then you are saying there is more than one God.’ No I’m not and neither is the Scripture saying that.

So Jesus Christ has come to reveal His Father, which apparently we don’t know much about. Because we don’t read about any conversations with Him to learn about His personality and so on.

                                         WHO WAS JESUS CHRIST

Now think about this, there is basically, apart from what some people would say that Christ never existed in the first place, but basically we have these teaching;

1) Jesus Christ is the second person of a triune God of this trinity God head. He’s the second person. He’s not the first or the third, but He’s the second. That He existed from all eternity with the Father.

2) We have this, and there is any number of them, and that is including the Jehovah Witnesses, that Jesus Christ was just a man. Okay, just a man.

Sir Anthony Buzzard, says in his book on the trinity, that Jesus Christ came into existence for the first time when He was born to Mary. He is not some other God, He’s not some deity, He didn’t exist from all eternity with the Father. He was born, a baby boy and grew up to be a man and that’s what He was, a man.

3) There are a few of us that believe that Jesus Christ was created by His Father. Begotten, yes, and created.

If Jesus Christ were this so called second person of the triune God, why would His Father have to tell Him or show Him anything? I mean He is God, right? What does the Father know that He doesn’t pray tell, if He was there with God from all eternity? He wouldn’t have to tell Him or show Him anything, I mean that is a slap in the face.

Another little problem is, if Jesus Christ is God, very God, God of God they say, eternal, from eternity. How could He die? God can’t die!

On the other hand if He were just a human being and He didn’t come from anywhere, except His mother’s womb. Then someplace between coming out of His mother’s womb and going out and spreading the gospel, He had to find out who He was. Who told Him? When was He told? He couldn’t have very well been told when He was 12 years old.

At the Passover time, when Jesus was 12 years old they went up to Jerusalem and they were there for the feast. And it came to pass after they left they looked around in their company and Jesus wasn’t there. So they went back to Jerusalem, apparently they were gone a whole day and then they had to come back another whole day and then they walked around Jerusalem a whole day. They went to all of the places that they thought He might be and finally they found Him at the temple.

Luke 2:48  And when they saw Him, they were amazed: and His mother said unto Him, Son, why have You thus dealt with us? behold, Your father and I have sought You sorrowing.

By the way that word “sorrowing” is the identical Greek word used in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man said I am being “tormented,” it’s the same word. So I don’t think Mary was being burnt with fire.

v. 49  And He said unto them, How is it that you sought Me? Wist you not…

“Wist” we don’t use that word anymore. Wist you not that we should be soon eating lunch.  

v. 49 …Don’t you know that I must be about My Father's business?
v. 50  And they understood not…

They didn’t know who He was, Jesus is 12 years old and His own parents didn’t know who He was. Remember Simon wanting to see the newborn baby, before he died, he knew who He was. The shepherds they were taught who He was. He’s dealing with those of the law here in the temple and there was the angel of the Lord and the heavenly host.

I mean all these people dealt with Jesus and they didn’t know, His own parents didn’t know who He was. He was just a little boy that got left behind and they had to go back and get Him. He said “don’t you know that I must be about My Father's business?”

So at 12 years old He wasn’t told, He already knew who He was! Not only did He know that His Father had business for Him to do, He was already doing it! He said I’m already about it, I‘m already doing it, at 12 years old. Well when did He know who He was?

This is just for fun. Let’s assume that He did not have any recollection that He came from somewhere from God and that He was now growing up as a boy to become a man, the Savior of the world. He had no such recollection that this is what He was doing here. He was just a little boy. So imagine Mary, let’s say He is 5 years old, setting down little 5 year old Jesus on her knee one day. So she says to Him;

Mary - Son I have something very important to tell You. It time you know that Joseph, my husband, is not your father (To which Jesus is utterly shocked).

Little Jesus replies - I don’t understand. What do you mean daddy isn’t my Father? Who is my father?

Mary - God is your Father.

Jesus - God!? How can God be my Father, you told me that God was up in heaven.

Mary - Yes that’s true son, but He’s nonetheless your Father.

Jesus - Does that mean you’re not My mother?

Mary - No son, I’m still your mother.

Jesus - Is daddy and God your husband? I thought daddy is your husband.

Mary - Yes Joseph is my husband, but God is your Father. Joseph is the father to your bothers and sisters, but he’s not your father.

Jesus - But I want daddy to be my daddy.

Mary - Well he is kind of your daddy, it’s just that you were actually begotten by God in heaven.

Jesus - I got what? What did I get?

Mary - No Son, begot means… well I will explain it to you later.

Jesus - Mother does dad know about all this stuff.

I don’t mean to be sacrilegious, but I can’t buy that scenario. I just don’t believe that happened and something like that would have had to happen, if He was just a little Jewish boy growing up to be the Messiah and didn‘t know it. I mean who would want to spring something like that on a little boy? That’s pretty traumatizing.

                                     HAS JESUS SEEN THE FATHER

Since no man at any time has seen or heard the Father, what about Jesus? Jesus said;

John 6:46  Not that any man hath seen the Father, save (except) He (Jesus) which is of (from) God, He hath seen the Father.

Then why can’t we? Well we read it before, because we are mortal. When Jesus was with the Father He obviously was not mortal. Remember He lowered Himself, He emptied Himself,
He was “made.” It doesn’t say He was born a little lower than the angels, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels” (Heb 2:9). He was made. Contrary to so many people that I’m studying.

So the Father has not been seen by any one except the One who is “from God.” Concordant reads this way.

John 6:46 Not that the Father has been seen by anyone, except by the One who is from God. This One has seen the Father. (CLV)

 John 1:18  No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the
bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Now that is a profound statement., “He has declared Him.”

John 1:18  …He, hath interpreted Him.

Revised Standard Version;
John 1:18   …He has made Him known.

John 1:18  …He unfolds Him.

So Jesus knows a great deal about the Father and He’s going to tell us. He certainly knew a whole lot more about God then any 12 year old little Jewish boy would have known, had that been His first experience with life on this earth.

John 5:19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
v. 20  For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that Himself does…

Again how could you show… at 12 years old He’s already about His Father’s business, so He had to know what His Father’s business was. How would you show a 12 year old boy all that the great creator God of the universe does? I don’t think so.

On the other hand if He’s to second person of the God head, why does He need to be shown anything? You see the ridiculous contradictions in these teachings. Well I’m hoping I’m going to straighten it out, although there are some problems with it. But if God wants me to understand it, I’ll understand it.

You know I have told people so many times, people write me an email and they want me to explain the subject, that maybe no less than 2 or 300,000 theologians have been wrestling with for 2,000 years. And they want me to answer it in a email, before my next sip of coffee. Which I think is kind of funny, but that’s alright.

So for Him to have been shown all these things about His Father in heaven, I’d think He had to be there. He was with His Father, there was a time He was with His Father.

End of audio 1

So it appears evident that Jesus Christ was with His Father to know all of these many things. He says “all things” were given unto Him of His Father and showed Him all things.

John 13:3  Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands…

John 5:20  For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that Himself does…

 Now understand when He says “all things” it doesn’t mean necessarily that there isn’t nothing that Christ Himself does not know about the Father or something He did. I mean I don’t know that. If they were together for billions of years it would be hard for me to figure out what He didn’t know.

It’s interesting that Jesus Christ said that not only did the Father show Him all that He has done and everything that He will do as the Savior of mankind and so on. But all things that are the Father’s He said are Mine, He gave Me everything.

Which is again… I love the Jews and I know that they are very smart people and all that, but I do not believe a 30 year old Jewish man knows everything about the creator and the universe. I just find that hard to believe.

Nor do I believe that because God kept Him from sinning a few years, that He gave Him the universe. That’s His reward, You get the universe, You have a name above every name for all eternity and so on. He just lived a short life. Not that He didn’t die a horrendous death and all that, but if He’s still was JUST a man, He didn’t warrant all that.

But if Jesus Christ is our very Creator, then it takes on a whole deeper meaning. That He would die for His own creation! That’s the way I see it anymore. I don’t see Christ dying because we sinned. I mean I know it says He died for our sins, but I don’t see that as the main or the only purpose for His dying, that He had to die because we sinned, okay.

HE DIED TO SHOW US THAT HE LOVES US! How else could He show us? What more profound way could He show us that, than if He would be willing to die for His own creation.

John 15:13  Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.


So Jesus Christ as a little boy didn’t go to heaven… is there any way we can find out was He ever in heaven? Is there a Scripture anywhere that says… there’s nothing in the Bible that says between, let’s say, age of 12 and 30 before His ministry actually started, that He went to heaven sometime or that He took a Sabbatical. But do we have a Scripture that says that He did go to heaven? [Comment: we have one that says He came from heaven.] Yeah there are several, I came down from heaven. Do we have one that says He went to heaven? [Comment: Don’t John 3:13 say that?] [Comment: After His death.] After His death He went to heaven, yes.

John 6:38  For I came down from heaven

Who said John 3:13? Does that say He went to heaven? [Comment: He was the only one that went to Heaven that came down from heaven.] Okay I have it right here.

John 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
v. 13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Well “which is in heaven” Tischendorf says that is not in any original manuscripts. Scratch which is in heaven, it should end with Son of man, period.

But we always look at that Scripture to prove that nobody went to heaven. They say, ‘you die and go to heaven.’ Christ said nobody went to heaven. ‘Yeah, Abraham was in heaven.’ No he wasn’t, Christ said no man has ascended into heaven.

This one people read right over it, but this one also says, “He that came down from heaven.” He that came down from heaven, what? He’s the same One that went up. Let’s read it.

John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, BUT HE (what?)… that came down from heaven,

He that came down He ascended up to heaven. He was not dead yet, this was BEFORE the resurrection! This was in His ministry. So here is a Scripture that says , He went to heaven before He died or His resurrection. He came down from heaven and He said the same one that came down, that’s the One that ascended up! Most people read over that, but it is there, it does say it.

                                          BEGOTTEN - REGENERATE

I want to talk a little bit about begotten, so these are some things that you can be thinking about as I am preparing some of my other lessons. Again Mr. Buzzard uses this as a major tool, the word begotten, to show that Jesus Christ came into existence when He was born of Mary.

Of course I contend, how would He know hardly anything about God, not that He couldn’t study the Scriptures and so on. But still the Scriptures don’t tell you everything, I mean here we have E-Sword and everything and we can’t find a single statement. Where did Christ find statements about God that said here’s what I am, here’s what I did? I mean if we can’t find it with E-Sword I don’t think by Him going through the Scrolls for hundreds of hours that He found anything either, because it’s not there. So if He wasn’t in heaven, where did He learn these things?

But yet Mr. Buzzard says Jesus was begotten. To beget, means to come into existence. He says that… I count these things, because when somebody uses overkill I want to know why. He mentions many times about this thing begotten, that the meaning of begotten is to come into existence. That is not THE meaning of begotten, it is one meaning. Now it can mean to come into existence, and I don’t have a problem with that. If you mean by that, Jesus Christ as a physical human Jewish boy came into existence, yeah I have no problem with that. But his thing is, it’s proof that He did not exist before that. He says, ‘how can you exist before your birth? How can you exist before you exist?’ He poo poos it.

Well begotten comes from the Greek word gennao, and guess what it means? It means to regenerate. Not generate, RE-generate. Like refurbish a car. That’s a Scriptural word.

Titus 3:5  …but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of REGENERATION, and RENEWING of the Holy Spirit;

What do you think “regeneration” means? Are you ready for this? Rebirth. Not birth, RE-birth. Remember it is usage that determines the real definition of a word, not dictionary definition. If you don’t have a Scriptural definition, you have to rely somewhat on dictionaries.

How is that thinking wrong? How is he dead wrong on that and he just emphasizes the heck out of it? He says, ‘to be begotten mean to come into existence for the first time. So therefore He did not live with His Father in heaven.’ The second I read that I saw through that, the very second. I thought wait a minute aren’t we begotten of the Holy Spirit of God? Is that when we came into existence as a human being? I don’t think so. So much for that definition you see.

There is no doubt about it, Jesus was in heaven, He was with His Father and He knows a lot.

Not only are we begotten, which means regenerate, to be reborn, it says except you be begotten AGAIN.

1Peter 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So you’ve got to come into existence for the first time, again? I mean that’s pretty stupid, right.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 06:13:32 PM by Kat »


  • Guest
Re: Is Jesus God . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy March 2011 - part 2
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 02:42:55 PM »

                                             FEARING GOD

So when I started out we talked about fearing God. People feel that Jesus Christ is not so fearful as the Father. Jesus tells us.

Rev 1:17  …Fear not…

Mat 28:20  …I am with you always…

Mat 14:27  …Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.

But then we hear, it warns us;

Heb 10:31  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

These are some of the reasons I believe that people think that there is a difference between what they think is God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Now we know that the Father doesn’t change and Jesus Christ doesn’t change. GOD doesn’t change! So whatever they are, that’s what they are going to be. So we are going to have to accept them by what they are, since they don’t change. If you don’t like the way Christ is, it isn’t like the weather, wait awhile and it will change, He won’t. He won’t change. So if you are not happy with Him or even unhappy with the Father, you are going to have to find out why you are not happy with them, because They are not going to change.

So if Jesus Christ is going to show us the Father, unveil Him, interpret Him, unfold Him, explain Him… does the Scriptures tell us from what point of reference, He does that? I mean does He just say, ‘okay I was with God, I know all about Him, I know Him as well as He knows Me and now I’m going to tell you about Him?’ Or is there a point of reference that the Scriptures talks about when He unveils this to us?

[Comment: If you have seen Me you have seen the Father.] Okay I know I didn’t make myself clear. What I mean is, if He is going to tell us what the Father is to us, does He tell us somehow what the Father is to Him to pass that on to us? Understand what I am saying? For example if there were a Scripture that says, ‘My Father is love and I am love and therefore when I love you, you know that this love is coming from the Father.’ Well there is no Scripture that is exactly like that, but pretty close in John, at the last supper He pretty much said that.

                                       IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER

Let me read this Scripture that we read before.

John 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the BOSOM of the Father, He has declared Him.

Or He has unveiled Him or unfolded Him and so on…
Does anybody catch that? Is there a reference point there that just opens up a whole panorama of what the relationship is between God and His Father? [Comment: In the bosom.] There you go. Like I said so many times, you got to pay close attention to all the words, they are not there just to fill up space, they all have deep meaning.

Where is Jesus Christ when He begins His unfold or declare the Father? Where is He? He’s “in the bosom of the Father.”

The bosom is your out stretched arms, what you would grasp when you hug somebody, you hug them in your bosom. It’s an expression of deep fondness. God likens to carrying Israel in His bosom, like you would carry a sheep, you know a little lamb or something.

Isa 40:11  He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs with His arm, and carry them in His bosom;

Or like the beggar Lazarus, it says he was in the bosom of Abraham. That means he was in an intimate emotional connection with him.

Luke 16:22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:

Then we have the example of John at the last supper, it says that he was laying back on the breast or the bosom of Jesus Christ. Which we would find almost offensive in today’s homophobic world, but Jesus Christ didn’t have a problem with that, I mean He didn’t push him away. He laid back against His chest or breast or whatever while they were talking and carrying on. In fact it was at that point that Jesus said one of you is going to offend Me.

John 13:21  When Jesus had thus said, He was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray Me.
v. 22  Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom He spoke.
v. 23  Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved.

While John was reclining back against His chest and since he was right there, very close, Peter (being the guy that he was) the Scripture said that he like motioned to him some how and he said for John to ask him, ‘who is it.‘ Because he was right there, he could (lean over) and say ‘who is it Lord.’

v. 24  Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom He spoke.
v. 25  He then lying on Jesus' breast said unto Him, Lord, who is it?
v. 26  Jesus answered, he it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it.

But He didn’t tell him, He said whoever dips the bread in the sop, that’s who it is.

But this is the point of reference where Jesus Christ, it says “He has declared Him.” “In the bosom of the Father” that’s where He is, that’s where He is declaring Him, okay. Now how great is that!

This woman (email) who had this hard time getting close to God, she said ‘maybe I just want a fizzy feeling.’ Well how fuzzy is that, you know?

It’s pretty hard to put some of this stuff together. Now of course He’s talking spiritually, symbolically, metamorphic, it isn’t that God is actually… but in a spiritual way He is embracing His Son close to Him. Closeness and endearment, Christ wants us to know that this is how He is going to unfold the Father, from this position.

To me some of these things are just incomprehensible. How does the Creator of this (galaxy), this is only one of another about 100 billion of these… what kind of a Creature, what kind of Being, what kind of a Creator is this? I’ll tell you what kind of a Creature, HE WANTS TO HUG YOU! Am I wrong? I mean this (galaxy) is pretty awesome stuff, creating universes and stuff. But this Creature, He makes things, He makes things like this (kitties), I want to hug them.

Well there is something about us that God wants to hug. He wants to hold us in His arms and hug us. It doesn’t use language like He wants to have a physiological relationship with our minds or something, no, He wants to hug us, He wants to hold us. This is the closes on the physical realm that He could tell us how He wants to be… He wants to hug us!

Now I’m sure most Christians don’t feel that way or think about that. They don’t get up every morning thinking that God wants to hug them. They think, ‘well I hope God doesn’t get ticked off at me today and cause some nasty thing to happen.’

There is my little huggable, Caesar. That’s my sweetie, I love that dog. I hug him all the time.

It’s an amazing thing, we’ve got this creation and somebody created it. The only thing on this earth that tells us anything about this Creator, except for providence itself… you know we can look at a sunset or whatever and imagine what it took to put all this together, a flower, perfumes, good tasting food and all this.

But this Creator who doesn’t even have a body, has some kind of feelings, emotions.

A friend of mine who writes on some of these subjects, he understands the salvation of all, some of it he doesn’t understand. But he said, ‘Ray, God does not have emotions, come on. He doesn’t have emotions.’ I said I don’t know, love is a pretty strong emotion.

So the whole thing just seems unreal almost, like I tell Denny sometimes, I say if I wasn’t here I would never believe it. If I were not here I would not believe this. You could not tell me that there was a vast solar system out there and that’s just a tiny speck in the Milky Way, which is one of 3 billion galaxies. No. And God made kitties and God made little green apples and it don’t rain in Indianapolis in the summer time. It’s an amazing thing!

Who thinks about these things? Well we should, we should think about them. If you feel estranged to God, then you should start thinking, ‘wait a minute, He wants to hug me, He wants to hold me.’ Okay? I mean, not literally, but with the same compassion and emotion. Spiritually He wants to hug us and THIS IS NOT SOMEBODY TO BE FEARED!

                                            THE FAMILY OF GOD

You have maybe the greatest artwork in the world centers around the theme of Madonna and Child, mother and child. Especially if you go to Europe and all these museums with Madonna and Child.

But what the Scriptures betray is Father and Son. Right? It’s the Father who is embracing and holding the Son and not as a baby, as a mature man.

From who knows how, God ever came to this? It’s got to be true, that the Creator of this universe is all about family. IT’S ALL ABOUT FAMILY!

Mat 3:17  And lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

He doesn’t say, ‘this is the Creator of the universe that I used to bring about all this great stuff, He did a good job.’ No, “this is My Son,” this is My Boy! He did this, I’m really pleased! That’s family! So then you have a beloved Son and you have a Father and we are all brothers and sisters.

The Bible talks in 2 Corinthians about sons and daughters of God the Father.

2Co 6:18  And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My SONS AND DAUGHTERS, says the Lord Almighty.

We are children, in Romans “we are the children of God.”

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the CHILDREN OF GOD:

Jesus Christ calls us little children.

John 13:33  LITTLE CHILDREN, yet a little while I am with you…

We are God’s offspring.

Acts 17:29  Forasmuch then as we are the OFFSPRING of God…

We are God’s family.

Eph 3:14  For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
v. 15  Of whom the whole FAMILY in heaven and earth is named,

So God is all about family. He devised this whole concept of husband, wife, mother, children, father, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, cousins. God came up with this.

If God originally is one being, how would you come up with this? Even from God’s prospective, what was He using to draw on to come up with this idea of family? But some how He decided He would be the Father and He would have children and they would have mates and they would produce children and all of them would be His children. Some how the Creator of the whole universe devised this whole thing.

Yet when I talk about God as an expanding family, I can’t believe how many people have jumped on that and ridiculed me. ‘Ray you’re nothing but parroting Armstrongism. Ray’s just parroting the old doctrines of Herbert W. Armstrong.’ What!?  Herbert W. Armstrong came up with the idea that God is a Father and that Jesus is His Son? Herbert Armstrong came up with that? That we are His children, that’s a Herbert Armstrong doctrine? Are you crazy!? Unbelievable. Of all people Herbert Armstrong didn’t believe ‘really’ that Christ was the Son of God, because he believed that Jesus Christ was eternal. How can a son be the same age as his father, that’s stupid. So he didn’t even have it right.

                                      GOD THE FATHER IS BEHIND IT ALL

Here is a very important Scripture in relationship to this whole study.

1John 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because (Greek, just) as He (Jesus) is, so are we in this world.

Now keep that in mind. I always have that in mind, I mean I live with that verse. I always have that verse in my mind, that “just as Jesus is, so are we in the world,” as we live out our lives.

So we could ask the question, well how is Jesus? However He is that’s how we are. How is He? Well He’s “in the bosom of the Father” (John 1:18). That’s how He is, He’s in the bosom! He’s got a very close relationship with His Father. Guess what? So do we, or we should. Because
“just as He is,” remember the Greek, not as, but “JUST AS He IS, SO ARE WE.”

John 12:49  For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Let’s take a little example of that in chapter 5 of Matthew, where He really does begin to open His mouth and teach. If you have a red letter edition you will see there is not really very much red letters in the first couple of chapters, until you come to chapter 5 and it’s all red. That’s got the sermon on the mount.

Mat 5:1  And seeing the multitudes, He went up into a mountain: and when He was set, His disciples came unto Him:
v. 2  And He opened His mouth, and taught them, saying,

Now He is going to speak and what is He going to say? What does He always say? Whatever the Father told Him He should say. Right? So whatever He is going to say now is right in line with whatever the Father said, ‘when You get them set up on the mountain, teach them this.’ So the first thing He said;

Mat 5:3  Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

So God said, ‘teach them that.’ It has to do with attitude, “poor in spirit.” You can’t take the exact meaning of all words and come up with what it’s talking about. Poor in spirit does not mean, poverty stricken in wind, okay. It means an attitude.

You remember when I said God is all about family? Well I’m only going to hit the top of the iceberg here in this study today. But I want you to get some of these principles down. But He’s all about family and whenever we start reading these things, look for that. ‘Oh He’s talking about family and here it is again… well here it is again.’ Then you will get to see what’s important with God. What does He talk about? What does Christ talk about, whatever He talks about that’s what God said, ‘teach them this, tell them this.’

“Blessed are the poor in spirit.” Now we’ve got to look for a place where Jesus Christ explains that attitude more fully. For that we will turn over to Matthew 10.

Mark 10:13  And they brought young children to Him, that He should touch them: and His disciples rebuked those that brought them.

People like to touch and they wanted Him to touch these children. Because they knew He had healed people and if He touched them He would probably do something good for them, give them a blessing of some kind. So He would touch them… and His disciples rebuked those that brought them

v. 14  But when Jesus saw it, He was MUCH DISPLEASED, and said unto them, Suffer (allow) the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

We just read where the poor in spirit (that’s an attitude), theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

v. 15  Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
v. 16  And He took them up in His arms (bosom), put His hands upon them, and blessed them.

Well who told Him to do that? Where did He learn to do all this stuff? Who “gave Him a commandment,” what to say and what to speak? His Father! His Father said you know… I don’t know if they had a conversation, as He was out praying in the morning and His Father ‘talked’ to Him and said, ‘they are going to bring You little children and you need to hold them and put your hands on them and bless them. Let the people see what kind of a person You are and Your feelings and emotions for them’ and so on.

But who is really behind it all? Well of course God the Father is behind it all. So if you want a fuzzy feeling, just understand that all these wonderful things that Christ did is coming from the Father.

One day I went through my Bible and every place that it said multitude and multitudes and the multitudes and He healed them and He healed them all… So I made a little dot and another little dot and another dot. Then I had a Bible study and I went through and just looked for all the dots and gave a Bible study. All the little dots represent who Christ is and what the Father told Him to do, heal these people and have mercy on them and so on.

So it says He took the children in His arms and He blessed them. What I’m trying to get across, this is how we should feel. I mean you want a fizzy feeling? That ought to give you a fizzy feeling.

I know it’s hard to equate that with this (pic of galaxy), it‘s pretty hard to do. It’s the only thing we have. We don’t have anything on this earth, but this book that teaches us what the Creator of this (galaxy) is all about. This is the only book there is, everything else is just pagan philosophy and so on. This (Bible) is it, and we learn here that God likes to make little kitties, He likes children, He likes to hug. Pretty fantastic isn’t it!

You can go down the whole list there, if you want to.

Matt 5:4  Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

We should mourn, I mourn for the sins and the evils and the corruption and everything else in this world. I mourn for these poor Japanese people who by the tens of thousands are homeless and their families washed away. Do you mourn for them? Or do you say, ‘I can’t wait for the football game  to come on and get ride of all this news.’

Mat 5:5  Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6  Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness:

Is that important to you? Do you really want to see goodness and righteousness rule on this earth? Well if you do you will have a chance, God’s going to give you a chance.

Then it talks about those;

Mat 5:10  Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake

Blessed are you if people persecute you and condemn you falsely for My name sake. He says be exceedingly rejoiceful because great is your reward in heaven.

Mat 5:12  Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven:

I don’t really think to much about that, but I guess I should probably think about it more often. Maybe it would get you through some of the rougher times. He says “GREAT is your reward.” When God uses words like great, that’s a bigger word than when I say great.

So if you want to be happy, He said blessed are you… blessed are the… blessed… blessed… blessed… The word means happy, in the Greek that means happy. So if you want to be happy, ask God to develop those attitudes in you.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 07:21:36 PM by Rene »


  • Guest
Re: Is Jesus God . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy March 2011 - part 2
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 02:44:51 PM »

                                       THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD

We read and I want to correct everything I said, so that I won’t leave you hanging. Like you say, ‘didn’t you say at the beginning of this talk that it was a fearful thing to fall in the hands of a living God?’ Yes I did. Now let’s find out who is that fearful living God. We are going to find out who that is. We applied that fearful living God to the Father, didn’t we when we started this out? At least I kind of insinuated that. Let’s read it in context.

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,

Well what’s the solution to that? Don’t sin WILLFULLY. DON’T DO IT! I mean if you learned the truth of God, stop your sinning, stop doing this stuff. Well you say, ‘I can’t, I just can’t. I know I can’t do it.’ Yes you can. You can if God will let you and gives you the power. He did Jesus, didn’t He. He taught us “as Jesus is, SO ARE WE.”

But you got to ask. I use the word beg. Some people find that offensive, they say, ‘I don’t beg God for anything.’ Well find you don’t have to beg Him, I’ll beg Him for you.

I don’t want to do what’s wrong. You always get hurt when you do something wrong. I mean it ALWAYS hurts you, always come back on you, if not today, next week or sometime it will come back on you. You can tell a lie and 10 years later it can come back and haunt you. Don’t do it! Don’t do it!

Boy if men that cheated on their wives could learn that. I would say the mental agony and the emotional turmoil that a man suffers for cheating on his wife is about a thousand times greater than the little sexual titillation or whatever. It goes for women too, women do cheat on their husbands, yes they do. What I’m saying is it isn’t worth it. It just isn’t worth it.

Yesterday I was at some store and I bought something and it was like $15 and I gave the girl a $20 and she gave me back a $10 and just for a instant I thought, ‘oh I just made an extra buck.’ I mean it wasn’t even half of a second till I had to cut it off and I said, ‘wooh that’s not mine, I get back a $5 and that’s a $10.’ She said, ‘oh yeah.’ You have things like that happen, it’s so easy… you think, ‘that store makes so much money,’ there is every way to justify it. Don’t do it!

If you find a $50 bill laying in the parking lot at Walmart and you say ‘well I don’t know who it belongs to, how would I know who it belongs to.’ Well if you say, ‘did you lose $50?’ They will say, ‘yes I did.’

You know I knew a little girl that did that, about 55 years ago. I was at my buddy’s house and there were some men working on the power lines. This buddy of mine his little sister, she was about 8 years old, she found a $100 bill along the road and she ask the men if they lost it and yes they did. She gave it to them and of course they didn’t lose that.

If you find  $50 you would say, ‘I don’t know who it belongs to, there is no way of knowing’ and keep it and ‘thank you Lord.’ What should you do? Is there a solution to that, what could you do? [Comment: Give it to Bible-truths.] Wrong paleface. You do not give it to Bible-truths, but you can’t say, ‘who lost $50?’ There would be about 87 people that lost $50 in the parking lot.

What you do, is you take it to the manager and say I found this in the parking lot. Then if some little old lady comes up and says, ‘I know it’s gone, I was just hoping against hope, I dropped a $50 bill, it’s all I had for my groceries. When I got out of the car I dropped it. I went back out, but it’s not there.’ He would say, ‘here it is.’

I lost this ring about 6-8 months ago. Now I have both of them on this finger, because I lost so much weight it fell off. I was up at Winn Dixie and I lost it. I knew I lost it there, I was sure I lost it there. So I went through the store, on the isles I went on and I went out to the car looked on the floor and I couldn’t find it. I said well who knows, so I asked for the manager and said I had lost a lot of weight and I dropped my wedding ring, just a plain gold band, some place in the store or outside. He said, ‘okay I will make a note of it if somebody finds it.’ So a couple of days later my wife went up there and I had told her this, I felt so bad, you know you lose your wedding band. So she talked to somebody and she said ‘the other day my husband dropped his wedding band here at the store and I was just wondering if anybody found it?’ He said, ‘yes they did.’ An old man that works at the store, he pushed the carts together, but he found it and he turned it in.

So don’t think just because you found something it’s yours, do the right thing. Always do the right thing and you will be blessed for it.

This is Tabby (kitty). Tabby is our senior citizen, Tabby is 17 years old.

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So if we “sin willfully… there is no more sacrifice for sins, but… judgment and fiery indignation.”

Heb 10:29  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant (that’s Jesus Christ’s blood), wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing,

So who would do something like that? I know somebody! I personally know somebody who has done that. They said, ‘Jesus Christ’s blood is no better than mine, His blood was just as corrupt as mine.’ What?! I know somebody that has said that and now teaches that Christ was carnal. Well you say, ‘who would do something like that.’ Well people do it, they do something like that.

Now notice it continues.

V. 29 …and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
v. 30  For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belonged unto Me, I will recompense, says the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge His people.
v. 31  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Now did you get all of that? It’s saying that if you do something really bad you are going to be held accountable in this “fiery indignation and judgment.”  Right?  He says vengeance is mine “I will recompense, says the Lord. The Lord will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

Now who is this fearful living God that it is so fearful to fall into? Well it’s “the LORD that shall judge His people.” We just read it, it says so. Right? Well who is that?

John 5:22  For the Father judges no man…

Guess what it’s not the Father. Here we thought it’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God and it isn’t the Father. Nope. It’s the judge. Who’s the judge?

v.22 …but hath committed ALL JUDGMENT UNTO THE SON:

That’s the Judge.

Acts 10:42  And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Rom 14:10  But why do you judge thy brother? or why do you set at naught your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat, (Of God the Father? No…) of CHRIST.

Acts 17:31  Because HE hath appointed a day…

Who is the “He “ here that has appoint a day, who is that? [Comment: God the Father.] At last, apparently so. Apparently now we have the Father, it doesn’t say so, but apparently so.

Whenever you have a Scripture that is contrasting the Son with somebody called God, then you probably know that is His Father who also bares the title God.

Act 17:31  Because He (God) hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness BY THAT MAN (Who is “that Man”? JESUS.) whom He hath ordained.

So after all, when we read all that in proper context, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living JESUS, isn’t it. Once more what do we prove?

John 10:30  I and My Father are one.

Really, truthfully.

End audio 2

The idea that Jesus Christ is a created creature of God the Father is in the minority. Most Christians either believe;

1) That Christ came into existence when He was born of Mary, first came into existence as a human being. That is His only existence, He never was anything but a Jewish man.

2 ) The other being that He is eternal with the Father.

I can’t see either one of them working out and I’m open minded about it. But I can’t see either one of those fitting the other Scriptures, can you Gordon? [I don’t know.] You don’t know, okay. Like I said, I’m open for it, but I see problems with both of those when you put together all the Scriptures. Unless some of the Scriptures don’t mean what they say and Christ did not mean that no man had actually seen the Father, but He was speaking metaphorically or something like that.

I can’t see where a single human being born of a physical mother living out a very short life would come to the stature of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. The greatest name there will ever be in the whole universe and all power, glory and majesty all was given to Him. You say, ‘well God can do a lot in a short period of time.’ Well I’m not doubting any of that, I’m just going by what normally the way God does things, okay. It doesn’t seem to fit.

The idea that He is eternal, personally my mind has trouble envisioning any two things being eternal. I don’t know why, does anybody feel that way? I mean I can see how there would be one God [Comment: Because you would need one source to bring about everything else, so 2 would kind of…]

The thing is if Christ was eternal, why does He have to take all these instructions from His Father? How is it that He comes up short in knowing what to do and say? Not even knowing the day of His own return.

[Comment: Could that have to do with Him empting Himself though, that He wouldn‘t know that on purpose?] I don’t think so, I mean yeah sure it’s possible. That why I say there is a lot of things possible it just doesn’t seem all that logical.

See I don’t think He empted Himself of everything that was, all knowledge everything. I don’t think so. [Comment: Maybe He empted Himself of something.] Yes He did, of course He did. He empted Himself of some prior glory that He had.

But I know Cory Brock gave a talk and he talked about how Christ had no glory. But He did. I mean there are Scriptures that say He had glory. But He didn’t have the glory that He had with the Father back then, which was vast by comparison.

So you have a couple of problems, when was He begotten? They say in 2 Psalms “today have I begotten You” and that word today is just an eternal today, yesterday-today, today-today. Tomorrow-today. I don’t necessarily buy that either.

But I could see where if Christ was involved in the creation of the universe, I could see where God would be bringing about the idea that this Creature that He created is going to be more than just this awesome Creature. He’s going to be a Son. He’s going to be the Father to a Son and He’s going to hug Him, He loves Him.

                                    THE FATHER IS NOT A HUMAN BEING

Of course Anthony Buzzard doesn’t believe that Christ emptied Himself. It’s interesting how he spends pages and pages on some of the arguments and on that one there he has, ‘there are some who believe and they say that Christ emptied Himself. Not even a full sentence just a little phrase, with a little number footnote. I mean one of the strongest most powerful Scriptures in the whole Bible that deals with the subject and he washes it away with a footnote? I mean come on. Yet he mentions that God is a person 50-100 times. Why? Because he’s not a honest person, he’s going to try to make you think he is. Was it Hitler that said if you tell a lie often enough, long enough, loud enough people will believe it.

The first definition of a person is a human being. God the Father is not a human being.

I have a little bit more that I want to cover about our relationship with God and how we see the Father in Christ.

I’m going to ask A question. Jesus Christ said no man had ever seen the Father or seen His shape or heard His voice. So I have wondered for a long time, will we ever? What do you think Gordon? [I think yes.] You think yes, okay. There is a Scripture that says we will see Him as He is.

1John 3:2  …for we shall see Him as He is.

There is the Scripture. But there is another one that says [Comment: It can’t be anything different though.] No it’s got to fit. Of course I have a way with a crowbar to make it fit. No. In 1 Tim. 6 I had trouble figuring out who this was talking about, Christ or the Father, for a long time. Still some translations put it one way or the other. See what you think.

1Tim 6:13  I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
v. 14  That you keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
v. 15  Which in His times He shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Who is that? [Comment: Jesus] Well He is the King of kings and Lord of lords. But lets read on.

1Tim 6:16  Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

1Tim 6:15  Which in His own season that blessed and only Potentate will exhibit the King of kings;

So who is doing the exhibiting? [Comment: Jesus.] Jesus? Well it sounds like it will be the Father. Gordon? [I’m not sure.] [Comment: Sounds like Jesus is going to exhibit His Father, manifest His Father.] I would put it maybe the other way, but let’s see.

1Tim 6:16  the only One possessing immortality, inhabiting light inaccessible, who no man has seen, nor is able to see;

Can this be said of Jesus?

New American Bible
1Tim 6:15  That the Blessed and only Ruler will manifest at the proper time, the King of kings and Lord of lords.
v. 16  Who alone has immortality, who dwells in the unapproachable light and whom no human being has seen are can see.

You think that is speaking of Christ? [Comment: The first part is talking about the Father and then it’s talking about Jesus.] But then again do we know that’s the proper translation.

The living Bible is pretty good on some of this stuff.

The living Bible
1Tim 6:15  For in due season Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and all mighty God, the King of kings and Lord of lords.
v. 16 Who alone can never die…

Now it’s interesting that when we know that immortality means deathlessness or you can never die. But when you say “can never die,” then it seems you rule out Jesus Christ. He died. Listen to this.

v. 16 …who lives in light so terrible that no human being (Jesus Christ is a human being) can approach Him, no mere man has ever seen Him, nor ever will.

So I’m not 100% sure on that. So I’ve wondered… we know that no man has ever seen the Father, Jesus Christ said so. We know that no human can see, not only the Father, but can’t see the glory of God no matter which divinity or member of the Godhead it would be. Because when it was Moses, it wasn’t just Elohim, you would say well that’s the Father, no that was Yahweh Elohim. So if Yahweh is Jesus, then He also has a glory, that no man can see.

We know He has a glory beyond any human being, because when He was transfigured on the mountain there, it says He had this radiance about Him. But it certainly wasn’t on the magnitude that it would kill you to look at Him, because John, Peter and James were there.

So I’m not quite sure yet. You may say what does it matter and so on and so forth? Well to me it is really an interesting concept, to know the answer to it. You know they say familiarity breeds contempt and that certainly is true to a large extent on the human level.

Those that work around the president everyday, after a while they can lose that awe and respect. I don’t think most of his cabinet do, but you know it can happen. You can think I can see his problems, he’s just like us, he’s no better than us. Sort of an attitude.

So maybe if we could see God on an equal level in eternity, that could breed familiarity, I don’t know. What do ya’ll think about that? [Comment: What is the question?] Will we ever see our Father? [Comment: It said “mere men,” us.] Yeah. [Comment: In His coming kingdom.] Well except for the Scripture here. If this is talking about the Father. Gordon do you know of another Scripture like this one in 1Timothy? Do you know of another Scripture even close to that, where it says no human being can approach Him, no mere man has ever seen Him, nor ever will? Is there another Scripture anywhere close to that? [I don’t know.] I don’t know of any. But then we have Scriptures like 1 John 3... I know this is suppose to be a Bible study where I teach you things. You get to see some of my thought processes.

1John 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God…

This is not talking about the sons of Jesus Christ, we are brothers of Jesus, we are not sons of Jesus.

v. 2 … and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear…

Where does it say that God will ever “appear“? Do you know a Scripture on that? I can think of a couple where I’m not sure whether it’s talking about Christ or the Father. But I don’t know of a specific scripture that says God the Father is going to appear unto men or something like that.  

v. 2 …we shall be like Him; for we shall SEE Him as He is.

And this is speaking of God. In verse 1.

1John 3:1  Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us,

If there is any doubt, this is God the Father. The Father has shown…

v. 2 …for we shall see Him as He is.
v. 3  And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself,

So I don’t know, usually when I think about these things and I pray about them long enough, God opens up my mind to know it one way or the other.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 10:36:12 PM by Kat »


  • Guest
Re: Is Jesus God . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy March 2011 - part 2
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 02:46:01 PM »

[Comment: What about Col 1:15, where Jesus is the image of the invisible God. If we’ve seen Jesus we’ve seen God.] Right, but again, I’m pretty sure that is speaking metaphorically, that’s not speaking literally. Because God the Father does not have a physical body, He does not have a finger nail, He doesn’t have 2 eyes in front of His head, but He can see behind His head without eyes. You know what I mean, it’s all really ridiculous. He does not have reproductive organs. His hair doesn’t grow, He doesn’t get a hair cut every month.

It’s just no way you can say, like that nit wit, I shouldn’t call him a nit wit, but he is a nit wit, Copeland, he says God the Father is about 6’2” and around 200 lbs.

There is any number of Scriptures that say, He is the express image of His Father. But not physically. [Comment: Does the Bible say that Jesus has ever seen His Father?] Yeah we covered that, yes He has. [So by putting away His former glory when He becomes a man, He will never see His Father again?] Well no, He’s going to be restored to all His prior glories, so whatever He had. [Will He see His Father again?] Yeah, He will get it back, He will certainly see Him again. [And we will be like Him?] Well again ‘like’ is sometimes relative too. Because how can you say we will be like God the Father? We live to be 60-70 years old and now we are like God the Father? I don’t think so. We are like Him in some ways.
It’s like this word ‘all.’ All does not mean, sometimes it does, but it does not always mean all. It says “all have sinned,” it means everybody, because we have lots of other Scriptures to back it up. But like I teach that God is the Savior of all humanity, all men, everyone. Theologians are quick to point out to me that all doesn’t mean all. So I gave a whole Bible study one Sunday and I showed how you can easily prove that God is the Savior of all mankind and never use the word all. You do not need to use the word all to prove it.

So “we will be like Him” doesn’t necessarily mean that we will be so much like Him that you couldn’t tell the difference. No, I don’t think so. There are parameters on that, ‘we are like.’ In fact one of the definitions of like is similar.

[Comment: God was in existence before Christ created the universe,] Even before that. [But the people in the universe and Christ were created to be a being able to live in the planet like we have here. God was before that. He was not necessary to be in an image that can be used to live in the world. Christ was made in an image that we can relate to, we were made like Him, but He was made originally to be in an image that we would be able to relate to. God the Father was before the universe, so it was not necessary for Him to be in the image of a human being that we could relate to. He was before, He was something else, He was not like a human being, like Jesus Christ was made to be for us.] You still lost me, are you saying that before Christ was born a human being, in His prior glories He was also a man. [Well I don’t know, it does mention in the Old Testament that He spoke, did He become the image of a person, just when He came on earth?] Well I don’t think He was being Himself when He appeared as a man.

Let me get real gutteral, I do not believe that Jesus Christ had sex organs, before He became a man, for what purpose? There were no woman, least not that we know of.

There is a lot we don’t know. The Bible talks about the heavenly host, who do you suppose that is. Even who are the Elohim? Well we say there were 2. Yeah says who? Who says that Elohim was 2, I don’t read that, I don’t read that at all. [comment: It’s plurality, duality?] Elohim is the plurality of El and we translate it God. You could translate it any number of ways, you don’t need to use a pagan title. Like I said, you can translate it mighty, you could translate it eternal, I guess, with one exception. If it includes Jesus Christ, if He is not eternal, then you can not translate Elohim eternal, because one member of this Elohim would not be eternal.

But it’s an interesting question, I have kind of feeling that in some respects Jesus Christ may have had the appearance of a man. But I don’t really have anything to base that on. What do you think Gordon? [I think Jesus Christ was always a man. But what He became was flesh when He came here.] Yeah I kind of think that’s probably right. I’ve always felt He was definitely masculine, not feminine. Although there is El Shaddi. [He always appeared as a man in the Old Testament.] But I mean, El Shaddi, the breasted one. I think it is El Shaddi, the breasted God. That is very feminine.

Yeah I always felt Christ was masculine and therefore would probably be called a man. In the New Testament it says “the Man, Jesus,” it definitely calls Him ‘a man.’ Was He a man back then. [Comment: In what form, I don’t understand, in what form was He a man? Certainly not a physical man.] [Comment: Well He appeared as a man in the Old Testament.] Well yeah, but so did angels, so that doesn’t prove anything. [Comment: Here is an interesting Scripture here in Colossians that we haven’t talked about, that I think might be mentioned along with this subject.]

Col 2:9  For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Yeah I’ve thought about that Scripture already.

Another thing that I think about when I read all this stuff is how did Paul know about all this? Where did he get it? I can see where he got some things from the Old Testament where we wouldn’t have gotten it, but he did. He didn’t get this from the Old Testament. [Comment: Didn’t Paul say he saw Christ?] Yeah he saw the resurrected Christ. But so did the women, they thought He was a gardener. [Comment: Didn’t Paul also take a spiritual journey and have a vision of some place.] Yeah but He didn’t say anything about Jesus Christ or what form He was in or anything like that. [Comment: When Jesus departed to go back to heaven He said He was going to send the Holy Spirit to teach us things.] And what was your point on that? [Well Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit.] Oh yes, undoubtedly. I would like to think that this Bible study was inspired by the Holy Spirit or what am I doing here if it‘s not.

I don’t think we are going to solve that today. But I’m working on it am praying about it. [comment: In Daniel in his vision he was writing about the Ancient of Days and speaking about the Son of Man. How might those 2 fit?] I don’t know. They always refer to the Ancient of Days to God the Father, you couldn‘t prove it by me.

                                           THE LIVING GOD - JESUS

Back to this thing about how we should feel about God. Here is something you need to do, in addition to understanding that God wants to hug you, he wants to hold you close. This is very intimate, this is very loving, this is terms of endearment.

Here are some Scriptures and I only point these out, there are lots of them, but I point these out so that when you study the Scriptures and so on. You put yourself into the situation that I am trying to teach you, that if Jesus said it, if He did it, then it came from the Father. Where as you think that it’s a fearful thing to fall in the hands of the living God (I already showed you) that really that applies to falling into the hands of  the living Jesus. Because He is the judge and He is the One that seems to fit the description of what’s going on there, much more than the Father.

When we hear the words of Jesus, we’re hearing the words of the Father.

John 14:10  Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself: but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.

Especially if you are talking about the works of miracles. Obviously as a 30 year old Jewish man He did not know how to walk on water. He normally wore sandals, so He wouldn't hurt His feet. Yet if He wanted to He could walk on water. He probably could walk on spike and needles.

John 12:50  And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

When we see Jesus, we see the Father. 

John 14:9  Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?

What He means by that is, He’s not lying, He’s not contradicting Himself. You know He said nobody has seen… oh yeah, yes you have, if you see Me you’ve seen the Father. No?

He’s speaking spiritually here, that if you see Jesus and everything that He does and says and represents, you're seeing the Father. Because if the Father were a man that’s how He would do it. Well He’s not a man, Scriptures say He’s not, but He’s living in a man, Christ just said so, He said the Father dwells IN Me. How Christ lived, then that’s how the Father would live. So you are seeing the Father in action, when you see Christ and really “as He is, so are we in the world.”

If you are looking at a really converted Christian, you’re looking at Jesus Christ, you’re looking at God the Father. Because that’s the way they would live, that’s the way they would do or conduct themselves or whatever situation we are talking about.

When we know Jesus, we know the Father.

1John 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God.

John 14:7  If ye had knows Me, you should have known My Father also: and from henceforth you know Him, and have seen Him.

But again through Christ, not literally.

This is the way I perceive everything in the Bible and especially the New Testament. Everything is from God, by God, of God. Put a notation in your Bibles here, in 1 Corinthians 8.

1Co 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things;

Now it says in the King James “of whom,’ now a little more technically correct would be.

1Co 8:6  But to us there is one God, the Father, OUT OF whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom are all things;

"Through" means the channel. We are save by grace, how? “Through faith” (Eph 2:8 ). Okay that’s the channel. So everything is that way. Just when you read it understand that it is from God, out of God, but it is through Jesus, because He is a man and we can identify with a man.

When we see the works of Jesus we see the works of the Father.

John 5:36  But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given Me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.

So whatever works He does it’s the Father through Him. When we see the love of Jesus towards us, we see the love of the Father towards us.

John 14:21  He that hath My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves Me: and he that loves Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

When we are in Jesus’ hands we are in the hands of the Father.

John 10:29  My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.

So He doesn’t even acknowledge that they are in His hands, He just says they are in My Father’s hands. So keep all those things in mind when you study the Scriptures.

                                            IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH

Here is an interesting Scripture and I will throw it out here.

John 4:23  But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship Him.

Now I wonder how many of us have ever thought about that verse? Listen to the Words, “but the hour comes and now is,” what does that mean? What about “before the hour comes and now is,” was He not worshipped in spirit and in truth? [Comment: Worship in the Temple?] No, what I’m asking is, was He not worshipped in spirit and in truth? [Comment: Probably not. I make that assessment by going back to the laws that He instilled in us.] Yeah, I guess I would probably have to go alone with that myself too.

Why else would He say “the hour comes and now is”? How is it that it is still coming, but yet it is? Well because He was here on the earth teaching and people were perceiving His teaching. Like Peter said, ‘we’re doing it Lord, we’re following you, we have given up everything, we’re doing it.’ Christ said, ‘I know you are and those of you that have followed Me in this period of regeneration,’ He said, ‘you will be rewarded. The hour is coming, the new world is coming, this gospel has got to go out and be taught to the whole world. This is new, it’s coming and already is among a few that have already been selected.’

When ‘true’ worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth... did they worship Him before that? Of course they did, but He is distinguishing them from TRUE worshipers and specifically not just worshiping hourly, like the priest of Baal, but in ‘SPIRIT AND TRUTH.”

This is something new, this is what the Father wants, He said the Father “seeks” that. That's what He wants, He doesn't want the, ‘well I sacrificed my lamb and my evening goat and I brought my burnt offerings.’ He said that’s not what I’m talking about. [Comment: Isn’t that when Jesus said He was going to kindle a fire, even though that fire has already been kindled?]

Luke 12:49  I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 

Yeah that same sort of idea, yeah it’s already started and what if it is already kindled. What if We have already started that fire.

So this is an interesting concept to think about. This is something that the Father has been looking forward to for a long time and now it’s come. Why has it come? Because the Holy Spirit is going to be given to men and convert there minds. There was a transition period there. He told them in the 14 chapter of John, at the last supper where He said that the spirit has been “WITH you and shall be IN you” and they were to wait for the spirit until Pentecost.

John 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth… for He dwells WITH you, and shall be IN you.

This is what the Father wants. Now are you going to be one of those that grants His wish, so to speak. Out of, I don’t know how many people have ever lived, I’ll say out of 20-30 billion the Father picked you and me. He only picked a few, only a couple out of 30-40-50 BILLION He picked us to be true worshippers. You were hand picked.

John 6:44  No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him:

Christ does not decide who is going to inherit the kingdom of God. Now once the Father picks them, He says I know who they are. He knows those that are His, but He doesn’t pick them. God hand picks us and He picks people that He wants to worship Him now, in spirit and in truth. He wants them to be a light to the world, just not all out greedy, greedy, greedy. Be a light to the world and there are many many Scripture where it talks about producing fruit, good fruit, lots of fruit. So He wants us to produce fruit and then He’s going to give us the kingdom of God and a huge reward.

In conclusion.

1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God…

How do we know He loves us? He hugs us, He puts His arms around us. What He does to Christ, He does to us. He loves us.

v. 7 …and every one that loves is born (begotten) of God…

Understand in the Greek the word born and begotten are the same word, you have to determine from the context whether it means to be conceived or actually be born.

1John 4:9  In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
v. 10  Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
v. 11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
v. 12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.
v. 13  Hereby know that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit.
v. 14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Now I do that. I testify to that over and over and I don’t see too many people doing that. Who testifies that Jesus Christ is going to save the whole world? Who? Who does that? There is a few. How many do you know Gordon, a few dozen? [Yeah.] Maybe even a hundred or something, you do, I do, Jim Coran, Rick, Gary Amirault, there are different ones that teach, they are kind of screwed up in some other areas, some of them are.

Now listen to this.

1John 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have BOLDNESS in the day of judgment…

That’s good. Because you know how I emphasize over and over and over again, have a clean conscience. Don’t do anything, don’t say anything, don’t go anywhere where you are going to feel bad about it tomorrow. DON‘T DO IT!

You live this way and you will have “boldness” in the day of judgment. You won’t be shaking in your boots, because you know… they know you’re not perfect, of course you will, you know you have made mistakes and your carnality popped up once in a while, sure it has. But you will know where your heart and your mind was. You’ll know and you will have boldness in the day of judgment.

v. 17 … because as He is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear…

We were talking about are you afraid of God? Well you are not made perfect in love yet, but when your love develops that fear will be gone.

v. 19  We love Him, because He first loved us.
v. 20  If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar: for he that loves not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
v. 21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loves God love his brother also.

I hope we learned a few things here today.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 11:46:21 AM by Kat »
Pages: [1]   Go Up

Page created in 0.033 seconds with 21 queries.