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[indianabob]

If all will eventually be saved and they will; how then are those in Malachi 4:3 going to be ashes under the feet of the saints of God?

Mal 4:
1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3“You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the LORD of hosts.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Chaff is character flaws that God is burning out of us (Matt 3:12, Lk 3:17)leaving the "natural branches" teachable or "ashes under the feet of the saints

Rom 11:16  For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. (They were evildoers and arrogant Mal 4:1)
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree
Rom 11:18  Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Not Hell or ash under the feet of Saints, but God, All in All, is the grand finale. 

[Mbongiseni]

Arcturus
Your comment is short but somehow I do not understand it.

Not Hell or ash under the feet of Saints, but God,...

Maybe you should rephrase it.
Its like you saying God will be under the feet???

Anyway according to 1 Cor 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

The judgement is the work of God and the saints will partake in the judgement as servants of the Most High. To have overcome and help others to overcome or subdue the evil character traits of the individuals is putting them under the feet as ashes.

Sorry this is how it should have been. I forgot to close the quote.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Mbongiseni

I like your honesty.

You say that my comment makes you think I am saying God will be under the feet. Well....how you drew that conclusion from what I said, is beyond me!  LOL.

To every thing there is a season, and a time for every purpose under the heavens.

Arc

[JohnMichael]

Arcturus
Your comment is short but somehow I do not understand it.

Not Hell or ash under the feet of Saints, but God,...

Maybe you should rephrase it.
Its like you saying God will be under the feet???

Hell or "ashes under the feet of the saints" is not the ending for mankind ["Hell" doesn't exist anyway]. God being All in All is the grand finale - the consummation of the ages.

Even that is not where the story ends, however. That is still a secret, and "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" - 1 Cor 2:9 (and that will include everyone at the consummation).

Hope this helps

In Him,
John

[Deborah-Leigh]

Revealed to you by His Spirit, John.  Well expounded! ~

Particular emphasis on the inclusion of everyone,  non lost, or left behind,  Glory to God! ~

Arc

[indianabob]

Thank you friends for your comments.
However, that leaves the subject open to those who believe that if sinners become ashes then they must have gone through a literal burning and have been scattered on the surface of the earth for saints to tread upon. I suppose it is similar to the doctrine of annihilation instead of the error of eternal burning (torture).
Any further exposition would be appreciated.

Indiana Bob

[rumpelstiltskin]

Hi Bob

Admitidly I couldn't teach a fish to swim, but one thing that Ray is insistant on is John 6:63, remember that God is a consuming fire Heb 12:29. I had those scriptures in mind when I read your post.

Tom

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hey Bob

There's no such thing as "annihilation" ~ conformation... yes... to the Image of Christ.

... "annihilation" no. That's  Jehovah Witness jargon.

Annihilation, and death, is overcome in the Resurrection and the Life, non lost Glory of God. ~

[JohnMichael]

Hey Bob

There's no such thing as "annihilation" ~ conformation... yes... to the Image of Christ.

... "annihilation" no. That's  Jehovah Witness jargon.

Annihilation, and death, is overcome in the Resurrection and the Life, non lost Glory of God. ~

And the JWs got it from Egyptian pagan god worship hogwash . The Egyptians believed that when one died, one's heart was weighed against a feather (which symbolized their pagan goddess of truth - Maat). If the heart weighed more than the feather, a crocodile ate the heart, and thus the person ceased to exist.

Bob, I'm thinking the Lord used figurative language when He said that sinners would be ashes under the feet of the saints in Mal 4:3.

(Jewish Publication Society version)
Mal 4:1  (3:19) For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall set them ablaze, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:3 (3:21) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I do make, saith the LORD of hosts.

What comes to mind is how the enemies of the Lord (and thus His saints also) will be brought into subjection to Him. They will be like ashes under foot. I don't think that means literally though.

Notice how verse 1 lines up perfectly with 1 Cor 3:12-15:

(WNT)
1Co 3:12  And whether the building which any one is erecting on that foundation be of gold or silver or costly stones, of timber or hay or straw--
1Co 3:13  the true character of each individual's work will become manifest. For the day of Christ will disclose it, because that day is soon to come upon us clothed in fire, and as for the quality of every one's work-- the fire is the thing which will test it.
1Co 3:14  If any one's work--the building which he has erected--stands the test, he will be rewarded.
1Co 3:15  If any one's work is burnt up, he will suffer the loss of it; yet he will himself be rescued, but only, as it were, by passing through the fire.

And WHO does the burning?

Heb 12:29  For our God is also a consuming fire.

Hope this helps.

In Him,
John

[Rene]

However, that leaves the subject open to those who believe that if sinners become ashes then they must have gone through a literal burning and have been scattered on the surface of the earth for saints to tread upon.

Hi Bob,

You have received some very good answers to your original question.  The only thing I would add is that if you are trying to convince someone that there is no "literal burning" of people in judgment, you will not be able to do so unless the Lord opens up their understanding and then they will see it and believe it.

The Elect will be Judges in the next age, and this judgment will be as if through fire.  It is a real fire, but it's not literal.

René


Here is an email from Ray that may help as well:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7361.0.html

Dear Andy:
A couple of Installments back in my Hell series I explained Matt. 10:28 in detail. You did not read it. You have several concepts all twisted up. You ask why there can't be spiritual fire?  Not only can there be, there IS.  That's the whole point of this whole thing of Judgment by "fire."  The "fire" is SPIRITUAL FIRE.   I have stated and shown it from the Scriptures, over and over and over again.  All of the "fiery" trials that the Apostles speak of are not LITERAL PHYSICAL FIRE that burn and kill the physical skin and flesh.  I really don't know what to say that I haven't said that would make it clear to you. You are missing a lot, I'm afraid. You need to read the whole Lake of Fire series, and maybe it will come clearer for you. You need to pray for spiritual understanding of spiritual things.

God be with you,

Ray

PS   No, Andy, there is NOT a physical place with streets of physical gold and gates of pearls. These too are all figurative and symbolic.  The New Jerusalem is not a PHYSICAL city.  

[Gina]

Right on, Rene!  Real indeed.

[mharrell08]

Thank you friends for your comments.
However, that leaves the subject open to those who believe that if sinners become ashes then they must have gone through a literal burning and have been scattered on the surface of the earth for saints to tread upon. I suppose it is similar to the doctrine of annihilation instead of the error of eternal burning (torture).
Any further exposition would be appreciated.

Indiana Bob

Bob, another point to consider is the Bible uses figurative language to express many truths. Doctrines such as the one of annihilation come about when theologians teach that the figurative language in the Bible is to be interpreted literally.


Marques

[indianabob]

Thank you all for the additional advice and counsel.
I will be cautious where I use it.

Indiana Bob

[gmik]

Grrrreat thread!!!

I think I know this stuff but still LOVE (and need) to be reminded and reminded;  and short snippets of Ray are to me like "apples of gold in a setting of silver" (or vice versa); dew on a blade of grass; sunshine on a cloudy day etc etc...

metaphors, parables, similes, ancient languages full of pictograph words, written to a basically unlearned rural society, trying to hide things from occupying nations, etc etc... Ray once said the entire bible was just one parable saying one thing- I like it short and simple like that.

(I just told a friend the other day that a literal dragon was NOT  gonna rise up out of the sea!!!  She was actually disappointed. )

[Deborah-Leigh]

metaphors, parables, similes, ancient languages full of pictograph words, written to a basically unlearned rural society, trying to hide things from occupying nations,

Simply delicious!

[gmik]

thanks!   (for 2 in the morning not too bad!)