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[dodrill]

we celebrate / mourn a man's life
if i can be so blatant to ask - after Jesus died - and they knew they had killed an innocent man according to their law - how this conscience came into being?
is this the holy spirit? - that tells us with a conscience that something so good had to be an example?
not saying madiba is a Christ - but a sacrifice or sentimello?

no comparison I know - just a shadow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-4C9_0c59g

Can I add from my stupid stance of being human - the reason Jesus dies - is because WE KILLED HIM - yes us human nastiness - jealously hatred lawless AND spitefulness KILLED HIM = and God allowed it

[John from Kentucky]

we celebrate / mourn a man's life
if i can be so blatant to ask - after Jesus died - and they knew they had killed an innocent man according to their law - how this conscience came into being?
is this the holy spirit? - that tells us with a conscience that something so good had to be an example?
not saying madiba is a Christ - but a sacrifice or sentimello?

no comparison I know - just a shadow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-4C9_0c59g

Can I add from my stupid stance of being human - the reason Jesus dies - is because WE KILLED HIM - yes us human nastiness - jealously hatred lawless AND spitefulness KILLED HIM = and God allowed it

God does not allow anything.  God is Sovereign.  God is behind everything that occurs.  God killed Jesus.  Only God can kill God.  Acts 2:23 and 3:18  Also read Job chapters 1 and 2.

It is time for us all to grow up and look behind the curtain.  Of course, the great false church does not know or teach this.

[dodrill]

God killed/ sanctioned / allowed - same thing -  the 'Son of Man' DIED - only to be an example of the Way
continually making a kill of people who Love and are pacifists along the way shows God is with us x
hey I believe His judgements and New heaven and Earth are RIGHT NOW xx that is what I see
While the Light prevails - does the light = conscientiousness - meaning those that have ears to hear?
We need to remember we are flesh xx love from the heart - muddy as it is - it is still beautiful to God

[Dave in Tenn]

I was sorry to hear of his death.  I see him as an imperfect and growing good example in an evil world.  To my mind, all of the examples we can learn from didn't end with the closing of the canon.  It's no more "wrong" to appreciate the good we can see in others as young people and adults than it is to be raised by our parents.  I look forward to a day when the good he modeled will be commonplace.

[John from Kentucky]

Jesus said...No one is good except God alone.  Mark 10:18 NASB

[Abednego]

Jesus said...No one is good except God alone.  Mark 10:18 NASB

This is probably one of the hardest truths for me to wrap my brain around.

[dodrill]

no body has ever heard or seen God - except Jesus - perhaps we are meant to see God in each other ?x

[Dave in Tenn]

Thankfully, I don't need all my heroes to be "good".  Men are judged according to their works, whether those works are good or bad.  WORKS are good and bad.  Men are neither.  They are just vessels.

[cjwood]

amen dave in tenn.  works are good or bad, not man.  the scriptures even say there are good works.  no good people. 

claudia

p.s.  i too was sad to hear of mandela's passing.  all is of God.  mandela was a vessel God used.

[Rhys 🕊]

An inspiring man used of God. I spent a year in South Africa so always feel close to that country and the people there.

Rhys

[loretta]

We certainly can't deny the great good that Mandela accomplished in his life, all of which was purposed by God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGS7SpI7obY
Watch Mandela dance to Asimbonanga with a smile that you know is not put on for the cameras. The kind that wells up from the very depths of the soul. In Mandela's case, a very rare soul indeed.

[cjwood]

We certainly can't deny the great good that Mandela accomplished in his life, all of which was purposed by God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGS7SpI7obY
Watch Mandela dance to Asimbonanga with a smile that you know is not put on for the cameras. The kind that wells up from the very depths of the soul. In Mandela's case, a very rare soul indeed.




thank you loretta for the words above.   

claudia

[indianabob]

Inspiring and having a good rhythm as well. Loved the instrumental.
Do you know when this was recorded?
Was it during his term as President?
Just curious, Indiana Bob

We certainly can't deny the great good that Mandela accomplished in his life, all of which was purposed by God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGS7SpI7obY
Watch Mandela dance to Asimbonanga with a smile that you know is not put on for the cameras. The kind that wells up from the very depths of the soul. In Mandela's case, a very rare soul indeed.

[cjwood]

hi ibob.  i believe the video was made in 1999, in france.  i googled "asimbonanga". 

claudia

[indianabob]

Thanks much,
I like to dig into background to get a feeling for detail.
I-Bob

[loretta]

Thankfully, I don't need all my heroes to be "good".  Men are judged according to their works, whether those works are good or bad.  WORKS are good and bad.  Men are neither.  They are just vessels.

True Dave.  In 1996 Mandela promoted and signed into law the ‘Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Bill’ that, according to the New York Times, ‘replaced one of the world’s toughest abortion laws with one of the most liberal.’''

[Rene]

No man is worthy to be praised.  Even those who do "good works" are also very capable of doing "not so good works" as well.

René

[John from Kentucky]

No man is worthy to be praised.  Even those who do "good works" are also very capable of doing "not so good works" as well.

René

Bingo.  Totally agree.   

[Dave in Tenn]

HERO is a literary term.  When a man lives 95 years and goes through fundamental changes in an active and involved life under circumstances that promote that change, he has led an "heroic" life.  I don't and can't follow him, just as I don't and can't follow any man.  I'm stuck being me, and I'm in my own circumstance.  Sorry, but you can't be "here" either, not that anybody would want to be.   

Mandela was at one time a bomb-planting terrorist/freedom-fighter.  He didn't die that way.  He was a politician, but he left office after one term.  There was an arc to his life that I find inspiring and commendable, regardless of his politics or opinions.  There are so few, I think I will keep this one no matter what anybody says.    

Our Apostle Paul is another example of HERO...it's just that he's in the bible.  I don't whitewash his errors--he certainly didn't--but there is a sense that I "follow" him, especially since I see him as the the first really historically fleshed-out one of "us".  Though the bible is pretty scant on "biography" in general, there's barely a man or woman in there that doesn't have the "bad" side of their works and character in their story. 

[loretta]

Our Apostle Paul is another example of HERO...it's just that he's in the bible.  I don't whitewash his errors--he certainly didn't--but there is a sense that I "follow" him, especially since I see him as the the first really historically fleshed-out one of "us".  Though the bible is pretty scant on "biography" in general, there's barely a man or woman in there that doesn't have the "bad" side of their works and character in their story.

Well said, Dave.

I've heard critics in Christendom say that pastors/leaders don't have the courage to say as Paul did, Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 1 Cor 11:1 because that they knew their lives were not worthy (which is an understatment ).  But if Paul could say that inspite of knowing his faults, can we do likewise?