I am left with a bit of confusion... can someone help.
I took this from one of Ray's teachings : A women is a "church" in Scripture and Symbolism, and Prophecy. The MOTHER is the Jewish religion from whence came the NEW Testament Church. The HARLOT DAUGHTERS are all the different churches and denominations which came OUT OF the Mother Church. It is the combination of all these churches that is called: "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH." And it is this Babylonish system of religion that we are to "COME OUT OF."
No I was thinking, looking back at what you (Kat) mentioned above i.e. but I also think of Babylon as the whole worldly system in general too, as it has the proclivity towards carnality.
No how does one come out of the WORLD? I believe we have to be a part of all this, it is for our benefit. But then again, COMING OUT OF BABYLON, now that is an entirely different thing altogether.
Well that is a fair question. When you think about the 'church' as Babylon, certainly it is the huge Christian religious system spread around the world, but in a broader sense think how much the church is involved in the political system and how much they have manipulated the governments of the world. We may not notice it so much here in the US, but the church and state (the social, political, and economic systems) have been so intertwined throughout history as they are hard to separate. Indeed isn't the woman (church) sitting on a wild beast (political world system) that John sees in Revelation 17?
Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
v. 2
with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication."
v. 3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
It's this whole worldly system that is carnal and corrupt where Satan rules, and as we learn to serve and obey God we must turn away from all the vices of the world.
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
v. 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
We should no longer agree with worldly affairs/principles, we are no longer "conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God" (Rom 12:2). This requires that we separate, stand apart and not participate in the governmental and even most social functions.
2Cor 6:14 Stop becoming unevenly yoked with unbelievers. What partnership can righteousness have with lawlessness? What fellowship can light have with darkness?
v. 15 What harmony exists between the Messiah and Beliar, or what do a believer and an unbeliever have in common?
v. 16 What agreement can a temple of God make with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said: "I will live and walk among them. I will be their God, and they will be my people."
v. 17 Therefore, "Get away from them and separate yourselves from them," declares the Lord, "and don't touch anything unclean. Then I will welcome you.
v. 18 I will be your Father, and you will be my sons and daughters," declares the Lord Almighty. (ISV)
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
This is a high calling, the highest there is... how can we expect to rule with Christ if we keep our minds bogged down in worldly matters. Yes we are still living in this world and we have to go about our daily lives, but the main focus of our minds should be on spiritual things, the things of God, not on this world of darkness where Satan rules.
John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
v. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
v. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Here are a couple places where Ray mentioned this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1348.0.html ---------
John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
Please would you tell me what Jesus could have meant in John 17:9 where He excluded the world in His prayer. Who did he mean to be excluded?
Thank you & bless you
Deborah
Dear Deborah:
Good question.
The "world" represents two entities in Scripture: [1] The Church, Judaism, the Whore, Mystery Babylon the Great, and [2] The social system of the the nations in general.
Jesus referred to both in John's Gospel account:
"...but be of good cheer; I have overcome the WORLD" (John 16:33). What "world?" Did He overcome China? Japan? Indolnesia? No, Jesus overcame the world of Judaism--"He came unto His own [the Jews] but they received Him NOT," and hence He had to overcome them all the days of his earthly ministry.
But in John 17:24 read, "...for You loved Me before the foundation of the WORLD" is speaking of the whole "kosmos"--the whole system of world governemtns.
Jesus prayed for NEITHER of these two "worlds," as their destiny is solidly fixed by God's divine providence, and therefore prayer would be of no value. Jesus does not pray that His Father's Prophecies should NOT come to pass, and neither do God's Elect pray such nonsense as is parroted daily over the air waves "pray for world peace." Nonsense. There will be no world peace--God has already decreed it.
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html ---------------------------------
In verse 13 these same ungodly men are called, "RAGING WAVES OF THE SEA…" (Jude 1:13).
"Come hither; I will show you unto you the judgment of the great whore that sits UPON MANY WATERS" (Rev. 17:1). And the "many waters" are defined as, "The waters which you saw, where the whore sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." (Rev. 17:15)
The whore is a great church, and it sits on a wild beast (a great political system), and John, "…saw a wild beast rise up OUT OF THE SEA (Rev. 13:1). This beast does not rise up out of one particular sea, that is one particular nation or people or multitude or tongue, but out of ALL OF THEM.
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives THE WHOLE WORLD…" (Rev. 12:5).
And the waters on which the whore sits are called, "…peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." In other words, the whore sits upon ALL THE SEA; ALL THE PEOPLES AND MULTITUDES AND LANGUAGES AND NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE EARTH! And she RIDES the wild beast that came up out of this same great and vast sea of humanity.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
P.S. FAQ - What is Babylon?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11603.msg100451.html#msg100451