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[Dennis Vogel]

I've been sitting on this for a few weeks trying to decide to make this post or not. It may be all nonsense but then again maybe not. I don't know but here it is.

Rev 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 
Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 
Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. 

In the last few weeks I've seen several YouTube videos about governments moving to digital currencies in the near future. But this one by Mike Maloney really got my attention:  https://youtu.be/AUP3S3vFLQY

BTW, when he talks about the 'woo flu' he means Covid-19. This keeps the YouTube censors away.

Around 18 minutes in Maloney talks about Social Credit Scores which are already being used in China. In China if you have a poor Social Credit Score you cannot get an apartment, buy a bus ticket, certain foods, a car, and so on. This is all controlled by a smartphone app. Almost everyone in China uses this app to pay for everything including transferring funds between two people. They keep track of everything!

This link will jump directly to that topic in Maloney's video:  https://youtu.be/AUP3S3vFLQY?list=PLSnOlh5tXXT3ZA8brpT8kwNdOkzcU9y9D&t=1086

Mike Maloney also talks about how the US 'Stimulus Checks' will be made in these new digital dollars and how everyone will sign-up because they want that free digital money. This is or may soon be US legislation that can go into effect anytime.

And for what it's worth, I noticed "PayPal allows Bitcoin and crypto spending"  https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54630283  PayPal said it was aiming "to increase consumer understanding and adoption of cryptocurrency." - Starting to look like they're all in on it, that is, controlling who buys and sells?

Again, speculation on my part. But time will tell.

[ZekeSr]

Hi Dennis,

I haven't checked out the video yet, but it struck me right away that your thoughts are similar to something I mentioned in the thread concerning 'the mark' which I have copied below:

"Nevertheless, I still wonder about those underlying and often (deliberately?) misleading “secondary” insinuations of Scripture that I believe exist. They generally revolve around prophesy. I see them as essentially the superficial issue(s) of preoccupation that prevents the majority from not only seeing the deeper underlying truth, but not even able to fully understand the superficial issue itself.

This preoccupation with a "physical mark" is what I believe to be possibly one of those superficial issues that may be real in the end but hides the deeper underlying truth of the mark being personal to the beast within us all.
 
With or without the TRACE Act, we are all being monitored and followed more and more by both government and private entities. And the common general assumption is that the “mark” will be some kind of chip. In the end, I suppose that may very well be the case. But, in a way, the majority of us are already carrying around a “proto-mark” that has to do with your head and your hand. It’s your phone.

Whether I'm right or wrong, these are some of the things I think about. Just a little food for thought."

I was already aware of the social credit scores in China, but not to the extent you have mentioned, much less where else it is headed in the world.

Mike.

[ZekeSr]

I watched the whole video. One way or the other it's a disturbing trend.

It was only about six months ago that I had a discussion with several younger members of my family about my concern over a cashless society. They scoffed at the idea of anything bad about it no matter what I tried to convey. After all, they already have no more than a few dollars, if any, in their pockets anymore. Everything they do is done with a card or an app. "That can't happen here." I'm just an old fashioned 'conspiracy theorist.'

We're already halfway there. I'm going to send them the YouTube link.

Isa_44:2  I am your Creator. You were in my care even before you were born. Israel, don't be terrified! You are my chosen servant, my very favorite.
Rev 13:8  The beast was worshiped by everyone whose name wasn't written before the time of creation in the book of the Lamb who was killed.
Rev 13:9  If you have ears, then listen!
Rev 13:10  If you are doomed to be captured, you will be captured. If you are doomed to be killed by a sword, you will be killed by a sword. This means that God's people must learn to endure and be faithful!
Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Nevertheless, Father, your will be done.
Mike

[Shawn Fainn]

It goes much deeper when you tie in what they are using this global plandemic for.. I'd say more, but i don't want the thread to be locked or admonished for posting 'teaching links', etc. But i'd recommend getting a book by Klaus Schwab (Chairman of the World Economic Forum) titled 'Covid-19: The Great Reset' to see what their plans are.

[Dennis Vogel]

It goes much deeper when you tie in what they are using this global plandemic for.. I'd say more, but i don't want the thread to be locked or admonished for posting 'teaching links', etc. But i'd recommend getting a book by Klaus Schwab (Chairman of the World Economic Forum) titled 'Covid-19: The Great Reset' to see what their plans are.

You're not going to get locked or admonished unless you post something that is bias for one political party or another. As I've said, that causes a lot of bad feelings and starts never ending arguments.

You can suggest/teach anything as long as it's not a link to bible teaching sites or personalities, or political sites. There have been links I've wanted to post but there were bias political comments that ruled it out.

When you find something you think some would appreciate try not to present it as dogma, but be open and mindful to contrary views.

Some guidelines that could apply to topics in this age - English Standard Version:

Rom 14:1  As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 
Rom 14:2  One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 
Rom 14:3  Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 
Rom 14:4  Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 
Rom 14:5  One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 

2Ti 2:14  Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 
2Ti 2:15  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 
2Ti 2:16  But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 
2Ti 2:17  and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 
2Ti 2:18  who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. 

[Dennis Vogel]

Let me add that my reply is not aimed at Shawn from Georgia but for all of us.

[lareli]

For anyone interested there’s an episode of Black Mirror all about a near future society that is governed by social credit.

Season 3 episode 1

[Dennis Vogel]

I'm seeing more and more talk about the 'new' Bretton Woods' monetary system.

This two minute video explains - What is the "Bretton Woods" System:  https://youtu.be/-6bVeDab6UA

[Musterseed]

There is also a Documentary called ... Social Dilemma

My son recommended it to me. I’ve only watched the trailer yet but
I did read an article about it and the article contained the words behemoth
and leviathan . That caught my eye 👁 . It’s all about the tech giants.
The internet / social media.

The scripture ( out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks,)  came to mind.
Also the book of James, taming the tongue.

Quote from Ray....And James informs us that no man can tame this little monster called the tongue.
For if he could, then he would be a perfect man, and able to bridle( to curb, conquer and control
the whole body.
And what is the solution to bridling the tongue which speaks for and in behalf of the deceitful heart?
Why to fight fire with fire.......etc.
I found this quote in Gehenna Fire Judgement PT D 4

In Christ
Pamela

[arion]

Mike Maloney is excellent at what he does in explaining what TPTB are doing economically and the great economic 'reset' that is about to happen as the whole world is now in debt beyond the ability to pay.  Dr. Chris Martenson is another great one with a YouTube channel on the economic aspects of what is going on and having a Phd in pathology he has been very valuable during this Covid mess in separating the wheat from the chaff as it were.

[indianabob]

Hi folks and Dennis,

I have to wonder what concerns us about having this mark in our head or hand.
What is it that we lose or gain because of the mark and why should we object?
Is it about keeping a job or having our conduct exposed to public view?

Indiana Bob

[zvezda]

I don't think the mark has anything to do with the money/currency system.

There are some moneyless communities all over the world, they don't care what currencies the world is using. Also, the word "sell" (4453. póleó) doesn't necessarily have to involve money, it also means "to exchange or barter".

Who will receive the mark? (pay attention to the words in Rev 13:16)

All, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond

I am sure there are billions of people in the world who are too poor and have zero money to buy and nothing to sell. And when it says "bond", I think of the hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs enslaved in the concentration camps in China. For them, what's the point of receiving the mark? Mark or no mark, they can't even get out of the camps anyway.

And who will NOT receive the mark?

Rev 20:4 And I saw high seats, and they were seated on them, and the right of judging was given to them: and I saw the souls of those who were put to death for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and those who did not give worship to the beast, or to his image, and had not his mark on their brows or on their hands; and they were living and ruling with Christ a thousand years.

I just think "no man might buy and sell" is not the key point of Rev 13:17, it mainly tells us we are all beast that's it.

[Dennis Vogel]

All good points zvezda

[Mzantsi]

WHAT DOES "SPIRITUAL" MEAN?

The American Heritage Dictionary, p. 1335, spiritual adj. 1. Of, relating in, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL.

Strong's Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, "spiritual" #4152, pneumatkos, "Pneumatkos ALWAYS connotes the ideas of INVISIBILITY and of POWER" p. 205. (All CAPS are mine).

THE "LAKE OF FIRE-SECOND DEATH" IS NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL OR LITERAL, BUT RATHER IS AN INVISIBLE POWER! THE LAKE OF FIRE IS SPIRITUAL!

That's right: the lake of fire is spiritual and therefore invisible. No one will ever SEE the lake of fire; just as no one will ever SEE God's Spirit; and just as no one will ever SEE God's "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). But make no mistake about it; the lake of fire is REAL, and it is very HOT, and it BURNS things, and its effects are ETERNAL-all, of course, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING.
--------------------------------------------------

Let us not forget that this is spiritual,and has nothing to do with money or physical things.

Lets focus and not get side tracked by what is happening in the world.

[ralph]

With all due respect, this discussion sounds more like what I see from the orthodox crowd, who try to find similarities between worldly events and scripture from Revelation. 

I was becoming entangled for a time with all that is going on in the world and it’s the last thing I wish to discuss here in the forums. Why not instead have a discussion and further studies on spiritual things?  That would be a much better usage of the short time we have left.

The Book of Revelation is a spiritual book.  The words of Jesus Christ are spiritual. The beast, the mark, it’s all spiritual. That’s what the Bible teaches and that is what Ray taught.

We need to be very careful or we might end up in a bad place.

Mark 4:19
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

2 Peter 2:20
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Revelation 3:11
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 Proverbs 23:23
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Proverbs 3:3-4
3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.

[Dennis Vogel]

With all due respect we are told to watch and pray:

Luk 21:35  For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 

Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. 

[Mzantsi]

With all due respect, this discussion sounds more like what I see from the orthodox crowd, who try to find similarities between worldly events and scripture from Revelation. 

I was becoming entangled for a time with all that is going on in the world and it’s the last thing I wish to discuss here in the forums. Why not instead have a discussion and further studies on spiritual things?  That would be a much better usage of the short time we have left.

The Book of Revelation is a spiritual book.  The words of Jesus Christ are spiritual. The beast, the mark, it’s all spiritual. That’s what the Bible teaches and that is what Ray taught.

We need to be very careful or we might end up in a bad place.
[/b]

Good points. This discussion is forgetting the basics. The likes of Mike Maloney will deceive one into focusing on the physical instead of the spiritual. Ray explained that spiritual means invisible,so the mark,beast and its name ARE ALL INVISIBLE!

[Extol]

I disagree with those who state "it is all spiritual"....though I understand that view, having held it for a decade after being introduced to Ray's writings. Eventually I realized it was just a nice excuse for me to be lazy rather than dig in to the Bible and study it. If there's something I didn't understand, well, "it's all spiritual." Problem solved.

The prophets all wrote about things that historically happened (or will happen). Especially notable in this regard is Daniel, whose predictions of real, historical events were so accurate that the higher critics believed they must have been written after the fact. Revelation is a continuation of Daniel. The beast kingdoms Daniel saw in his vision went only as far as Rome, but Revelation takes it further. The Bible, from Genesis onward, even into the New Testament with the Gospels and Acts, speaks of real, historical events--it would be very odd, then, if at the end it changes to nothing physical or literal, all spiritual.

God rules over history; as Nebuchadnezzar said, "the Most High is ruler in the kingdom of men, and to whom He willeth He giveth it, and the lowest of men He doth raise up over it" (Dan. 4:17). Like Ray said when talking about Esther, you don't find God's name anywhere in the book...but you see His hand everywhere. "It's all spiritual" detaches us--and God--from this fact.

There is a lot happening in the world--and there are clues in the Bible--that indicate we are very near to witnessing the return of the King; but you have to have your eyes open to see it. You don't have to be interested in politics or economics, but I think it's ignorant to say what's going on in the world has nothing to do with the plan of God.

The Kingdom of God is going to come to this literal earth, and there will be literal people on it. Too much talk of "it's all spiritual" diminishes the realness of what is to come. It makes it sound like we are going to be nebulous spirit beings floating around doing who knows what.

[Musterseed]

Truth # 1…. The sequence of God’s plan of salvation for mankind is
most important. First is the PHYSICAL and then comes the SPIRITUAL

Making mankind into God’s own image is a process that involves a lifetime
of trials and tribulations that includes the crucifying of the carnal human mind
and body.




Ray said” man is not a spirit being having a physical experience, but rather man is
a physical being having a spiritual experience.

I agree Jessie,  I used to be an ostrich.

[Dave in Tenn]

A welcome to our new members and posters.

"Spiritual" is what IS "real".  Everything else is temporary.  "Spiritual" is not "imaginary" or "symbolic".  "Spiritual" is what is fundamental and universal, no matter who, when, or where He has placed us.  The Revelation of Jesus Christ (who is the SPIRIT of Prophecy) is and has been and will be intended for every believer in all generations who have Spiritual Eyes and Ears.     

As much as I have hope and evidence that His Elect are "coming out of" the Great Whore and her "daughters" of Catholicism, and Orthodoxism, and Lutheranism, and Calvinism, and all the other daughters of Protestantism--Methodism, and Evangelicalism, and Pentacostalism, and all the other -isms and tangles and influences, and reactions, and schisms and Ecumenicalisms:  I have hope that His elect are coming out of Adventism and all it's many branches, including the WWCOG.