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Author Topic: God's judgements  (Read 4955 times)

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Heidi

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God's judgements
« on: February 10, 2023, 05:58:05 PM »

My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ,

It has been a while since I've posted on the BT site, not because  I've wandered off, but because my journey for digging for the truth has led me to an understanding of God's riches in His word. 

There are so many beautiful breadcrumbs left for us in every generation, words preserved for us to follow the golden thread if God's richness. 

Other brothers and sisters in Christ in every century that have used a pen to try and explain (in our limited use if words) the depths of God's love for us and that everyone will be saved through God's judgments.   When they judgments are in the earth the world will learn righteousness.

"Let the heavens be glad And LET THE EARTH REJOICE; And let men say among the nations, the Lord reigneth! Let the sea roar, and the fullness thereof; Let the fields rejoice, and all that are therein.

Then shall the trees of the wood (people of the earth) SING ALOUD AT THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD,

Because He cometh TO JUDGE THE EARTH. O give thanks unto the Lord, for He is good; For His mercy endureth forever!" (I Chron. 16:31-34).

David's inspired song: "Say among the nations that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: HE SHALL JUDGE THE PEOPLE RIGHTEOUSLY. Let the heavens rejoice, and LET THE EARTH BE GLAD; let the sea roar, and the fullness thereof. Let the field be joyful, and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice before the Lord: for He cometh, for He cometh TO JUDGE THE EARTH: He shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with His truth" (Ps. 96:10-13).

"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, ALL THE EARTH: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. Let the sea (raging, surging multitudes of humanity) roar, and the fullness thereof; THE WORLD, and THEY THAT DWELL THEREIN. Let the floods (armies) clap their hands, let the hills (small kingdoms, third world nations) be joyful together before the Lord; for HE COMETH TO JUDGE THE EARTH: with righteousness shall HE JUDGE THE WORLD, and the people with equity" (Ps. 98:4, 8-9)

In my spiritual walk with God I have always feared judgement because I was limited in my human understanding of the English (my second language) word. 

But "the Greek word as used in the New Testament, is KRISIS, and with the letter 'K' changed to the letter 'C' it is brought directly over into our English language as CRISIS. All of the pressures and trials which produce these times of 'crisis' in our life are simply a working out of God's corrective measures, His judgments. The root from which KRISIS comes is KRINEIN meaning, 'to separate.' And so it is, a crisis is a critical period of time, a decisive moment, a turning point; hence, a separating, choosing, deciding, judging. The very purpose of judgment is to separate you from the old, that you might come into the new. To separate you from selfhood's rebellion, giving you a TURNING POINT, and heading you in the right direction, in the will of God." quote

I thank God that He has opened up my understanding and that I can rejoice and be glad every time I come to a u-bend in my life.

Love in Christ Jesus
Heidi
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indianabob

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2023, 01:00:54 AM »

Hello Heidi,
Thank you for the encouraging message.
Ole Indiana Bob
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Musterseed

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2023, 12:24:58 PM »

Nice to hear from you Heidi, I pray you are well.

ECC.12:14….. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing,
                     whether it be good or whether it be evil.


ECC.3:11…. He ( God) has made everything fitting in it’s season; However, He has
                  Put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His
                  work, that which God does.

What an amazing journey we are having together.

1 Cor.2:9….. But as it is written: 

                    Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
                     Nor have entered into the heart
                     of man,
                     The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.

Isaiah 64:4…. For since the beginning of the world, men have not heard
                     Nor perceived by the ear, nor has the eye seen any God besides
                     You, who acts for the one who waits for Him.
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Mzantsi

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2023, 04:16:46 PM »

How Jehovah judges us is frightening, his judgements are scary. Things such as the raping of women, killing of children and adults, causing people to be mentally ill...schidzophrenia pyschosis and the likes, physical famine and famine of hearing from the Lord, cancer and all sorts of sicknesses.

It appears we may do the same things when we are given power over the nations.

Jesus as a human does not kill,but Jesus as God kills many times.

It's crazy(remarkable,amazing) to think we gonna have such power if we are counted worthy.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2023, 07:28:10 AM by Mzantsi »
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Amo 5:20 (ISV) Will not the Day of the LORD be darkness, and not light—   pitch black at that, without a ray of sunshine?

Dave in Tenn

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2023, 12:33:03 AM »

If that's the "job description", I don't want it.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against Spiritual Wickedness in the heavenlies (minds).  The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty to the breaking down of strongholds.  For God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him be saved. 

Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 
Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 
Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 
Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 
Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 
Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 
Rom 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Whether giving or receiving, that's the "job" of salvation I'm interested in.  The "Day of the Lord" is dark and gloomy, but HIS PRESENCE is light and salvation.  

 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Porter

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2023, 05:22:01 PM »

Mzantsi, just to add to what Dave is saying, everything written in the Old Testament is for those “to whom the end of the ages has come” (1Co 10:11) and is meant for their spiritual admonition and edification. The Kings and armies God used (like a club in His hand) in the OT to violently overthrow and judge the sinful Kingdoms and cities, were also judged for being so arrogant about it. It's not for nothing that Paul states in the following verse: “Therefore, whoever thinks he stands must be careful not to fall!” (1Co 10:12)


All the Old Testament stories are like this. If you are to be a son of God, you must believe and understand that God desires mercy, not killing (Mat_12:7). Otherwise, Jesus warns: “all who take up a sword will perish by a sword” (Mat 26:52). One doesn't even have to own a sword to take a sword up, as this a spiritual condition of the heart. Those with Christ on the night of His arrest were ready to defend Him with violence and death. Peter even cut a man's ear off. As you know, Jesus healed that man's ear, the same man who was with those that were about to arrest Him because Jesus practices what He preaches. He loved His enemies, and then He died for His enemies.



It's true that Jesus had to be crucified, so prophecy could be fulfilled, but it is just as Isaiah says, “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways.” (Isa 55:8)No one took Jesus' life because He laid it down voluntarily (Joh_10:18). Think about it. Jesus laid down His life, so we could learn how to stop resisting evil, how to have mercy, and how to love our enemies, not kill our enemies. “…with his stripes we are healed” (Isa_53:5). What do you suppose will happen when the world learns how to love its enemies at the hand of Christ and His Elect?


Isa 2:1  The vision that Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:


Isa 2:2  In the last days the mountain of the LORD's house will be established at the top of the mountains and will be raised above the hills. All nations will stream to it,


Isa 2:3  and many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us about His ways so that we may walk in His paths." For instruction will go out of Zion and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


Isa 2:4  He will settle disputes among the nations and provide arbitration for many peoples. They will turn their swords into plows and their spears into pruning knives. Nations will not take up the sword against other nations, and they will never again train for war.



Nevertheless, it's not the world's time to learn, so they will keep on killing each other, and they will teach others how to kill too. However, it is a time to learn for those “to whom the end of the ages has come” (1Co 10:11). One does not even need to be a killer to be a real killer, as long as he has hate in his heart, he is a killer already. If God hates His enemies, wouldn't that make Him a killer too? Can one who hates his enemies and kills his enemies make his enemies alive again? Why would the one that hates his enemies want to do that? If the one that hates wanted them alive, he wouldn't have killed him in the first place.



I sincerely hope Mzantsi, that you are beginning to see God as a God of perfect love and mercy. So be perfect, like He is perfect. It's never ok to hate, it's never ok to stop loving, and it's never ever ok to kill.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 05:34:39 PM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Mzantsi

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2023, 08:24:43 PM »

If that's the "job description", I don't want it.
Dave,we not gonna bring wild animals that have grown used to the wild, into subjection, by having them sit down in a classroom and learn about Jesus.

As for me Dave, I look forward to the day of vengeance - payback time!

I sincerely hope Mzantsi, that you are beginning to see God as a God of perfect love and mercy. So be perfect, like He is perfect. It's never ok to hate, it's never ok to stop loving, and it's never ever ok to kill.

Port,I'm not sure what point you trying to make with your post, can't really follow whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with my statement.😀

Did my post suggest that I don't see God as perfect in love and mercy?😀
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 09:31:51 PM by Mzantsi »
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Dynamo54

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2023, 11:41:13 PM »

Porter, very well said, and very powerful.

I was just talking with my wife yesterday that I don’t see a wrathful God…I see a merciful and loving Father and Christ (who are one in all thought). Yes, vengeance is the Lord’s, but that does not mean he is full of wrath…quite the opposite. Some think that God will wreak terror and punishment on those resurrected. I don’t think so! The Father and Christ are love. I think about how much I love my children no matter what, and that God’s love transcends my love by magnitudes.

So, I see God dealing with love and mercy toward all that are resurrected to a second physical life in order to perfect them into sons and daughters. I don’t see wrath and vengeance in the white throne judgement. What would be the purpose? It appears that there will be punishment poured out on those alive at Christ’s coming, but remember that many will die at that time via those punishments. Are we to think that God will then resurrect those same people and punish them a second time in the white throne judgement? I just can’t see it.

Scripture says that God is love, and we see that truth in our lives with answered prayer and forgiveness and spiritual understanding. I don’t worship a God that will burn and punish mankind forever. I worship the God of mercy and love, and try to thank Him daily for being the God that He is.
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Porter

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2023, 07:33:19 AM »

What can I say Mzantsi beside re-read, understand and believe Heidi's post? See how she understood Christ in the flesh in the beginning, but now she no longer knows Christ in the flesh. The others that responded are saying the same thing. If you can see it, then examine your heart and the words coming out of your mouth. Remember Jesus' words.



Luk 6:45  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.


These aren't my words, but I believe them and I've seen them in myself too, back when I only knew Christ in the flesh.



Are we to think that God will then resurrect those same people and punish them a second time in the white throne judgement? I just can’t see it.

Exactly! God does not change. If He is healing His Elect through judgement now, what will be the end of those that are judged later by Christ and His Elect?


2Co 5:18  Now everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and GAVE US the ministry of reconciliation:
2Co 5:19  that is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.


Rom 5:18  So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification for everyone.
Rom 5:19  For just as through one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.



What do you think God means when He says, “Vengeance is Mine”? (Deu 32:35) I can tell you what Paul thinks, as he seems to know what Moses and even Heidi and the rest are SINGING about. This is a “new song” that hardly anyone has heard except those that now know Jesus by His Spirit.


Rom 12:19  Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for His wrath. For it is written: Vengeance belongs to Me; I will repay, says the Lord.


Rom 12:20  But If YOUR ENEMY is hungry, FEED HIM. If he is thirsty, GIVE HIM SOMETHING TO DRINK. For in so doing you will be heaping fiery coals on his head.


Rom 12:21  Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.



Did you get that? God's wrath and vengeance consists of feeding His hungry enemies and giving His thirsty enemies something to drink. I can go on and on about what every verse in this song means, but then it would turn into another one of my walls of texts. So, I can only hope that you too will hear this Song of Moses.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2023, 07:38:19 AM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

seaofglass

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2023, 01:27:26 PM »

God’s judgment take different forms.  It can be physical or mental.

My ex-mother in law finally called me up profusely apologizing for you conduct with me, after having an accident and almost losing her life but never converted

My present mother in law finally caved in and apologized after one month of agonizing paint with gangrene and had her leg cut off.  But not converted

God takes one nation to punish another.

After losing my daughter and seeing the beast in me, I rather lose my leg.

Jesus mentioned some being beaten with more stripes than other.  I wouldn’t wanna be Bill Gates on a mass suicide to destroy God’s creation.

What matters in life is not the experience but the lesson in it and did we learn it. 

All according to His place in time.

Be blessed
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Mzantsi

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2023, 02:44:56 PM »

...and it's never ever ok to kill.

Alright thanks for your response Porter.
As for me,just like Jesus Christ,I will kill.

What can I say,I will only be doing what my Father in Heaven is ALSO doing.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2023, 03:53:55 PM »

If that's the "job description", I don't want it.
Dave,we not gonna bring wild animals that have grown used to the wild, into subjection, by having them sit down in a classroom and learn about Jesus.

As for me Dave, I look forward to the day of vengeance - payback time!

I've seen that "sit down in a classroom and learn about Jesus" comment raised in other corners of the internet.  What a demeaning and carnal minded way to describe the Lake of Fire.  The Lake of Fire is in the presence of the Lamb.  You know--the Lamb that laid down His life?  The Lake of Fire is GOD.  You know--the God who will pour out his Spirit on all Flesh?  And the fruit of the Spirit is:

love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance and ...in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

What is "goodness"?  uprightness of heart and life, kindness, virtue or beneficence.

What is "righteousness"?  equity (of character or act), integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting, justice or the virtue which gives each his due.


And what is "wrath"?  (for both you and Dynamo54, but for different reasons).

G3709
ὀργή
orgē
or-gay'
From G3713; properly desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind)

G3713
ὀρέγομαι
oregomai
or-eg'-om-ahee
Middle voice of apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary (compare G3735); to stretch oneself, that is, reach out after (long for): - covet after, desire.

Wrath IS Desire!  It's acting on DESIRE.  What does God desire for all mankind?  And what does all creation groan for?   

Never again will I let a preacher or theologian sloppily and carnally define for me the most important words of Scripture.  Wrath is one of them.       



 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2023, 04:00:45 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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indianabob

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2023, 04:27:45 PM »

...and it's never ever ok to kill.

Alright thanks for your response Porter.
As for me,just like Jesus Christ,I will kill.

What can I say,I will only be doing what my Father in Heaven is ALSO doing.
=  =  =

Well now mzantsi, maybe you will and maybe you won't.
When you are part of God's government in the future you will have been changed...just a little and will have
a different disposition and way of seeing and understanding.

See Ezekiel 36:24

24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.
=
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
=
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
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Dynamo54

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2023, 04:50:56 PM »

Very very interesting Dave!

I for one cannot wait for God to pour out His wrath (desire) on this world-cosmos-society-humankind. As God’s desire brings ONLY the best for all creation….and He will have/do ALL His pleasure and desire. ❤️
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Porter

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2023, 05:16:10 PM »

Good stuff y'all! This is why fellowships with like-minded people are so valuable in my opinion. And Dave, I never knew that about wrath. It all makes so much more sense now!
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Porter

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2023, 11:02:17 PM »

How Jehovah judges us is frightening, his judgements are scary. Things such as the raping of women, killing of children and adults, causing people to be mentally ill...schidzophrenia pyschosis and the likes, physical famine and famine of hearing from the Lord, cancer and all sorts of sicknesses.

It appears we may do the same things when we are given power over the nations.

Jesus as a human does not kill,but Jesus as God kills many times.

It's crazy(remarkable,amazing) to think we gonna have such power if we are counted worthy.


Those are some pretty serious sins you are accusing God of.  You've accused God of being a killer of children, you've accused God of being a rapist, you've accused God of sending sickness, and you've accused God of sending famine. Yet, you never once backed it up with Scripture. You didn't really just assume that everything you said wouldn't be challenged just because you read some verses that had the words "God" and "darkness" and "destroy" in it, did you?


Now, I'm willing to continue to give you the benefit of the doubt because maybe you have accused God in ignorance. So, listen carefully, as this is very elementary. If God created evil as stated in Isaiah 45:7 and Satan is evil, then that means God created Satan, who was given the job to kill and destroy. (Isa 54:16). Now wouldn't these accusations be better attributed to Satan who "was a murderer from the beginning" (Joh_8:44), rather than God? Because these accusations and this “job description” sound like something right up Satan's alley. Contrast Satan's work with the reason Jesus was revealed.

1Jn_3:8  The one who commits sin is of the Devil, for the Devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose: to destroy the Devil's works.

You begin to get the idea that Satan was created as some kind of adversary for Christ.

H7854
שָׂטָן
śâṭân
saw-tawn'
From H7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch enemy of good: - adversary, Satan, withstand.


Anyhow, I won't belabor this too much, as Ray has written extensively on this topic, so I highly suggest you go and read them. As it is, you are attributing the works of Satan to the works of God, which is pretty serious. And you say these things as someone who claims to be so scared of God's judgments. But maybe that's part of the problem. If you would stop being scared of God's judgments, you would stop trying to scare others. Let me assure you, you ain't gonna find too many in this forum, shaking like a reed in the wind over God's righteous judgements.


1Jn 4:16  And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.

1Jn 4:17  In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; for we are as He is in this world.

1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love.


I want to leave you with one last thing. You mentioned in another thread about someone who had lost their zeal. Now, I get the feeling you sincerely believe you would be doing God a service by killing your enemies. So, I found the perfect quote from one of Ray's paper's that I do hope will make you reconsider.


https://bible-truths.com/lake7.html


THE CHIEF OF SINNERS WAS THE PERFECT LAW KEEPER

Now then for the shocker! In I Tim. 1:15 we read this:

    "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation [in other words, what Paul is about to say is the absolute truth and worthy of considerable contemplation] that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, OF WHOM I AM CHIEF"!!

I covered these verses in great detail in a previous installment. Paul REALLY WAS the WORST, PREEMINENT SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED. Paul was truly "CHIEF of sinners"!! And we read where Paul was once "BLAMELESS in the keeping of the law of Moses."

Now then, WHEN was Paul (1) "BLAMELESS IN LAW KEEPING"? And WHEN was Paul (2) "the CHIEF OF SINNERS"? The answer: AT THE SAME TIME!!!

    WHEN PAUL HAD REACHED THE ZENITH OF TOTAL OBEDIENCE AND ZEAL TO GOD UNDER THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES, IT CAUSED HIM AT THE SAME TIME TO BE THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER!!!

    Paul was both THE MOST PERFECT LAW-KEEPER AND THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER, AT THE SAME TIME!!!

NO WONDER PAUL WROTE:

    "Who also makes us competent dispensers of a NEW covenant, NOT of the letter, but OF the spirit, for the letter KILLS but the spirit gives LIFE" (II Cor. 3:6).

The Old Covenant written in Ten Commandments on stone tablets was an "ADMINISTRATION OF DEATH" (Ver. 7). And the letter will ALWAYS KILL:

    "They shall put you out of the synagogues; yea, the time comes, that whosoever KILLS YOU will think that he does God service [by following the law of Moses under the Old Covenant]" (John 16:2).

To prove to God his GREATEST ZEAL, Paul persecuted and slaughtered the church, which was legal for him to do under the authority of the High Priest, Chief Priests, Elders and Council at the Temple in Jerusalem, of whom Jesus Himself said, "They SIT IN MOSES SEAT." And it was this very ZEAL FOR GOD that also made him the world’s WORST SINNER! Unbelievable! UNBELIEVABLE!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

But we must believe it—it is the Word of God!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2023, 11:15:56 PM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Dynamo54

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2023, 01:56:39 AM »

Porter, really appreciate your helping Mzantsi understand some basic things.

One thing you said caught my attention and I wanted to discuss it.

You stated that Satan was created as an adversary for Christ. Do you have a scripture for that? I know he is the adversary, but I see him as an adversary for us humans and not God. I don’t believe that anything can be an adversary to God because he is omnipotent. Satan is definitely our adversary and there is not way we can combat him and his minions without Christ in us….or else we lose every time.

I have been thinking that humans couldn’t easily understand “angels” or evil messengers until our present age where we have programmable machines and robots. Mankind thinks (at least it seems to me) that angels and demons have great power…and maybe that is so. However, none of them can do anything, or go past the bounds that God has set. They can’t even find out or understand certain things unless God allows it. Remember the scripture where Paul said even the angels want to know.

So I look at it that God has “programmed” them according to His desire and they cannot do otherwise. Understanding programming as we do makes me think that God doesn’t have to actively monitor the spirit world as he as most likely already set the bounds and knows the precise time for everything.

Just my thoughts. 😀
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Porter

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2023, 01:17:56 PM »

Good question Dynamo. Of course, God doesn't have any natural Adversaries that could possibly do anything outside what God knew would happen or intended or caused to happen. However, there is wisdom in creating an Adversary such as Satan and hopefully, I can explain truthfully as to how creating an Adversary for or against Christ is beneficial and good. I'm obligated to tell you that Ray has already covered all of this. But since you asked me a legit question about something I said, I don't want to cop-out on you. So, I'll simply be explaining in my words how I understand Ray's teaching on this subject.  However, maybe this is good for me in that it opens me up to correction which would lead me to a better understanding. I learn new things all the time from everyone here, and I'm as much a student of Christ as anyone. Also, if my words seem disjointed, it may be the thryoid meds I'm on. The meds tend to give me a fair bit of brain fog.


Remember when Jesus fasted 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness for the express purpose of being tempted by the Devil?

Mat 4:1  Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil.
Mat 4:2  After He had fasted 40 days and 40 nights, He was hungry.

As an Adversary, (or opponent as the Greek calls it), one of Satan's “duties” was to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Obviously, Satan failed at getting Jesus to succumb to sin. It makes Satan sound like a terrible opponent, doesn't it? Especially considering Jesus was never meant to sin. But does that mean it was easy for Jesus to overcome all of Satan's temptations? The trials, temptations, afflictions, and tribulation Jesus endured were hard for Him as they are for us, even harder for Him, I imagine. Furthermore, the things Jesus endured have become our judgments, to make us perfect like He is perfect. And so, Jesus endured these things, so He could sympathize with our weaknesses to help us in our time of need.


Heb 4:14  Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens--Jesus the Son of God--let us hold fast to the confession.
Heb 4:15  For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tested in every way as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16  Therefore let us approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us at the proper time.


Equally important is the fact that Jesus overcame evil WITHOUT SINNING, thereby destroying the works of Satan. Guess what? Jesus also made it possible for us to do the same thing.

1Jn 4:17…because as he is, so are we in this world.


The many that Satan does succeed in getting to sin, the very sin of the world, is for His Elect's benefit.

1Jn 3:9  Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10  This is how God's children--and the Devil's children--are made evident. Whoever does not do what is right is not of God, especially (not exclusively) the one who does not love his brother.
1Jn 3:11  For this is the message you have heard from the beginning: we should love one another,
1Jn 3:12  unlike Cain, who was of the EVIL ONE and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

You begin to see how the role of Satan the Adversary is very beneficial to not only opposing Jesus and everything Jesus stands for, but to those that follow Him. Everything God created always has a good and beneficial purpose, even His enemies.

1Jn 3:14  We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
1Jn 3:15  Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.



So, even though our so-called brother hates us and murders us with that same hate, we have to love him by doing good to him, thereby overcoming and destroying the works of the Adversary in our lives. In this way, we are becoming sons of the Most High, just as Jesus is the Son of the Most High.

Luk 6:35  But love your enemies, do what is good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is gracious to the ungrateful and evil.
Luk 6:36  Be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.


Paul, an Apostle of Christ, is saying the same thing.


Rom 12:19  Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for His wrath [Greek: desire]. For it is written: Vengeance belongs to Me; I will repay, says the Lord. Rom 12:20  But If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For in so doing you will be heaping fiery coals on his head.
Rom 12:21  Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.


Your righteous INWARD act of love toward your hate filled Satan influenced brother, will not only save you now, but it will save the world with a fierce, passionate, heart and mind transforming HOLY fiery love in a “lake” of safety and security. And they will feel a heartfelt shame when they see when they see you give love so graciously despite of all their hate.


Psa 6:10  All my enemies will be ashamed and shake with terror; they will turn back and suddenly be disgraced.


Just like Jesus' righteous act toward you and me. When we were former enemies of Christ, and of the cross, where Jesus laid down His life for us to also rescue you and me from Satan's evil works of hate and sin and murder and death. I remember the shame I felt when I realized Jesus loved me by graciously dying for me, dying because of me, and then the realization that He died with me as a mortal Himself. None of this would be possible without Jesus first creating an evil Adversary and his children who sought to murder Him, which brought out the best in our Lord. Talk about truly inspiring, and talk about being worthy of a name above every name! I can't imagine the utter shame I will feel if I were to fail at loving my enemies just like Jesus did, knowing what I know now about how the WAY Jesus loves me. It truly would have been better to not have known any of this.


I know this is probably way more than you asked for Dynamo, so please forgive me for being so long-winded. I do hope I've answered your question. But I also want Mzantsi to know that I'm merely trying to feed his hunger, and quench his thirst, where with I too was fed in my hunger and given something to drink in my thirst. Truth be told, I need Jesus every day, all day because I can't overcome my sin without Him. This has been made painfully evident to me that without His nourishing life – giving body, I will die a second time in unfathomable age abiding shame and regret without having loved Him back. What better way to love Jesus, what better way to overcome my thirst and hunger, than by faithfully obeying Jesus and earnestly helping another in need. I can't, I better not have any ill will towards Mzantsi just because he said some words on the internet.


Whether Mzantsi does or whether he doesn't receive me or you or anyone here in Jesus' name, while it is still called today, Jesus will eventually prove His love for him. He will do so by giving His life to him in the most spectacular fashion imaginable.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 01:38:09 PM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Musterseed

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2023, 03:21:18 PM »

From the Myth of free Will , part C

To answer you question Dynamo54, and for all our admonition.

Gen.3:1- now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which
THE LORD GOD HAD MADE.

Job 26:13- By His Spirit He( God) has garnished ( adorned ) the heavens;
His hand has formed the crooked serpent.

Rev.12:9- and the great DRAGON, was cast out ,that old SERPENT, called the DEVIL,
and SATAN.

RAY,,,,, Is this not the same crooked serpent and dragon mentioned in Isa.27:1
which God shall yet punish?

In that day, the Lord with His sore and grate and strong sword shall punish
Leviathan the piercing serpent even Liviathan, that crooked serpent; and He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

The word leviathan means serpent.
The The word dragon means figuratively the constellation of the dragon,
a sea serpent.
God is not going to punish a constellation in the sky or a fish in the sea.
This is speaking of that great and wicked spirit. Satan, Satan the devil, that old serpent the dragon, the serpent, the crooked serpent, the destroyer, the accuser,
the ADVERSARY.

YE need to study The Myth Of Free Will Pt C.

You will learn , if God gives you understanding.

The purpose for which God created evil.
Jobs trials answers many Enigmas
The Kingdom of Satan and his role as an adversary.

Also, quote from Ray, “ here are all the Biblical example of what God ALLOWS.
1 Thes. 2:4-   But as we were allowed ( GK. approved) of God to be put in trust
with the gospel.
That’s it! That’s it , that is the totality of everything that God allows.
God does not allow anything to happen: God is the ULTIMATE CAUSE of all things that happen.
Now a few biblical examples of what God causes to happen.
KEEP READING —— MOFW Pt. C


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Dave in Tenn

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Re: God's judgements
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2023, 09:43:38 PM »

1Co 13:13  So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Porter, you've added to my faith, hope, and love.  As an emotionally stunted old curmudgeon, that's much appreciated.  
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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