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Author Topic: Dennis  (Read 2287 times)

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Daddysgirl.2

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Dennis
« on: May 20, 2024, 07:11:40 AM »

Good day all.

Just a quick one, would be offensive if I out of curiosity asked what kind of man Ray was? I have valid reasons including scriptural ones for this question. Yes, we are to imitate Christ in all ways.
A bit forward maybe, but how was our teacher like? Especially since he often referred to you as his helpmate for character building.😉

"Take the higher road..etc"

Been pondering on this for a while. Nothing sinister
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arion

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Re: Dennis
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2024, 09:02:46 AM »

I’m not Dennis but in watching all his videos and listening to his audio recordings testified to his genuineness and sincerity.  I didn’t agree with everything he taught and still don’t on a few minor things but they are indeed minor.  I’m in my 60’s and of all the pastors and teachers I have paid attention to over the years there was none finer.  I’m sure those that spent personal time with him could attest to not only his qualities but his faults also but we all have them.
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Daddysgirl.2

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Re: Dennis
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2024, 11:05:48 AM »

Thank you for your response Arion.
I have no interest in an idol, human, copper made or of the heart. Only ever spoke about Ray here and outside this forum I'd just refer people to his writings sometimes, without even mentioning his name, I'd seen too much human idol worship in Christendom that I cringed when some would go read come back and say 'this guy of yours' afterwards. He was not my guy. Just someone I found near perfect in his teachings, changed my life as I already had too many doubts about much of Christian doctrine. Would refer instead of attempt to teach cos I'm not much of a teacher of anything so felt I'd do his writings injustice if I even attempted to. Paul refers a lot to the earlier churches imitating his conduct in his letters, so I wanted to know him a little better outside of his teachings and personal life which should be just that, private.

Thank you again.

Used to dream(and I'm a dreamer-doer) of one day making one of the conferences, yes, all the way from South Africa. Thank goodness most of them were posted, transcribed and later youtubed.
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arion

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Re: Dennis
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2024, 06:48:01 PM »

I have always said as much as I respect Ray he really taught me nothing.  What Ray was, was the conduit that God used to teach me truth in his time.  I first came across Ray's tithing paper and as much as I wanted to I couldn't argue against what he said and I really tried.  Then wanting to read another paper I started on the Lake of Fire series and in part #1 when Ray said there wasn't a 'hell', I thought him to be a heretic and quit coming to the site figuring that even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.

Several months later I 'accidentally' stumbled across the website again and started reading the LOF series and the scales started to fall off.  First time I thought him to be a false teacher and second time God started to reveal his truth to my spirit.  The difference was that it was God's time for me to start understanding some of these truths and truly their are few teachers and websites indeed that do teach the full gospel of salvation for all of God's creatures in their own order.

Even today God brings whom he will to the forum and the website and maybe only 1 out of 100 glean something that sticks with them but it is enough.  Although I never met Ray I do consider him a spiritual father in the flesh but I wouldn't ever have said that he was my teacher or pastor.  He was the willing vessel and God did the teaching through him and even though Ray has long since passed yet he is still teaching today those that God is working with in this age.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 06:50:16 PM by arion »
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Dennis
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2024, 10:51:15 PM »

What you see on the videos is pretty much what Ray was like. He had an IQ of 162 and could soak-up all this information. We were best friends.

Here is a short 14 second video of Ray at home (unlisted YouTube) https://youtu.be/yKyZkuZlvxs
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Dynamo54

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Re: Dennis
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2024, 11:47:46 PM »

I never met Ray. In fact I was not brought to Bible Truths and Ray’s writings and videos until 7 years after his death. But I have come to know Ray over the last 5 years, just as if I was there with him at his Bible studies and conferences.

 Ray was loving…you can see that in watching the videos. Ray was also brave. The kind of bravery that allowed Ray to in essence take on the “churchianity” and bogus “ministers” of God in the world. You don’t think that took bravery? He was brave because he KNEW that the Almighty was leading him into understanding and truth! I no longer wonder if the teachings on Bible Truths are true…I also KNOW that they are. What a mighty work God did through Ray in what is in reality a very short ministry.

I came out of over 30 years around or in the Worldwide Church of God…with their apostles and evangelists, and I thought all the teachings were true. When I witnessed the excesses of apostle and ministerial lavish spending I told myself that Jesus Christ is in charge of His Church and He will deal with all in His on way and time. I like others suffered under the three tithes and kept all of the holy days and sabbaths, but never ever felt I could meet the stringent law-keeping in spirit that was required, so I was usually internally miserable because I knew that God knew my inner thoughts, whereas men looked at the outward law keeping and thought of me as a good Christian. So I eventually left (my first love?)


Ray never said he was an apostle, or an evangelist, or to my knowledge ever said he was a minister! He was a teacher. God slowly led me to see all of the erroneous beliefs that I still held to even after leaving WWCG 20 years before (looking behind me at the voice?). Believe me, I am still somewhat in awe of the depth of understanding that God has presented to the world through Ray!

Ray was also humble. To me that is evident in watching the videos and reading the writings. Again, looking at the tremendous breadth of the understanding and truths that have been revealed through Ray could cause one to really be vain.  I know that WWCG ministers (Herbert W. Armstrong) reaked of vanity for what he (and the church) thought were truths from God. Ray’s humility was evident for all to see, if they wanted to.

Of course I, like many, wish Ray had spoken more on a variety of subjects…but evidently he finished the works that Christ had for him to finish or he would not have died. So, Christ through Ray and Bible Truths left a work that I never get tired of reviewing and reading and watching. Still learning from all of the material years after it was written. Truth is timeless (which word Ray would say is an oxymoron and the better word is eternal).

I have no problem at all saying I have learned reams from Ray…knowing all the time that it is Christ using that vessel to teach me what I need to know, but more importantly what I need to do.

So DaddysGirl, I hope this helps you a little bit understand what Ray was like…even though I never met him 😀😀.
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The Eternal, He is God!

Daddysgirl.2

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Re: Dennis
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2024, 07:01:52 AM »

Thanks so much Arion, Dynamite and Dennis.
I share in the sacred nature of your relationship with Ray seeing as we were only but a virtual fold of his, I read somewhere that he was very protective of us, his own words.
Dennis of course sharing more would be years of a long-term m bond of friendship broken, so I appreciate your warm response, it will suffice.

Testimonials from some of our elders here, women, youngfolf, anyone really is what my spirit feeds of.

Just hoped to have a blueprint of godly living in today's society from my teacher.

Thank you
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