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[SandyFla]

I am having a terrible time forgiving someone.

Back in January 2004, we had a repairman come to our house. He didn't know what he was doing and got extremely angry. His boss told me that the man had been working for him for 15 years, and he knows how to do the job. After 3 or 4 days of enduring his temper tantrums, I'd had it. As soon as he left, I called another company, who sent a repairman out and fixed the problem in a matter of minutes. I then called the other man's boss and told him we no longer needed his services.

Immediately I began fantasizing about the most vicious things I'd like to do to that incompetent worker. Truth be told--I despised him with a passion, more than I ever thought it possible to hate another human being. I know that to feel that kind of hatred is equal to murder in God's eyes (I John 3:15). I also know that if I don't forgive him, God won't forgive me (Matthew 6:15/Mark 11:26).

For nearly 3 years now, I've done everything I can think of to try to forgive this man--from making a conscious effort to quoting Scripture to begging God for help. I've even tried to feel sorry for him, because anyone who acted like he did would have to be a very miserable person. It works for awhile, and I can think about him without any hard feelings. But other times, I'll remember what he was like, and all that old hatred comes back to the point where I don't WANT to forgive him.

But I do.

Can someone please tell me how I can forgive him once and for all? Or, have I already forgiven him, but sometimes my emotions get out of hand? (As I said in another thread, DARN those hormones!) I don't even have to think about him for very long before it starts ... I'll think of him one second, and the next second, BOOM! I'm already fantasizing about taking vengeance. Then I catch myself and try to stop. What's wrong with me?

Sandy

[mongoose]

Actually, if anyone has an answer to this, I'd love to hear it too.  I get to a point where I think I've forgiven someone...and then I am reminded of what they did or they do something new....and yikes, I'm angry not at only the current situation but for all that past stuff that I've supposedly forgiven too.  I try to stop myself, and trying to see things from their perspective sometimes does the trick.  Then again, next time it may come rushing back....Is there an end to this when you can be sure you've forgiven someone?

mongoose

[orion77]

Hello Sandy,

Perfectly understand what you are talking about.  This is a hard lesson to learn, at least it was for me.  I take a step back and focus on the faith God has given me, and know the day will come that those people will come to true repentence and be humbled by God.  Knowing this will happen in the future to these people, I take it on faith, and see them now as if it has already happened to them.  Of course we cant tell them that, or they will get even more angry,  .  

Knowing that it is not what comes into us that defile us, but what comes out.  So, for me I ask God in prayer to keep His peace through the Spirit growing, so certain people, actions or words can not take dominion over the simpleness of His truth.

The words Jesus spoke saying, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do", is a goal to achieve in this life, and for me it would be impossible without His Spirit.  Knowing that God loved me first, speaks volumes of the character of God.

Possibly the repairman was going through some hard times himself and had him out of sorts for awhile, who knows but God.  Just forget about it and move on, are words easier said than done.  Look for the lesson from it, He has a way of hiding meaningful things in the most horrible of circumstances.

God bless,

Gary

[Patrick]

Sandy, I don't believe there is anything "wrong with you."
I have to keep telling myself (and I don't have any Scripture to back it up with right now) that the adversary will do anything to get us to fall. And, God created the adversary.
I can be having a great day, and someone nearly crashes into me or is rude/vulgar; I can explode in a rage so fast. I hate myself for not being able to control my temper.
I have to keep praying and praying about things such as this. God has not answered my prayer at this time, so that tells me it's not in His will for me at this time. I want this junk to go away so bad. 

I also have my moments with not forgiving, I wish I could forget. When some of the bad memories come up and I get myself all riled up, down on my knees I go.

I'll be praying for you, please pray for me.
Love ya
Patrick

[Ward]

Sandy:

Here's my 2-cents on this...

You have forgiven this man.  The feelings that you have had since are something else entirely.  God is teaching you something.  (No, I don't know what... Could be many things.)  Someday he might actually cause you to know what this has been about.  I'd bet that its something much bigger than the "...3 or 4 days of enduring his temper tantums..." 

I have felt some of the very same things you write about.  "Vicious things" "Dispised...with a passion".   And for much longer than 3 years.  I can be a very very hard person. (I pray that God is not like me...) 

"What's wrong with me?" - You are marred.  AND BEING RESHAPED BY THE ULTIMATE POTTER.

One question for you... If somehow you come to the conclusion that you have actually forgiven this man, will you remember that it wasn't you. but God?

Now, I know all of that was rather short, but I will write more if you want to communicate about it.

Ward

[angie]

Hi Sandy,

what you experience is no different from what anyone else experiences at some time in their life or other if they care to admit it. When someone behaves a certain way towards you, you are a victim of their actions or words.

The amount of time you spend thinking ill of them is directly proportionate to how deeply those actions or words hurt or offended you on some level.[even if you are not aware of it] The man obviously has a problem, and he has passed it on to you.

When I was a victim of an unpleasant experience, I realised that for every moment of thought that I gave it afterwards, every single one of those moments I remained a victim, thinking bad thoughts and all the while becoming more bitter and and angry. [was I hurting him? NO, only myself] I realised that the only way to really stop it all WAS to forgive, let it go. I Made myself think about something positve after every negative [doesn't matter if they are connected] so that every negative turned into a positive thought and took my mind away from bad thoughts.

Also, I myself had a very hard time dealing with my own temper years ago, not to mention a foul mouth when things went wrong,  it's not a very pleasant way to live either, in fact it's downright horrible. The man is more to be pitied than scorned I would say since he appears to just as much a victim himself. The fact that you had this experience with him, seemed to 'get over it' and then revert back to it at a later date suggests that you may have subconsciously made him your mental scapegoat for anything else that triggers a 'down' period.

You are learning from this experience. You will never be quick to judge others for feeling the way you do just now because you UNDERSTAND what it feels like to have difficulty controlling them. Instead you will sympathise and be more tolerant. Are we not to 'judge angels'? won't we need compassion and understanding for that?

Hope this helps in some small way

Angie
x

[ned]

Hi Sandy,
Like you say, you probably have forgiven this man, but emotions do get the best of us.

We are carnal and therefore our emotions exist to serve US.  I find to please God, we need to put our emotions on the back-burner and look to Jesus. 
You say you've asked God to help you forgive this man. 

I was searching "forgive" in e-sword and this verse caught my attention.

James 5:15(CEV)  If you have faith when you pray for sick people, they will get well. The Lord will heal them, and if they have sinned, he will forgive them.

This angry man probably needs your prayers. 

God bless you Sandy.
Your sister,
Marie

PS I'm struggling to hit "post" because I'm not sure the above verse applies, but to me if this man is so angry, he indeed is sick. Besides, anyone can use a prayer, and everyone needs God's help! ok...i'm hitting post...

[chuckusa]

Sandy,

This burden has a purpose.

The influences of satan in our lives, must manifest itself. You know, he greatly desires pain and misery in your life. This man I think has simply become the focal point of this particular manifestation. Something about this man just really got under your skin, and it's being used over and over against you. I always try to remember that darkness always strikes at our weakest points, therefore making us seemingly powerless to combat it. You may have forgiven this man in your heart, but our minds have other purposes unbeknowing to us at times.

I would treat this as an attack, and rebuke satan continuously when these feelings come to you. It sounds as if this poor man has a rather pathetic life. Living with that degree of anger and strife, so pathetic in fact, that he is being used by the adversary to inflict pain upon others... is a really terrible position to be in.

Maybe this is simply Gods way of pointing out a weakness to you. It seems to have gotten your attention...Maybe this isn't an issue of forgiving HIM. He is just being used by the adversary to exploit a weakness that you have, that only God can overcome. If you take that particular PERSON out of the equation, what are you left with? Does it expose a more fundemental root cause for this anger?

I'm not trying to psycoanalyze here, only going by what I have seen in other people. It just seems like the adversary will often attack in this way, sneaking in on a past event, so as to conceal his true intent and motive. It's very confusing, and I deal with this all the time in my life.

Look past this man, in your prayer. I don't think he is really the issue, even though I know it may seem like he is. I've had to think like this many times to understand what was really going on in my life. I hope that helps somehow, I really do understand what you are going through.

Love and prayers Sandy,
Chuck

[kennymac]

Hi Sandy,

Knowing that Christ was spit on, mocked, humiliated and beaten to death for me, keeps me very humble. When I find myself becoming offended, I quickly think of what Jesus went through at Calvary and suddenly what ever I'm facing seems very trivial. This response is not something that came naturally to me, it is a technique that through constant application became a part of me.

 Hatred, unforgiveness, bitterness are all designed to take us out of love.

That is Satan's goal, he wants to destroy, us and fill us with every negative emotion.

Remember.... we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

When you find yourself in this state, try singing your favorite song, worship God, sing praises to His name. Keep praising him until the yoke is broken. Do not allow yourself to replay negative experiences, you control your thoughts, guard them. Do whatever it is you know to stay in peace.

God bless you,

Mary Ann

PS  God has put the most difficult, proud, unpolished individuals around me. Why???  I used to ask God why all the time. Then the revelation came, if I never experienced hate how would I learn to forgive.

[SandyFla]

Thanks to everyone who responded to me. You've all given me something to think about.

I'm just checking in before the end of my day, so I'll respond in more detail in the next few days.

God bless you all!

Love,
Sandy

[SandyFla]

Well, I’ve read and reread each of your replies and would like to respond to some of them. (If I don’t respond to yours, please don’t take that to mean you weren’t helpful, because each of you were!)

Patrick – I can relate when you say, “I can be having a great day, and someone nearly crashes into me or is rude/vulgar; I can explode in a rage so fast.” I can be the same way. It’s weird how sometimes the littlest thing will set me off, but at another day or time, I would’ve just shrugged it off or laughed about it.

Ward – I really do think I have forgiven him, as you said, but what God is teaching me in all this, I have yet to discover. As for your question (“If somehow you come to the conclusion that you have actually forgiven this man, will you remember that it wasn't you, but God?”), my answer is Yes. I can’t forgive him (or anyone) on my own; I tried that. Didn’t work.

Angie – You could be right that I’ve made him my mental scapegoat. Any time I go off on my “man-hating” rants, he’s one of the first to pop into my head. All those old feelings from the past get drudged back up, and the hurt is still there.

Marie – Yes, he does need my prayers. As I said, if he’s that miserable, he is to be pitied.

Chuck – You said, “Something about this man just really got under your skin, and it's being used over and over against you.” Yep. You hit the nail on the head! It reminds me of all the emotional abuse I endured with my first boyfriend, and how I wish I would’ve kicked that repairman out like I eventually did to my b/f. If I had it to do over again—give me just 5 minutes with him—I’d get all my anger out and be done with it. (OK, it’s starting again … UUUUGGGGH!!!)

Mary Ann – You said, “When you find yourself in this state, try singing your favorite song, worship God, sing praises to His name. Keep praising him until the yoke is broken.” Looks like it’s time for me to start doing that now, LOL!

Sandy

[sansmile]

Hi all,

Don't know if this will help you but what helps me forgive is God inside me saying:


                       "Hate the sin not the man"

                     Sandie

[chuckt]

I am having a terrible time forgiving someone.

Back in January 2004, we had a repairman come to our house. He didn't know what he was doing and got extremely angry. His boss told me that the man had been working for him for 15 years, and he knows how to do the job. After 3 or 4 days of enduring his temper tantrums, I'd had it. As soon as he left, I called another company, who sent a repairman out and fixed the problem in a matter of minutes. I then called the other man's boss and told him we no longer needed his services.

Immediately I began fantasizing about the most vicious things I'd like to do to that incompetent worker. Truth be told--I despised him with a passion, more than I ever thought it possible to hate another human being. I know that to feel that kind of hatred is equal to murder in God's eyes (I John 3:15). I also know that if I don't forgive him, God won't forgive me (Matthew 6:15/Mark 11:26).

For nearly 3 years now, I've done everything I can think of to try to forgive this man--from making a conscious effort to quoting Scripture to begging God for help. I've even tried to feel sorry for him, because anyone who acted like he did would have to be a very miserable person. It works for awhile, and I can think about him without any hard feelings. But other times, I'll remember what he was like, and all that old hatred comes back to the point where I don't WANT to forgive him.

But I do.

Can someone please tell me how I can forgive him once and for all? Or, have I already forgiven him, but sometimes my emotions get out of hand? (As I said in another thread, DARN those hormones!) I don't even have to think about him for very long before it starts ... I'll think of him one second, and the next second, BOOM! I'm already fantasizing about taking vengeance. Then I catch myself and try to stop. What's wrong with me?

Sandy

love.

most likly you have forgiven him but not yourself.  forget about it.



In order to renovate the house, someone in Japan tore open the wall. Japanese houses normally have a hollow space between the wooden walls. When tearing down the walls, he found that there was a lizard stuck there because a nail from outside was hammered into one of its feet. He saw this, felt pity, and at the same time he was curious. When he checked the nail, turns out, it was nailed 10 years ago when the house was first built.


What happened?


The lizard had survived in such a position for 10 years! In a dark wall partition for 10 years without moving, it is impossible and mind boggling. Then he wondered how this lizard survived for 10 years without moving a single step--since its foot was nailed!


So he stopped his work and observed the lizard, what it had been doing, and what and how it had been eating. Later, not knowing from where it came, appeared another lizard, with food in its mouth.

Ahh! He was stunned and at the same time, touched deeply. Another lizard had been feeding the stuck one for the past 10 years...

Such love, such a beautiful love! Such love happened with this tiny creature...
What can love do? It can do wonders! Love can perform miracles!
Just think about it; one lizard had been feeding the other one
untiringly for 10 long years, without giving up hope on its partner.

If a small creature like a lizard can love like this...
just imagine how we can love if we try!

[keys2heaven]

Sandy,

I was involved with a discussion this past weekend where we discussed the recent school shootings. We talked at lengths about how the Amish community almost immediately forgave not only the family of the shooter, but the shooter himself. In fact, they have wrapped their arms around the family of the shooter. Can you imagine!

Most in our group agreed that while this "act" of forgiveness was demonstrated, there will be an emotional process to be worked out. Some feel that the Amish will feel the process of forgiveness for years.

This brings up a good questionn; how does one PROVE forgiveness? If you forgive in your HEART (where Christ now dwells with and IN you), doesn't that mean that you have truly forgiven? Are you to now become an "emotional corpse" because of the act of forgiveness?

Perhaps, just perhaps, this man embodied someone or something else in your life. Maybe this person reminds you of something that happened long ago and God is now using this event to focus you on it. There could be many reasons.

How many of us will say that we forgave someone, only to walk the other direction when we see that person on the street or in a hallway at church? When Jesus forgave, did He then avoid us?

What if God were to have you go to this man and tell him how his attitude affected you. What if you then told him that you forgave him and have been praying for him? What if he then broke down and cried? What if you were being directed to God to minister to him in his time of need? What if? What if?

Remember, it is the constant submission of our "will" to do that of God's will that causes the disconnect. Since emotions are tied to our "will", this can be a painful process, but one that God has already worked out. Remember that His plan IS perfect!

[SandyFla]

Hi all,

Don't know if this will help you but what helps me forgive is God inside me saying:


                       "Hate the sin not the man"

                     Sandie

See, that's where my problem lies. It's hard for me to separate the man from the sin; i.e., "hate the sin but love the sinner." To me, what someone does is them, a part of who they are.

"Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
God, through Jesus Christ."

But when, O Lord?

Sandy

[sansmile]

Sandy,
These people don't even know there are sinning, because they are BLIND. God has deluded them.


Proverbs 16:1
The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Proverbs 16:33
The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Proverbs 20:24
Man's goings  are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?


Romans 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

They cannot see the truth, because God has blinded them to it.

Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Matthew 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Matthew 13:16
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God, but by seeing that seeing they see not, can help us hate the sin and love the sinner, as God loves us all.

God Bless
Sandie

[Marius]

MT 18:3 and said, `Verily I say to you, if ye may not be turned and become as the children, ye may not enter into the reign of the heavens;
MT 18:4 whoever then may humble himself as this child, he is the greater in the reign of the heavens.

Hi,

I suppose we all have this ability of when something happen in your life, either good or bad, it starts playing of in the mind and it can have an effect for years. I am not a person that says that certain things changed me life and so on, however, it seems as I am getting older and the testosterone lower, my reaction to many things is slower and more calculated. I use to react to quickly and with too much of a good or bad reaction to the situation.
I have learned that when I make a dicision to do something, because your are only human and does not have the all the info to make the decission, your action is not totally 100% appropriate.
What does a child do (I would say somebody below 7 years)? Say for instance he did something wrong. His dad now may tells him to "fix it or pick it up or go to his room". Whatever the parent now thinks is appropriate for this situation. Normally this kid accept  this  interference in his ways and will do what the parent wants. After maybe an hour he has totally forgotten and this and starts playing again.
Seems to be the reason why we can not remember things before 7 years of age.  As the child becomes older and his mind more developed, he would sometimes rebell against this or say, stamp his feet, run away to a friend etc. So we have lost the ability to forgive and forget. Maybe we think about it to much rather than accept the situation, learn the lesson, forgive and move on.
I am TRYING, (the best word to think), to base my reaction now on to rather be slow te react or not to let any situation play too much af a large influence on my thinking. It does cloud the mind I will admid, but limit the "air time" this experience enjoys.

That is why Jesus said that " if ye may not be turned and become as the children, ye may not enter into the reign of the heavens;"
This is maybe a simple solution to your problem, but I try most of the time, when it comes to situations that can have an effect, accept it and move on!

MARIUS

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Sandie

Your selection of Scriptures for me could also illistrate that we do not have free...uncaused will!

For me the Resurrection and Forgiveness are similar in as much Jesus said...I am the Resurrection and the Life John 11:25 so for me HE in like manner is the pardon/forgiveness for sins. I know we are told to forgive and our hurt feelings challege us to think we have not forgiven when we remember our hurts and sufferings with the temptation to be angry, bitter or to harbor unlon=ving thoughts. This is perhaps how we come to understand that WE can not forgive... it is not in US to forgive... it is in Jesus Christ ALONE....

Meanwhile our focus is to get rid of our feelings of anger, hurt, , pain etc....that lead us to doubting that we have not forgiven fully enough or completely enough....when in fact we can not forgive at all....we can do nothing! Jesus Himself said of Himself that He could do nothing without God so after we have got this figured out through enough painful struggle and experience, and that will only be when God decides we are ready....then we can go to our HIghpriest in our time of need in the realization that we fail, we are weak and liable to temptation and request Gods Mercy, Grace and unmerited favor....

Hebrews 4:15,16  For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and have a shared feeling with OUR weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of temptation,but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning. 16 Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly dreaw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners) that we may receive Mercy for OUR failures and find Grace to help in good time for every need, approapriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it...

....for me  God alone causes the need and the timing as HE ALONE knows just when we need it...until then, our hurts and memories train us in patience, long-suffering, endurance and faith...

That is how I see so far anyway...through the perspective of Caused will not Free will....(ref Ray's MYTH OF FREE WILL study notes).....and here is where I could repeat your quotes Sandie!

Arcturus

[blissfulkitten]

This is how I'm learning to forgive.  I know that we will be judged by how we judge others.  Let it go.  It's not our burden to bear.  But KNOW that God will judge accordingly.  If the person realizes the way they treat others, and then repents, I'm good with that.  We may never know what those that have wronged us feel, what kind of life they've had, what problems they're coping with...  I remind myself how horrible they must feel about themselves.  Take pity.  This person didn't know you personally, so he sounds like he is either uncomfortable with himself to treat others so badly, or just has no conscience.  Don't take it personally.  Ask God to help you to forgive.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi blissfulkitten. I love your Avatar name! 

I have learned that the way I judge others is the way I judge my self! Hence the Truth that by the judgement we meter out to others, so too will that judgment be metered out to us!

But what about Paul's understanding of this very matter?  1Co 4:3  But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

To be judged of you or of mans judgment is exactly that judgement that was leveled against Job by his friends of whom God was not pleased!

Same can be said with any advise we give others as was given to Job by his friends, who spoke not right things about God, as Job sat in the ashes of his pain, grief, aching and despair!

Doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, is so said, precisely because doing unto others is as doing unto you!

When and as you see the sick, angry, resentful others, or suffer their ignorant lashings of anger against you,  they are simply images of you as you were in the valley of the shadow of death before the beauty and glory of the resurrection to life and Truth Wisdom and understanding that shines within the vast empathy that says blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy!

Welcome to the Forum. There is a lot going on here! ...it's all good. ~

Arc