Harry I hope that you are not feeling that we are picking on you, that is not the intent. We are challenging your thinking a bit.
Thank you Rodger and George for your supportive replies. I was beginning to be afraid that I might not be understood and end up getting myself kicked off of here. I am in no way here to bring division or discord. I have been dealing with these matters in my own personal journey to the truth for many years. I already held many of the beliefs that Ray teaches before I ever came across his website ( about 2wks ago).
Now for Antawian and Marques, First of all...Thank you.. for expressing your questions and concerns. As far as this being a subject that Ray deals with directly in his writings...it's not...but...it is also in no way contradictory to what he teaches. And I'm sure that Ray wants us...and all of us should want... to follow on to as complete an understanding of God's plan for us as our finite minds can comprehend until we behold our Father face to face
I think if I elaborate a little bit more it might clear up your concerns. Let me share something that helped me tremendously in the understanding of what I'm convinced... God is doing. Think of good and evil ..as negative and positive energy. Now we know that everything that exists was contained within God...at the very beginning ( and still is). Because God is all in all. But it helps me to look at the core of the process. We have God with infinite knowledge and wisdom at his side...and we have boundless negative and positive energy. Now what I believe God did was ...He established the bounds of righteousness within this energy. I'm convinced that that is what he is referring to in the book of Job whenNow if we think of negative and positive energy as neither good nor bad.... ( hang with me please ) but both of them having there proper usage. Much as a magnet has a north and south pole which can be used to create attraction or repulsion. he talks of all the boundaries and borders that He established at the beginning ( Job 38:15-25) Think of what is being talked about in these verses in spiritual terms.
Now let me give an example of how that might translate in humanities conscious experience. Lets take the relationship of man and woman. God wants man and woman to have the highest and most fulfilling experience possible. Now the experience that happens to be one of the highest human experiences is the sexual union between husband and wife. God wants the attraction of the two to be as intense as possible...the problem is because of our current state of mind ( Carnal but walking after the spirit..hopefully everyone :-) whenever we encounter something that creates that level of desire the danger exists that we will covet the pleasure at the expense of righteousness. Now here is what I believe God is working out within us. He wants to keep the good ( intensity of desire ) and eliminate the bad ( wanting the pleasure more than to love God or my wife). I'm sorry guys I know this is going to set off a lot of wives..... just tell her to cool down..God has it all worked out...and He will do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think ( Eph 3:20) Here is the example in a nutshell. Intense sexual attraction= Good....coveting and selfishness=Bad. God is eliminating the bad while intensifying and preserving the good.
Now regardding the concern that Antwian expressed. Will our joy and happiness in the eternal life be limited by our own personal pain and suffering in this life....NO! Our joy and happiness in the eternal life will be limited by the pain and suffering of all of humanity...through all the ages from Adam and Eve until the return of Christ...why?
Because we will become one with the Father even as Jesus is one with Him... Think of it this way...God took his singular consciousness and extrapolated it out into the billions of human consciousnesses under every conceivable circumstances and...for lack of a better example created or is creating the data base of experience that will be the seed for our eternal existence...keeping in mind that the pain and suffering will be converted to joy and happiness. We are each playing our own small part in establishing that seed that we will all enjoy the fruit from. I hope this clears things up a little more.
Harry
You mention the duality of good and evil....and then state that God is all in all scripture does not exactly support that.
All the laws of mixing:, wool with linen ,milk with meat ,the scape goat etc and the warning to separate and come out show us that God who is pure good will not associate with sin and the sinful...so God is not "in" these sinners....yet.
He is workin on it
Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fulness of Him who is filling the all in all,
(1Co 12:6) and there are diversities of workings, and it is the same God--who is working the all in all.
It will come to pass
1Co 15:28 Now when all the [things] are subjected to Him, then the Son also Himself will be subjected to One having subjected all the [things] to Him, so that God shall be the all in all
I am a bit confused because you define good and evil as positive and negative and then say there is no good or bad....which is this sounds like a shell game of " under which cup is the pea. Duality is what is physical.....only spiritual purity can attain oneness.
You also tend to look at all of this as for our joy.....but look at the scriptures
It is His joy that we will have Jesus being one with Father knew the plan
Heb 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter of faith--Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him--did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;
Joh 16:24 till now ye did ask nothing in my name; ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
The only way that you can recieve the same answer that jesus got is to have Christ in you..and pray the Will of the Father
Joh 15:11 these things I have spoken to you, that my joy in you may remain, and your joy may be full. Like Rays shows you got to look at the words...it says may remain and may be
Here is something you point too....
Job 38:7 In the singing together of stars of morning, And all sons of God shout for joy, It will be glorious in the end as it was in the beginning
But none of this is for us...it is for ALL for the Glory of God
He has hidden it for awhile
Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of ...
He has promised it
Joh 11:40 Jesus saith to her, `Said I not to thee, that if thou mayest believe, thou shalt see the glory of God
He has shown how it will be done
Php 2:11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
and He tells us why ot was done
(2Co 4:15) For everything is for your sakes, in order that grace, being more richly bestowed because of the thanksgivings of the increased number, may more and more promote the glory of God.
Harry all of us here have these ticks in gnats in our fur and we all need to work hard to get them out (his working in us will do this) , we need to see what God is saying and not try to describe the undescribable...you speak of consciousness do you REALLY know exactly what that is? Yikes thinking about tht gives me a headache.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
All our words need to be examined, so Harry I hope you take this in the spirit given. I see what you are trying to say but I like other also see the carnal aspects that can cloud the thinking.
Rev 21:23 and the city hath no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they may shine in it; for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp of it is the Lamb; This is a nice peice of spiritual meat
Never the less your post sure make the heart sing thinking on these things
(Psa 150:1) Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
(Psa 150:2) Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
(Psa 150:3) Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
(Psa 150:4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
(Psa 150:5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
(Psa 150:6) Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD.
Praise ye the LORD
beloved