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Author Topic: No Hell?  (Read 8581 times)

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lesur

  • Guest
No Hell?
« on: March 19, 2006, 01:55:21 PM »

Apparently you don't believe the bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God, so there is little value in arguing.  I'll leave you with this just in case you come to your senses:

WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
  • "fire"                                       Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
  • "everlasting fire"                          Matt 18:8, 25:41
  • "eternal damnation"               Mark 3:29
  • "hell fire"                              Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
  • "damnation"                          Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
  • "damnation of hell"                Matt 23:33
  • "resurrection of damnation"    John 5:29
  • "furnace of fire"                           Matt 13:42, 50
  • "the fire that never shall be quenched"    Mark 9:43, 45
  • "the fire is not quenched"               Mark 9:44, 46, 48
  • "Where their worm dieth not"    Mark 9:44, 46, 48
  • "wailing and gnashing of teeth"    Matt 13:42, 50
  • "weeping and gnashing of teeth"   Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
  • "torments"                                    Luke 16:23
  • "tormented in this flame"              Luke 16:24
  • "place of torment"                         Luke 16:28
  • "outer darkness"                         Matt 8:12, 22:13
  • "everlasting punishment"             Matt 25:46
  • [/list:u]
    WHAT IF JESUS IS RIGHT?

    I understand
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rvhill

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2006, 02:18:49 PM »

Philippians 2:10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." [ Joel 2:32]


Romans 10:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Hebrews 7:25Therefore he is able to save completely [ Or forever] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

1 Corinthians 5:5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature [ Or that his body; or that the flesh] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord

Ephesians 2:5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

1 Peter 3:18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

1 Timothy 1:15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

2 Timothy 1:9who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Romans 11:26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

Matthew 19:25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"

26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Luke 19:9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."


John 3:17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him


John 10:7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

John 12:47 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.
all of Romans 5, a whole chapter, not a just one or 2 verses



See I got a list too and my list is bigger.  I can add more to it if you want. By saying you believe in eternal damnation you deny the above text.
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mike

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2006, 02:20:41 PM »

"Apparently you don't believe the bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God, so there is little value in arguing. I'll leave you with this just in case you come to your senses:"

if you mean the KJV is not the "inerrant" word of God i'm sure you are correct (for my part).  it is in fact a translation that is indeed flawed in places.  find a copy of Rotherhams and check it out.  (no it isn't inerrant either as it is not possible to translate one language to another "perfectly")
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2006, 02:53:32 PM »

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
 
1Ti 2:5  For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
 
1Ti 2:6  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times,  the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack, concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.





Dear I understand,

God is not willing for any to perish and God does what He wills, His pleasure, in His time.

I am sure you don't mean God is incapable of doing His own will or that the sacrifice of Jesus was insufficient, do you?

Check out the original Hebrew and Greek definitions (e-sword) on the hell stuff, you may be very surprised or read Ray's "Lake of Fire" series, an eyeopener indeed.

Joe
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ertsky

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2006, 03:12:54 PM »

Hey there lesur

don't be too hasty to consign anyone to eternal torment :)

do you really believe the Father of all mercies is so incompetent, as to have to resort to torture ??

is that your opinion of God ??

is that how Saul became Paul ??

Luk 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

come on lesur couldn't the fire Jesus spoke of be spiritual allegory, do you insist it is literal flame ??

has nothing ever burned but not been consumed ??

how many were in the fire with one as the Son of God ??

our God is a consuming fire, come on lesur  

Dan 3:24  Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Dan 3:25  He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

come on lesur think again

Jesus is Lord !

does He seem to you to be a "torture them" kind of guy?

i hear Him this way

Mat 9:13  But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

or what about this word

Mar 9:49  For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

well how about it beloved lesur ? peter paul, james and john, all salted with fire and very much the better for the experience !!

1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

sorry lesur but you will have to rethink your list of proof verses

i know something of the fire of God

Mal 3:2  But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
 
well i am in your debt lesur

you have reminded me of how great a mercy God is showing me in His righteous judgement

sorry to chide you so lesur, you provoke me in love

as the verses cited above clearly show there is a whole lot more to the fire than you or i know at present, please reconsider the possibilities

f
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rvhill

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2006, 03:37:58 PM »

you tell him ertsky
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orion77

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2006, 04:55:35 PM »

How lucky and blessed we are to have a God that loves us so much that He is willing to send His own son.  How lucky and blessed we are to have a Lord and saviour who accomplished the will of the Father.  Amazing words when Jesus went into the garden to pray before He was crucified.  How lucky and blessed we, sinners, to be forgiven.  Now, these are just a few things we are lucky and blessed to have.

Seeing we have these things, being sinners and not righteous and have fallen short of the glory of God, who are we to say that God cannot or will not forgive other sinners.  These few things stated above show the great character, love and mercy that fills His being.  

Jesus healing the blind, deaf, crippled, raising the dead or changing water into wine are great things indeed, but they are in no comparison to His saving power.  This is the true power of God, in which no man or even death itself can prevent from being accomplished.  His will be done in earth as it is in heaven.

To be carnally minded is death.  Death likes to speak of itself.  To be spiritually minded is life.  Life does not speak of itself, but likes to bring death back into the light.  It all boils down to love.  One can not talk about the love of God and in the same sentence portray God as as evil hideous torturer, and then try to justify it by saying that His ways are higher than ours.  All through the bible God constantly wants His people to come closer to Him and to learn His ways.  It takes repentence with a broken heart and a contrite spirit.  

Jesus came to save us from death, the grave and to bring us life more abundantly.  He does not condemn us, He gave his life for us.  How much more love can be seen there?  Be careful of worldly religion and their constant condemnations.  Diligently seek God and He will reward you.

We either have the love of God in us during this life or we will be thrown into it come judgement day.  Our God is a consuming fire.  Religion talks about fire as a bad thing, but when you study the bible enough you come to realize that fire is a good thing, weird very strange.  No wonder we are commanded to come out of her.

God bless you in your search.

Gary
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: No Hell?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2006, 05:31:49 PM »

Quote from: lesur
Apparently you don't believe the bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God, so there is little value in arguing.  I'll leave you with this just in case you come to your senses:

WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
  • "fire"                                       Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
  • "everlasting fire"                          Matt 18:8, 25:41
  • "eternal damnation"               Mark 3:29
  • "hell fire"                              Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
  • "damnation"                          Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
  • "damnation of hell"                Matt 23:33
  • "resurrection of damnation"    John 5:29
  • "furnace of fire"                           Matt 13:42, 50
  • "the fire that never shall be quenched"    Mark 9:43, 45
  • "the fire is not quenched"               Mark 9:44, 46, 48
  • "Where their worm dieth not"    Mark 9:44, 46, 48
  • "wailing and gnashing of teeth"    Matt 13:42, 50
  • "weeping and gnashing of teeth"   Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
  • "torments"                                    Luke 16:23
  • "tormented in this flame"              Luke 16:24
  • "place of torment"                         Luke 16:28
  • "outer darkness"                         Matt 8:12, 22:13
  • "everlasting punishment"             Matt 25:46
  • [/list:u]
    WHAT IF JESUS IS RIGHT?

    I understand


Rather than waste my time commenting on each verse, I recommend that you look up the true meaning behind the Greek words translated "everlasting" and "hell."

Read my reply to this guys post: http://forums.bible-truths.com/viewtopic.php?t=42
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Falconn003

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No Hell?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2006, 06:05:53 PM »

a
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 08:04:45 AM by Falconn003 »
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lesur

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First response
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2006, 06:47:06 PM »

Quote from: ertsky
Hey there lesur

 Hi ertsky,  thanks for your response.  My comments are in the text below.

don't be too hasty to consign anyone to eternal torment :)

I am not.   I am only a pupil of God's word. His word is quite clear to me.  I advise you to take care that are not only relying on the verses that support your theology.

do you really believe the Father of all mercies is so incompetent, as to have to resort to torture ??

no, not at all.  Who said anything about being incompentent or having to resort to anything?  Your arguement here sounds supiciously like somethiing a non-christian would say of the crucificition of Christ.  Was God so incompetent, in your opinon, that he had to resort to torturing his son?

is that your opinion of God ??

is that how Saul became Paul ??
see above

Luk 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Indeed, if only men would accept them.  Not beleiving in Jesus will put you squarely into hell

What is man being saved from all over in the new testament  (Luke 8:12 as an example) if not damnation?


come on lesur couldn't the fire Jesus spoke of be spiritual allegory, do you insist it is literal flame ??
I believe it is literal eternal punishment, yes.  

has nothing ever burned but not been consumed ??

how many were in the fire with one as the Son of God ??

our God is a consuming fire, come on lesur  

Dan 3:24  Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Dan 3:25  He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

I don't see the relevance here to our discussion.  Certainly God can keep people from being burned, He is omnipotent.  

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

God has allowed us to pursue our sinful inclinations so that He could receieve glory by demonstrating His grace and mercy.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

This is Paul beginning to burst out in praise to the majesty, grandeur and wisdom of God's plan reveled in the earlier verses.  Once again this is off track to the main discussion as far as I can see.  God is great, of that we agree.

come on lesur think again

Jesus is Lord !

does He seem to you to be a "torture them" kind of guy?
as is so clearly written, every person has a choice of whether to beleive in Him or to not beleive in Him.


Mat 9:13  But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I know what He means here, do you?

or what about this word

Mar 9:49  For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

well how about it beloved lesur ? peter paul, james and john, all salted with fire and very much the better for the experience !!

And?  How does this attend to the question of if there is a hell which those who haven't accepted God will go to?  

What of Judas?  

Mark 14:21 says:  The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Why would it has been better for Judas if he had never been born?



1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

sorry lesur but you will have to rethink your list of proof verses

i know something of the fire of God

Well one of us should rethink their position and proof verses.  Here we are again. I think we can assume that Jesus is adressing believers here.  So the point is moot.  

We know that believiers can expect persecution, that is not same nor even the same greek word being used for all of these examples you are giving.  The greek word used for the fire of hell (gehenna) is quite different than that you refrence in either 1 Peter or Mark.  1 Peter is purois (smelting ignition)- burning trial or calamity as a test.  Mark's fire is the root word pur which is fire as we know and use it.  Gehenna, hell, is a place of everlasting punishment and hell fire.

You could stand to know more about the fire of God so you don't lead other astray.


Mal 3:2  But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
 
well i am in your debt lesur

you have reminded me of how great a mercy God is showing me in His righteous judgement

If you are being sincere, which is not too likely I suppose, then I am glad you were reminded

sorry to chide you so lesur, you provoke me in love

Chide?  When?  I feel secure enough to carry on a discussion with a brother (or sister) in the faith, even if we do have differing views.


as the verses cited above clearly show there is a whole lot more to the fire than you or i know at present, please reconsider the possibilities

I will pray on it, will you as well, even if you have prayed about it previously?l

f
I may have messed up some of your formating, I had some problems typing this. If I did, it was purely by accident.
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gmik

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2006, 07:03:46 PM »

Lesur-  Have you read any of Ray or Mike"s teachings?? Read the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man- clearly the parable is about Israel and its enemies.  In fact, it is one of my favorites- short, simple and indisputable. Please read the scriptures that Ray uses.  Awesome, when I read that essay, I pushed my chair back, jumped up, and said, I KNEW IT.  God doesn't send people to this place called hell.  Me a life long church person.  But all along something always nagged at me about that. You should be thrilled and study and read and study and recheck the greek until you are sure and can say MY GOD and LORD came to save the world and thru Jesus HE did.  Read the myth about the whole way that Lucifer came about.  Go off site to independent websites about historical times and what early church fathers did, read, and suffered for.  Read how Rome took over the church.  Eye opening.  Don't be defending such tradition.  Ask the Lord to remove the scales from your eyes. Have a heart tender and ready to receive the TRUTH of the scripture-not something you have heard all your life.  Humble yourself- Want to know the truth, really really want.  Yikes, didn't mean to go on, I love you brother, in the Lord ,and hope you are sincere in your search to be so close to Christ that as you are in Him, then He is in you.
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2006, 07:15:27 PM »

Lesur, perhaps there are some here who will indulge you in this, but since you are here in this forum by your own "free will" (yeah right) why don't you read the material on Ray & Mike's sites and come back with scriptural refutation. I see you ignored so much of what was replied to your post, we have seen it before, believe me. You really need to supply more scripture and less with the feelings and "christian" tradition. (Remember the original Hebrew/Greek).

My brothers and sisters here can do what they are compelled to do in regard to your preaching of this blasphemy but until I see you address the "meat of the matter" and not just parrot these doctrines from Babylon I will not be a part of broadcasting these evil attributes to our Lord and Saviour and His (and our) Father.

Joe

P.S. 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack, concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

We believe God is quite capable of doing His will, puny flesh can't detour it, nor can any man thwart His will.
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Dennis Vogel

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No Hell?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2006, 08:32:29 PM »

This can continue as long as everyone remains civil. Please, OK?

Dennis
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Falconn003

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2006, 10:15:52 PM »

Ahhh...the ever reliance of straw-men to support the existance of hell, how typical.

The old cliche' of the same arguements of hell existing over and over again.

These same arguements for the existance of  hell will become clearer and ever so clearer in the distance.  And will become easier to refute just the same.

Never is the factual definition and understanding of hades and sheol ever really taken into consideration, nor even for that matter the original definition of " HELL ".

Rodger
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rvhill

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2006, 11:34:28 PM »

Dear lesur so you agree with me, we will all be save? You did not respond to my first post. So that mean you must agree with it.
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bobf

  • Guest
Re: No Hell?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2006, 01:15:04 PM »

Quote from: lesur
Apparently you don't believe the bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God, so there is little value in arguing.  I'll leave you with this just in case you come to your senses:

WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
  • "fire"                                       Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
  • "everlasting fire"                          Matt 18:8, 25:41
  • "eternal damnation"               Mark 3:29
  • "hell fire"                              Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
  • "damnation"                          Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
  • "damnation of hell"                Matt 23:33
  • "resurrection of damnation"    John 5:29
  • "furnace of fire"                           Matt 13:42, 50
  • "the fire that never shall be quenched"    Mark 9:43, 45
  • "the fire is not quenched"               Mark 9:44, 46, 48
  • "Where their worm dieth not"    Mark 9:44, 46, 48
  • "wailing and gnashing of teeth"    Matt 13:42, 50
  • "weeping and gnashing of teeth"   Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
  • "torments"                                    Luke 16:23
  • "tormented in this flame"              Luke 16:24
  • "place of torment"                         Luke 16:28
  • "outer darkness"                         Matt 8:12, 22:13
  • "everlasting punishment"             Matt 25:46
  • [/list:u]
    WHAT IF JESUS IS RIGHT?

    I understand


lesur,

Jesus WAS right.  Hint: You are not Jesus.  Jesus did not ask anyone to come to his SENSES as you do.  Jesus came to baptize people in the Spirit of God AND IN FIRE.  The carnal (senses) man can not understand the things of the spirit.

Answer this:
1. Was Sodom punished in "eternal" fire?
2. Is the fire still burning?
3. Will Sodom be restored?
4. Will the PEOPLE of Sodom be restored?

And this (looking at Mark 9:49)
1. What does this verse say men MUST BE salted with?
2. How many does it say must be salted?
3. What does the word "FOR" mean in this verse?
4. What kind of FIRE is described preceding this verses?
5. Are ANY other kinds of FIRE mentioned in the chapter?
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eutychus

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2006, 01:50:18 PM »

I may have messed up some of your formating, I had some problems typing this. If I did, it was purely by accident.

no worries friend, keep up the study and may God bless you in the spirit of love and truth!!!

nothing new under the sun!!!

you are not here or anywhere by accident.

eutychus
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Dan

  • Guest
No Hell?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2006, 09:26:49 PM »

Regarding the Judas verse, Here is an explaination from Ray;




Read this verse from an Interlinear in the original word order found in the Greek Manuscripts, the the meaning is totally different:

 

"The indeed Son of the man goes as it has been written about HIM [Jesus]; Woe but to THE MAN THAT [Judas] through whom the Son of the man is delivered up; good [ideal] it was to HIM [Jesus, NOT JUDAS] if not was born THE MAN THAT [Judas, NOT JESUS]."

 

Plainly it would have been ideal for JESUS, if JUDAH had not been born. NOT ideal would it have been for JUDAS if JUDAS had not been born.

 

Consistant in this verse, "The Son of man" and "Him" and "Him" is JESUS, and "the man that" is JUDAS.

 

The "Him" (Jesus) in the first part of the verse does not change to "him" (Judas) in the second part of the verse:  The "The Son of man--Him and Him" is constistantly Jesus, and "that man" and "that man"  is consistantly, Judas.

 

God be with you,

Ray







Also remember the burning bush.

The bush was consumed with fire but the bush was not burning



And of course theres no amount of studying that will allow us to learn the truth.(see Pharisees)

Isa 6:9  And He said, Go and say to this people, Hearing you hear, but do not understand; and seeing you see, but do not know.
Isa 6:10  Make the heart of this people fat, and make his ears heavy, and shut his eyes, that he not see with his eyes, and hear with his ears, and understand with his heart, and turn back, and one heals him.


The Father makes us blind and the Father makes us see.


Even if Lesur does not get it, the are others who are picking up the pearls, I picked up some.
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eutychus

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No Hell?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2006, 09:12:16 AM »

"""""Even if Lesur does not get it, the are others who are picking up the pearls, I picked up some""""""



he will, God bless him in his search for the truth!!!
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Dan

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No Hell?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2006, 12:19:53 PM »

Gehenna, from the Greek geenna or the Hebrew hinnom, the Valley of Hinnom, is a deep narrow glen south of Jerusalem, where the Jews offered their children to the god Molech (2 Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2-5), as seen in Jeremiah this practice was strongly condemned by the prophets. Later it became a refuge for all putrefying material which defiled the city;

The term Ge-henna simply means  Valley of Hinnom.

the lake of fire is simply refered to be like the fire at the valley of Hinnom. The garbage and refuse was put here in Jesus' time and set on fire. This fire never went out and burned continually. It burned up the GARBAGE and REFUSE .


Mar 9:47  And if your eye offends you, cast it out. For it is profitable for you to enter into the kingdom of God one-eyed, than having two eyes to be thrown into  Gehenna fire,
Mar 9:48  "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." Isa. 66:24(the worm verse doesnt mean what people think)
Mar 9:49  For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt.
Mar 9:50  Salt is good, but if the salt becomes saltless, by what will you season? Have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another.


everyone will be salted with fire, (dont think man's fire here)
salt within us makes us to be at peace with one another!!(mar 9:50)


What do you think The Lake of Fire (God is a consuming fire) will burn up.

Why the chaff (wood, hay stubble)
And What is the chaff?

Of course you know, it is SIN (wickedness)

1Co 5:5  to deliver such a one(continual sinner) to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


 That is why " He is like a refiner's fire and like fuller's soap.
 And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver;Mal 3:1-4


 A refiners fire is not a destroying fire. it PURIFYS.(Gold refining makes Gold pure)
 Fullers Soap does not Destroy, it CLEANSES.


Mat 13:49  So it will be in the completion of the age: the angels will go out and will separate the evil from the midst of the righteous
Mat 13:50  and will throw them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and gnashing of the teeth.

Ps 112:10  The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and become faint with grief: the desires of the wicked shall perish.(the desires not the person)


There is weeping and gnashing of teeth, when the wicked SEE IT, AND ARE GRIEVED. even faint with grief, THEN their desire to do wickedness is burned up (removed, cleansed,refined,purified)



 You see His judgements are not mans judgements.



Read this very slowly my friends

Rom 11:29  For the free gifts and the calling of God are unregrettable.
Rom 11:30  For as you then also disobeyed God, but now have obtained mercy by the disobedience of these,
Rom 11:31  so also these now have disobeyed, so that they also may obtain mercy by your mercy. (not by us condemning to eternal torment)
Rom 11:32  For God shut up all into disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches and of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!


Mans judgement and mans perception of Gods judgement, ARE NOT GODS JUDGEMENT


Isa 61:8  For I the LORD love judgement, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.


Isa 16:5  And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgement, and hasting righteousness.

Isa 42:3  A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgement unto truth.

Isa 1:27  Zion shall be redeemed with judgement, and her converts with righteousness.


Isa 4:4  when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and the blood of Jerusalem shall have been rinsed away from its midst by a spirit of judgement, and by a spirit of burning.

wash away the filth with a spirit of burning




"For when Thy [God's] JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!



When Gods judgements are in the earth the whole world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS


This should give us exceeding joy!!!

Amen
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