astrapho,
Maybe this transcript on FOUNDATIONAL TRUTHS would be of great help in your dilemma, with your friends.
There is an audio also on FOUNDATIONAL TRUTHS.[look in Rays audios]
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.0.htmlHOW TO GIVE AN ANSWERNow I said you are going to learn something today and I’m getting to it. We’ve partly got to it, but not completely. So I just read you 7 profound Scriptures;
God is not willing that any should perish… God will is that all should be saved… God has commissioned His Son to be Savior of the world… God is love… love never fails… God will do all of His pleasure…
We read those Scriptures, right. Now here is the thing, when somebody tries to show you, ’oh yeah He has a desire that all people will be saved. He has the desire. It’s just that it won’t happen.’ Of course the main reason is because He gave man free will and they will not all freely choose Him. So God will have to torture them for all eternity. Don’t get sucked into that.
I mean maybe when you become really mature in the Scriptures you can allow them to go there and talk to them. But I’m telling you right here today, don’t get sucked into those arguments. These ministers of the world… when people who have a fairly good education in the Scriptures, they will eat you for lunch.
I have people all day long that send me emails and say, ‘Ray I’m in trouble, I went to my minister and told him he was a stupid SOB and the Scriptures said this. Well he said that and now I’m in trouble. I’m going to see him again tomorrow and I’ve got to know how to answer him Ray.’
Well I say you’ve made your bed, now sleep in it. Sometimes I’ll give them a little information. But a lot of times I say, no, I am not going to teach you how to make a fool out of your minister. Your minister is going to make a fool out of you, because your attitude is wrong. God doesn’t teach us these Truths so we can go out and make fools out of people.
So here’s what you do and here’s what you think, if you are talking to someone this is what you say.
If you have already established that you believe these 7 verses that I gave you.
Now if they say something like, ‘yeah but what about this over here?’
You say, ‘wait a minute, I just read you Scriptures that made a profound statement and one of them was that God DOES NOT lie. Now does any Scripture state that God DOES lie?’
Don’t let them suck you into their train of thinking. You take control. Say, ‘Is there a Scripture that says, God does lie? Is there? Well is there a Scripture the says God does not lie? Yes. Then if all Scripture is true, which one is true? The Scripture that doesn’t exist or the one that does exist? The one that says God does not lie, is the Truth.’
Is there a Scripture that says that the Scripture are NOT inspired of God? Is there such a Scripture? No. Well then don’t let anybody take you someplace and quote you something that they say contradicts that Scripture. Don’t go there.
You can say, ‘look I believe this Scriptures. Now do you have one that says the Scriptures are NOT inspired of God? Do you have a verse like that? No. Well forget it, our argument is over.’
Is there a Scripture that says God Word is NOT true? If they want to take you some place that contradicts one of those 7 Scripture, which are true, then there can’t be a Scripture that says one of those Scriptures is not true. If there is no such Scripture and they say, ‘yeah but this one…’
Just say, ‘I understand that you do not understand that Scripture. But it does not contradict the Scripture that says God’s Word is Truth. Regardless of what you think it implies or might mean or this or that. It does not say that God’s Word is not Truth does it? No. Well then do we have a Scripture that says God Word is Truth? Yes. Then you can’t have a Scripture that contradicts that.’
See you can’t have a Scripture that suggests sometimes under certain circumstances, that there are times or places where God’s Word is not true. No, so don’t go there.
You can say, ‘Is there a Scripture that God does NOT wish - care - please - want to - desire - wishes or any word that you want to say, that all men be saved? Is there a Scripture that says that? NO. Well if you can’t show me a Scripture that says He doesn’t want all men to be saved, then you try to tell me the one that says He does want them saved, is a lie. Don’t you go there with me. That’s the true Scripture.’
If he has no Scripture that says God doesn’t desire or wish or want or please that all men be saved, it’s because there is no such Scripture. But if he tries to come up with anything that contradicts it... It can’t. Because we have a plain statement.
Is there a Scripture that says the Son will NOT be the Savior of the world? God the Father commissioned Jesus Christ in 1 John 4:14 to BE the Savior of the world. Now is there a Scripture that says God did NOT commission Him or that He will NOT be the Savior of the world? Is the such a Scripture?
So then don’t let anybody take you somewhere to some Scripture, that they think contradicts this Truth. Don’t go there!
Say, ‘you’re dead in the water. Because I’ve got a Scripture of Truth and the only way you can tell me that it is not true, is if you contradict it. If it contradicts, then the Word of God is not true, it is not inspired and God is a liar. I’m not going there with you.’
Do we have a Scripture that says that the Scripture we have just read CAN be broken? You know we read one that said the Scripture CAN NOT be broken, so do we have one that says, well under certain circumstances it can? Can God’s laws be broken? Absolutely. Can the Scripture be broken? The Bible says no. So don’t try to give me some Scripture where you think, ‘well yeah they shall perish.’ God says He is going to save them and it’s His will - it’s His pleasure, it’s His wish - it’s a desire - He is going to fulfill all His wishes, all His pleasures, all His desires and He will save them.
So say, ‘don’t try to show me a Scripture that contradicts that. There are no Scriptures that contradict that.’ If they say, ‘well it sounds like it.’ You say, 'well it sounds like it because you don’t understand the Scripture that you are reading. You don’t even believe the simple ones that I just showed you.’
Is this easy for you now? Are you getting it? Does it make sense? Do you have to be a scholar, a theologian? Do you have to know Hebrew and Greek to understand what I am telling you? It’s simple.
Do we have a Scripture that in the judgment God will change His mind and will desire that most of humanity will NOT repent and will perish? Come on, we just read, He is not willing that ANY should perish, but they ALL come to repentance.
Is there a Scripture that says, He is NOT willing that all come to repentance and He in fact, at judgment will wish and will and desire and perish most of humanity in torture for all eternity? Do you see what I am saying? If you believe the Scripture, those 7 Scripture that I gave you. Now we can expand them, but with just those 7 you can counter anything in the Scripture. There is no false doctrine that you can’t counter with one of those 7 points. Nothing.
You say, ’what about the trinity?’ Thy Word is Truth, is there a Scripture that says that God is made up of three people? No. Then you don’t have a Scripture for that. ‘No, but it says back in Hebrews Elohim, and that’s in the plural, so that’s the trinity.’ Excuse me, if something is in the plural does that mean three? If I say I have eggs in the refrigerator, do you automatically think I have three? If I say I have dollars in my pocket, is it three? I could have two or ten thousand.
I get emails that say, ‘Ray it’s in the plural, can’t you see it, God is in the plural, that’s the trinity.’ I say I don’t see three in there any where. Look it up in Hebrews, look it up in the dictionary. Elohim does not mean three persons.
So maybe God doesn’t lie and everything that God says is true and the problem is with His Son and Jesus Christ failed to do what He said. You see God the Father is not here on earth, nor was He at the time of Christ’s ministry actually speaking in the first person - Father, to the people and the Pharisees. He did it all through His Son. So maybe His Son screwed up? Maybe it’s not the Father’s fault, maybe it’s Christ’s fault? Well let’s see if Christ failed to do what His Father sent Him to do.
John 8:29 And He (the Father) that sent Me (Jesus) is with Me: the Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.
There it is. Well what are you going to do with that? What is God’s good pleasure? What is it He desires? That all men be saved! What is it He doesn’t desire? That any should perish! How is He going to accomplish this? By sending Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the whole world. Is Jesus Christ going to do what His Father said? “I do always” what My Father said. See that!
John 4:34 Jesus said unto them, My meat is to DO THE WILL OF HIM THAT SENT ME, AND TO F I N I S H HIS WORK.
Whatever God the Father sent Him to do, He will finish it. What is the big commission? 1 John 4:14, God commissioned Christ, His Son to be the Savior of the world. So anyone who tries to tell you that any of those 7 Scriptures and has contradictory Scripture, he is a lying two faced hypocrite and a charlatan.
So did you get the point of how you approach all the false doctrines and the heresy and everything else? You get a couple of Scriptures in your mind that are true.
God does not lie. I mean you can’t twist that into sometimes He does.
He is not willing that ANY should perish, can not be twisted into - but He will cause to perish almost everybody. You can’t do that. How do you twist the Scripture into that?
I will do ALL My pleasure, how do you twist that into - I will only get a fraction of My pleasure accomplished.
How do you twist I always do My Father’s will, I will do the work of God, how do you twist that into - I’ll do the best I can, but with man’s free will it’s going to be mostly a failure. You can’t twist those Scriptures into saying that and if you can’t, then they’re true. When they’re true you don’t have another Scripture that contradicts any of those.
That will lay to rest the entire doctrine of Christiandom. Every major evil doctrine in the church is laid to rest, just believing those 7 Scripture.
You need to learn as many key verses as you can, but you don’t have to learn 50. A lot of times I’ll have a subject in my mind and I’ll be flooded with this verse and that one from Deuteronomy to II Kings and Psalms and over in Job and then Christ mentioned it in John and Paul picked up on it and then Peter. But you don’t have to know all that stuff. Just for every major idea or doctrine have a key, just one key Scripture.
Peace...Mark
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