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[EKnight]

I am reading Matthew's account of the Sermon on the mount.

It starts out in Chapter five with this first verse:

1 Now, perceiving the throngs, He ascended into the mountain. And, at His being seated, His disciples came to Him.

Ray said:

The following verses taken from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount make it abundantly clear that Jesus was not addressing the Pharisees, or Saducees, or the Priests,  or Scribes, or even the multitudes which did not follow Jesus up the mountain, but waited for His return. Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain. These only He instructed regarding a much higher standard of conduct and judgment:

If Ray is correct, then why does it say this at the end of Chapter 7:

28 And it came, when Jesus finishes these sayings, that the throngs were astonished at His teaching,
29 for He was teaching them as One having authority, and not as their scribes.

How could they (the throngs) be astonished at his teachings if it is as Rays says: "Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain." 

Eileen

[Phil3:10]

Eileen,
I have read Matthew 5 through 7 and my take is that Jesus first taught his disciples and due to the time frame the multitude drew near to here his teachings. In the KJV and in the CLNT throng and multitude mean a crowd of people. I would think CHRIST'S teachings were primarily for the disciples but also fell on the ears of the multitude (throng) which followed HIM when HE came down from the mountain in Chapter 8.
This is just my take but I do feel that Ray has it right that the teachings were first for the disciples in order that they might teach in the absence of CHRIST. The multitude (throng) was always with CHRIST and the only way for HIM to get away was to flee them.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

[EKnight]

But look at the italicized word in this verse:

28 And it came, when Jesus finishes these sayings, that the throngs were astonished at His teaching,
29 for He was teaching them as One having authority, and not as their scribes.

The "them" in this verse is referring back to the "throngs" so He (Christ) was teaching "them" (the throngs).

I am only bringing this up because Ray was pretty emphatic about Christ teaching his disciples so I guess it's important to understand.

Eileen

[Marlene]

Eileen here is a verse that might help you.
Mark 1: 27 And they were all amazed insomuch that they questioned among themselves , saying, What thing is this: what new doctine is this:for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

I believe this is a spiritual match for the verse you gave Eileen. Looks to me like they questioned things but did not understand.

In His Love,
Marlene

[mharrell08]

I am reading Matthew's account of the Sermon on the mount.

It starts out in Chapter five with this first verse:

1 Now, perceiving the throngs, He ascended into the mountain. And, at His being seated, His disciples came to Him.

Ray said:

The following verses taken from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount make it abundantly clear that Jesus was not addressing the Pharisees, or Saducees, or the Priests,  or Scribes, or even the multitudes which did not follow Jesus up the mountain, but waited for His return. Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain. These only He instructed regarding a much higher standard of conduct and judgment:

If Ray is correct, then why does it say this at the end of Chapter 7:

28 And it came, when Jesus finishes these sayings, that the throngs were astonished at His teaching,
29 for He was teaching them as One having authority, and not as their scribes.

How could they (the throngs) be astonished at his teachings if it is as Rays says: "Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain." 

Eileen

Eileen, how many disciples do you believed Christ's addressed? Remember, Christ had 12 apostles but a good number of disciples.

Luke 6:13  And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Are seventy (70) or more people considered a 'throng' or multitude?

Luke 10:1-3  After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

Luke 10:17  And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Some apostles/disciples did not know of other disciples:

Luke 9:49-50  And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us

Mark 9:38-39  And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

The scriptures speak of 'many disciples':

Mark 2:15  And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

John 6:65-67  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back ['from that time'; but before 'that time' many disciples followed him], and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

And so on and so on...one thing to maybe keep in mind is 'why' Christ taught His disciples these spiritual truths on the mount...that's what Ray covers in great detail and it may help you to see the broader picture than just how many people may have heard it.

Also remember, who the mysteries of the kingdom were given to...the disciples, not the multitude (the many):

Matt 13:10-11  ...the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Luke 8:9-10  ...his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Marlene]

Eileen, I wonder how many people came into Ray's website and were astonished at what they read. Well, we already know, how many came in and read the truths of God, but left. It is still like back then.  Not, many believe the truth. I believe , Marques covered this pretty well. I know, that God choose the perfect time in my life to give me eyes to see and ears to hear. Many disciples walked for a while and gave up.

Take, a look at how much persuction  Ray has received. They  do not know who Jesus is.It is no different today. Man is a God to themself. I always, thought it would have been nice to see Jesus perform all his miracles. But, most only wanted a healing or food. It is all the physical they were after. But, to give up self is impossible without the Holy Spirit. That, is why many gave up after there healing or they were given food. They felt they had all they needed.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Kat]

Hi Eileen,

Mat 5:1 But, seeing the multitudes, He went up into a mountain,—and, when He had taken a seat, His disciples came unto Him;

I was looking at this scripture, it seems that Jesus did notice the multitude, but left them and went up onto the mountain and it is there that His disciples were with Him.  I believe the multitude was gathered below waiting and up on the mountain He was with only His disciples.  Then later as you come over to verse 28 in chapter 7, He was down with the multitude.

Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus ended these words, with astonishment were the multitudes being struck at His teaching;

Now we also have Luke's version of this same sermon and it starts out with Jesus calling all His disciples together and choosing out the 12. 

Luke 6:13 And, when it became day, He called His disciples, and chose from them, twelve, whom also he named, Apostles,—

I think verse 13 is the same as where Matt. 5:1 that explains He first saw the multitude then went up with the disciples.  There He spoke to them privately.
But then in verse 17 it shows that He came down with all of "His disciples" from up on the mountain, "to a level place" where "a great multitude of people" were and began to teach them. 

Luke 6:17  And He came down with them and stood on a level place with a crowd of His disciples and a great multitude of people from all Judea and Jerusalem, and from the seacoast of Tyre and Sidon, who came to hear Him and be healed of their diseases,

But when we go down to verse 20, He is speaking to the disciples, so this seems to be referring back to when He was speaking with His disciples?

Luke 6:20 And, He, lifting up his eyes towards His disciples, was saying:—Happy, ye destitute, for, yours, is the kingdom of God.

But then when you come down to verse 39, this goes back to where He is speaking to the multitude. 

Luke 6:39 He spake, moreover, a parable also, unto them: Can, the blind, guide, the blind? will not, both, fall into, a ditch?

In Matt. it has no division between what He said up on the mountain and then when He came down and spoke more to the great multitude there.  It seems like this is a two part sermon that was just put together in matt. and Luke it looks like to me maybe doesn't have it in order.

Well I'm not sure you can follow that, it's just how I was thinking it may have happened.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

p.s.  The NKJV has headings where these verses are sectioned off, so you can see these divisions.

The Twelve Apostles
Luk 6:12  Now it came to pass in those days that He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
Luk 6:13  And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles:
Luk 6:14  Simon, whom He also named Peter, and Andrew his brother; James and John; Philip and Bartholomew;
Luk 6:15  Matthew and Thomas; James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called the Zealot;
Luk 6:16  Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor.
   
Jesus Heals a Great Multitude   
Luk 6:17  And He came down with them and stood on a level place with a crowd of His disciples and a great multitude of people from all Judea and Jerusalem, and from the seacoast of Tyre and Sidon, who came to hear Him and be healed of their diseases,
Luk 6:18  as well as those who were tormented with unclean spirits. And they were healed.
Luk 6:19  And the whole multitude sought to touch Him, for power went out from Him and healed them all.
   
The Beatitudes     
Luk 6:20  Then He lifted up His eyes toward His disciples, and said:
       "Blessed are you poor,
          For yours is the kingdom of God.
Luk 6:21  Blessed are you who hunger now,
          For you shall be filled.
       Blessed are you who weep now,
          For you shall laugh.
Luk 6:22  Blessed are you when men hate you,
          And when they exclude you,
          And revile you, and cast out your name as evil,
          For the Son of Man's sake.
Luk 6:23  Rejoice in that day and leap for joy!
          For indeed your reward is great in heaven,
          For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.
       
Jesus Pronounces Woes
Luk 6:24  "But woe to you who are rich,
          For you have received your consolation.
Luk 6:25  Woe to you who are full,
          For you shall hunger.
       Woe to you who laugh now,
          For you shall mourn and weep.
Luk 6:26  Woe to you[5] when all[6] men speak well of you,
          For so did their fathers to the false prophets.
   
Love Your Enemies   
Luk 6:27  "But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
Luk 6:28  bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you.
Luk 6:29  To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either.
Luk 6:30  Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back.
Luk 6:31  And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.
Luk 6:32  "But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
Luk 6:33  And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
Luk 6:34  And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back.
Luk 6:35  But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.
Luk 6:36  Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
   
Do Not Judge   
Luk 6:37  "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Luk 6:38  Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."
Luk 6:39  And He spoke a parable to them: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch?
Luk 6:40  A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher.
Luk 6:41  And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye?
Luk 6:42  Or how can you say to your brother, "Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother's eye.