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A Long Awaited Return
judith collier:
Beth, this is a hard one. I read all the answers on that thread that was suggested and if it was me when I was young, well, I would still not know what to do. It is only after many years of growth and putting people and situations in their proper categories that I have peace. I do what I think is correct now, for me, between me and God, not me and my husband. It doesn't make for a great marriage but I highly value integrity. Sometimes , until you are more sure of yourself( I don't get that from your post) perhaps, just keep your mouth shut and wait on God to move. And don't give god a timetable. Just trust Him. Judy
Kat:
Hi Beth,
I think you have held up remarkably in your situation. When I left the church, I kept thinking I would be confronted, as I had been friends with the pastor and his wife, mainly because our girls were friends. But I was just waiting (nerverously) for that confrontation that never came. So I was never really in the position that you are in.
Anyway I hope you realize that the best defense as a good offence. What I mean is if you present a few irrefutable Scriptural truths, how can he attack what you believe. Here is a excerpt from the Bible study 'Foundational Truths' that I think might be of help to you.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.msg51862.html#msg51862 ---
GOD DOES NOT LIE!
Let’s go through just one major point here about God and His work. Now I’m assuming that we accept the fact that there is a God. But first you have to accept that there is a creation and there is a Creator of the creation. I’m assuming that we all believe that there is a God of the creation.
I’ll ask the question here, does God lie? I want to give you this verse in the Concordant in Titus, because it really is worded properly.
Titus 1:2 in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian, (CLV)
The King James says, “God, that cannot lie,” But that is not what it means, that’s not what it says. It doesn’t say in the Greek that He “cannot” lie, it says “does not.” It’s a negative, can’t - don’t. But it’s not that He can’t, but He doesn’t. God doesn’t lie.
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that He should lie;
1 Sam 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie…
That is in a capital, it is talking about God. This is a Truth! You got to hang onto that. Under no circumstances can you ever let go of that Truth, it’s paramount. If you believe that God lies, then you might as well throw your Bible away. You might as well throw your religion away.
This is paramount!
You say, ‘well teach me something new Ray, teach me something I need to know. Teach me something the whole church doesn’t know or believe.’ I AM. They DON’T believe this. That’s why I’m telling you, you must believe this.
G o d d o e s n o t l i e.
GOD’S WORD DOES NOT LIE!
John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy WORD is truth.
John 10:35 …and the SCRIPTURE cannot be broken;
2 Tim 3:16 ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So the Scripture are true. They are true and they can’t be broken and they are written through the inspiration of God, who does not lie. Now have you got that point in your mind? Don’t ever lose that. This is your salvation, when it comes to you understanding the Scriptures and/or teaching others to understand the Scriptures or exposing those who contradict themselves.
We can now apply this TRUTH to all Scriptures. With just that Truth we can confound the mighty of this world and I’ll show you how to do it. This is not going to be a difficult study. But it is going to be maybe one of the most profound studies I’ve ever given.
SEVEN [7] FOUNDATIONAL SCRIPTURES
Now I going to give you 7 Scriptures that talks about really important things and I have several that eludes to the salvation of the human race. Because what is more important than that? What’s more important to a human being than to think that God, since He brought us into existence, we will always be in existence. Even when we die He is going to bring us back. If He brought us here in the first place, then He can bring us back. This is not hard, not for God.
[1] 1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
I never forgot that Scripture. First time I saw that I memorized it and I never forgot it. I never had to look it up again, I knew where it was…1 John 4:14. And also 1 John 4:8 “…for God is love.” Remember these.
[2] 1 Tim 2:4 God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
You’re got to believe that. Maybe you should cut these out and stick them in your Bible or something.
[3] 1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living GOD, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
Phil 2:13 For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Do you see free will in there any place? Who is it that brings about what is your will and what you will do? GOD!
[4] 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is…NOT WILLING that ANY should perish (well how is He going to keep them from perishing?...), but that all should come to repentance.
Here is a negative thought - "not willing." Now this is the will of God and this is important. God’s will is that no one should perish… no one, not Adolf Hitler, not Osama Bin Laden, no one. But they all have to repent.
You say, ‘well they’re already dead Ray.’ That’s right, but they are coming back in judgment and they have to repent. Why? Because God does not want them to perish.
Now we are going to see what theologians do with these verses and what you can’t ever do with these verse. Because this is Truth, God does not will - He’s not willing - He does not want - He has no such desire - He takes no pleasure in any perishing. But He is going to have them all repent.
----------------------------------------------------------
But a good thing to remember is you can not explain the truth to the blind where they will understand. It is not up to you to present great wit and clever remarks to answer their accusations, as Christ did not answer His accusers.
Mat 27:12 And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He answered nothing.
v. 13 Then Pilate said to Him, "Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?"
v. But He answered him not one word, so that the governor marveled greatly.
My prayers are with you.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Phil3:10:
Beth,
My thoughts and prayers are with you and with the circumstances you find yourself currently in. My situation is exactly the reverse as it is my precious wife who believes, as does your husband, in the institutional, denominational, organized church system. My wife and I attended a 50th wedding anniversary for some close friends in my wife's church today and all I heard was how much they missed me and could not wait for me to come back. I have been out for nearly 3 years and there is no way that I ever intend to go back. However, the pain both my wife and I suffer is as real as yours. My constant prayer is that my wife will come out of the Babylonian church system and that we can truly worship HIM that is ALL together.
I know that this is in GOD'S hands and that HIS will is all that matters as I sense you also feel the same way. Prayerfully, HIS will is for answered prayer for the both of us.
In HIM,
Phil3:10
bambam:
Hello. I just wanted to say thank you for that excerpt from Ray Kat! I really needed that today. An evangelist came to our church yesterday and he preached a very convicting sermon last night about all the things that we struggle with but that GOD is able to give us victory-if we let him. He said something like-well you may say I just can't get victory over this or that, but you CAN. It so hard because it sounds like he gives God all the credit but makes it sound like we have to make the choice to LET God give us the victory. He talked about hell alot and the burning flames forever and forever. Ugh. It's so hard because he sounds so convincing, and then I start to feel so guilty for "wandering away". The emotional battle is enormous. This man quoted things like-with God all things are possible-and in mind I am thinking-"yeah, except saving all mankind, that's impossible for him." And he said God was more powerful than Satan-except he forgot to mention that Satan is winning this battle for souls right now-because narrow is the way and few there be that find it. How can we consider God as the victor if most of his created beings go to hell forever-how is that victory over sin and death? I have even heard preachers say that people in hell will still sin and be vile creatures-but then where is the victory over sin? Where in the Bible does it say that when God died on the cross and rose again he got victory over some sins and some deaths? Does it not simply say-sin and death?? Oh death where is thy sting-oh grave where is thy victory. Well according to christianity, death is stinging more people than it's not and the grave is winning over more people than it's not. Okay, I think I am blowing a little steam. I just need strength. I wish I had more time to come here and share in the discussions with others. I so appreciate the encouragement-there is no one else for that right now, humanly speaking. I truly believe that with God ALL things are possible-including the defeat of Satan and the salvation of all mankind.
Full of gratitude for you all,
Beth
aqrinc:
Hi Beth,
If you continue by making sure every Scripture quote from any preacher has another Spiritual Witness in The Scriptures. Then you will have no problem in overcoming the heresies of this Religious system by The Blood Of The Lamb, and by The Word Of His Testimony.
1Pe 1: 17-21 (CLV)
17 And if you are invoking the Father, Who is judging impartially according to each one's work, you may behave, for the time of your sojourn, with fear,
18 being aware that not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, were you ransomed from your vain behavior, handed down by tradition from the fathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a flawless and unspotted lamb,
20 foreknown, indeed, before the disruption of the world, yet manifested in the last times because of you, who through Him are believing in God,
21 Who rouses Him from among the dead and is giving Him glory, so that your faith and expectation is to be in God."
Witness
Rev 12: 10-11 (CLV)
10 And I hear a loud voice in heaven saying, "Just now came the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brethren was cast out, who was accusing them before our God day and night."
11 And they conquer him through the blood of the Lambkin, and through the word of their testimony, and they love not their soul, until death."
george :).
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