Carrying On.

[larissa4676]

Hey Everyone.

Remember how Elijah passed his mantle (or whatever is was) to Elisha before he died? Is it still possible to do that today? So that someone carry's on where one left off? I guess I need to study that. If anyone has helpful Scripts...thanks!

Larissa

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Larissa,

I believe this is what you are referring to;

2Ki 2:9  And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2Ki 2:10  And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

This could represent (as a type/shadow) of what was yet to come, remember after the crucifixion and ascension when Jesus presented Himself to His disciples? They all witnessed first hand that indeed He had risen! There was one exception though, Thomas had yet to actually see Him with his own eyes;

John 20

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Contemplating on this one might say that those chosen who were born after the disciples may have been given a "double portion" of faith (Spirit) to believe the things the disciples who walked with Him as He was on this earth saw with their own two eyes and felt with their own hands.

Of course the above verses from 2Kings can also (undoubtedly so) have other perhaps deeper implications as all scripture is multi layered.

Peace,

Joe

[G. Driggs]

Wow! Now that is something to contemplate, sounds good to me Joe.

You have heard it been said that, " seeing is believing" but it seems the Truth is "believing IS seeing".

A double portion? Can I get a triple? Lord knows I need it.

1Pe 1:8  Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

[firefly77]

A double portion? Can I get a triple? Lord knows I need it.

G. Driggs:
I am happy to see your enthusiasm... Are you willing to pay the price? Not to discourage you, brother.

2Ki 2:10  And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

I wonder if he was talking about the price one has to pay to receive a double portion. I hope I am not speculating, but for the first time, I see this sentence in a different light altogether.
Angie

[bunnylife]

I wonder if he was talking about the price one has to pay to receive a double portion. I hope I am not speculating, but for the first time, I see this sentence in a different light altogether.
Angie

Angie, reading what you wrote and others these scriptures come to mind about paying the price.

Luke 12:47-48 (KJV)

47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, - [A prolonged form of a primary verb (which is used as an alternate in most of the tenses); to give (used in a very wide application, properly or by implication, literally or figuratively; greatly modified by the connection): - adventure, bestow, bring forth, commit, deliver (up), give, grant, hinder, make, minister, number, offer, have power, put, receive, set, shew, smite (+ with the hand), strike (+ with the palm of the hand), suffer, take, utter, yield.]

of him shall be much required:- [Of uncertain affinity; to seek (literally or figuratively); specifically (by Hebraism) to worship (God), or (in a bad sense) to plot (against life): - be (go) about, desire, endeavour, enquire (for), require, (X will) seek (after, for, means).]

and to whom men have committed - [to place alongside, that is, present (food, truth); by implication to deposit (as a trust or for protection): - allege, commend, commit (the keeping of), put forth, set before]

much, of him they will ask the more. -[ more superabundant (in number, degree or character): - more abundant, greater (much) more, overmuch.]


2 Cor. 12:7-10
"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

Paul paid the price for the high calling of God... to gain Christ (the prize). I believe that Father God will always raise someone up that is paying the price to have the knowledge of the Truth and walk in the Truth to teach others in each generation. They guard the Truth in Love that it would not be corrupted by any man-made traditions. We are a peculiar people.. not of the world or Christendom. We do walk by faith (not our own faith - a gift from God) and led the spirit to be sons and daughters of God by the grace (chastening) of Daddy God.  It is a hard thing.. but with God all things are possible.

In His Joy,
Bunni

[hillsbororiver]

Wow! Now that is something to contemplate, sounds good to me Joe.

You have heard it been said that, " seeing is believing" but it seems the Truth is "believing IS seeing".

A double portion? Can I get a triple? Lord knows I need it.

1Pe 1:8  Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

Hi G,

I like what you said about "believing is seeing" yes, that is the truth!

We all are familiar with the principle in scriptures of the "many called, few are chosen." There is another consistent theme as well, "the first shall be last and the last shall be first." We see this throughout His Word where a better inheritance is given to the younger rather than the elder. Who was the elder when Elisha walked with Elijah?

Could one of the type/shadows contained within these verses in 2Kings represent the OT prophets not getting the better promise? That those who came after John the Baptist received an inheritance that was not available to those who preceded Christ?

Is it possible there is a better promise for (a more profound faith through His Spirit) for a few of those who came after the apostles?

We see in John 20 that Christ Himself blessed those who would believe without seeing, it is food for thought and careful consideration when our Lord pronounces a special blessing..... isn't it? 

Peace,

Joe

     

[hillsbororiver]

Before anyone starts thinking "oh, there he goes again, off on one of his tangents," I want to ask what has been the ultimate hope of believers for the last 2000 years? You could say "to be alive at His return." Right?

Every generation since Christ ascended has had this hope but yet none have had this hope realized, obviously they who are the latest, the youngest (last as in "last shall be first") of all the believers who ever lived are the ones who will see Him without tasting death. Quite a promise!

Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Luk 9:27  But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Peace,

Joe

P.S. The root or original Greek for "standing" used in Matthew 28 & Luke 9 can be used in a figurative sense.

G2476
ἵστημι
histēmi
his'-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087.
 

[firefly77]

I believe that Father God will always raise someone up that is paying the price to have the knowledge of the Truth and walk in the Truth to teach others in each generation. They guard the Truth in Love that it would not be corrupted by any man-made traditions.

Bunni: You are right... The story of Elijah is an example of this.

1 Kings 19:14 He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too."

15 The LORD said to him, "Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. 16 Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. 17 Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu. 18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him."

Yes, Thank God, He is control!

[aqrinc]

We are a peculiar people.. not of the world or Christendom. We do walk by faith (not our own faith - a gift from God) and led by the spirit to be sons and daughters of God by the grace (chastening) of Daddy God.  It is a hard thing.. but with God all things are possible.

Bunni,

Thank you for putting those words together, we need to always see this picture even when the flames are 7 times hotter than normal. Here below is an example of just such Trust when the chastening is really life threateningly dire. HE, GOD WILL Bring us through the fire without a hair singed or even the smell of fire on us.

Dan 3: 10-30 (ASV)
10  Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, shall fall down and worship the golden image;
11  and whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, shall be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
12  There are certain Jews whom thou hast appointed over the affairs of the province of Babylon: Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

13  Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
14  Nebuchadnezzar answered and said unto them, Is it of purpose, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, that ye serve not my god, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?

15  Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made, well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that god that shall deliver you out of my hands?

16  Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer thee in this matter.
17  If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace; and he will deliver us out of thy hand, O king.
18  But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
19  Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace seven times more than it was wont to be heated.

20  And he commanded certain mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.
21  Then these men were bound in their hosen, their tunics, and their mantles, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
22  Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.

23  And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24  Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste: he spake and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25  He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the aspect of the fourth is like a son of the gods.

26  Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace: he spake and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, ye servants of the Most High God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego came forth out of the midst of the fire.
27  And the satraps, the deputies, and the governors, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, that the fire had no power upon their bodies, nor was the hair of their head singed, neither were their hosen changed, nor had the smell of fire passed on them.

28  Nebuchadnezzar spake and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and have yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
29  Therefore I make a decree, that every people, nation, and language, which speak anything amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill; because there is no other god that is able to deliver after this sort.

30  Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the province of Babylon.

george.

[mharrell08]

Before anyone starts thinking "oh, there he goes again, off on one of his tangents," I want to ask what has been the ultimate hope of believers for the last 2000 years? You could say "to be alive at His return." Right?

Every generation since Christ ascended has had this hope but yet none have had this hope realized, obviously they who are the latest, the youngest (last as in "last shall be first") of all the believers who ever lived are the ones who will see Him without tasting death. Quite a promise!

Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Luk 9:27  But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Peace,

Joe

P.S. The root or original Greek for "standing" used in Matthew 28 & Luke 9 can be used in a figurative sense.

G2476
ἵστημι
histēmi
his'-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087.

Great post Joe...here's a few more

1 Cor 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Matt 16:17-18  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell [Gk. Hades (also known as Sheol, grave, state of the dead)] shall NOT prevail against it.


Whoops, just noticed you had same Corinthians verse 


Marques

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Mark,

It sure does, for those who were standing there (physically) at that moment in time, absolutely!

Does that exclude those who are "standing" (see Greek root) with Christ in spirit?

Wasn't the transfiguration a shadow of what is to come at His return?

Peace,

Joe

[mharrell08]

Joe,

  Yes, I agree with what you say .I guess my response was based on what Jesus had said to his apostles at the moment of which he spoke,that they would not die of the physical death before he would show them in a vision the Kingdom and how this would be seen. Thanks...

Peace...Mark

Hey Mark,

I'm sure Joe can speak for himself, but I think Joe is pointing out one of many 'multi-layered' truths that Jesus spoke of.

For example, Jesus told his disciples (not the multitude) in Matt 5:29-30 that if a member of their body should offend them, to cut it off and cast if from them.

Now Ray teaches from scripture what exactly 'cutting and casting off one's members' consist of. But he also teaches from scripture, that though Jesus was talking to his disciples, in that time 2000 or so years ago, he's talking and saying the same to us, right now. This is what I believe Joe is pointing out and other scriptures testify of the same.

If I'm off-base Joe, please feel free to correct.


Thanks,

Marques

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Mark & Marques,

Yes, my entire point was all about the richness, depths, textures and multiple layers of Truth contained within His Word. It speaks to every generation of believers.

Thank you Marques, I couldn't have explained it better myself! 

Peace,

Joe

[Marky Mark]

Marques,I understand now what Joe was talking of ,all of Jesus Words are of Spirit and not of the physical,sorry Joe,I misinterpreted the meaning, of your post.


Peace...Mark

[hillsbororiver]

Hi again Mark,

This goes right along with what is written here;

1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

And here;

Ecc 1:9  The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Peace,

Joe

[Dave in Tenn]

Let me go another step.  The Transfiguration also happens today in the Spirit!  It happens to US as we are in Him, being changed.

It happens in us as observers/participants in identification with Peter, James, and John (the few) watching the law and the prophets (Moses and Elijah) fade, leaving Christ alone.  

It also is a picture of what WE see in Christ as He is glorified in Scripture and we come to know Him more and more as He IS.  Brothers, it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we KNOW that when He appears, we shall be like Him...for we shall see Him as He IS.

Coming to Truth has been in the largest part a 're-seeing' of Christ.  He is the Saviour of all Sinners, willing and able to do His Will--NOT the half-monster, dithering 'image' of God being preached by the churches.  HE doesn't change...WE change, and the way we see Him changes.  That's exactly what happened to Peter, James, and John.  That's what is happening to US.

So yes, the scripture is many-layered when those Spiritual eyes are working.

Absolutely the focus cannot be on us.  Not our feelings, not our religion, not our current understanding.  

Don't tell this to anyone until after He is resurrected.    

[hillsbororiver]

Excellent addition Dave!

Beautiful and awesome points Brother!

Peace,

Joe

[aqrinc]

Let me go another step.  The Transfiguration also happens today in the Spirit!  It happens to US as we are in Him, being changed.

It happens in us as observers/participants in identification with Peter, James, and John (the few) watching the law and the prophets (Moses and Elijah) fade, leaving Christ alone.  

It also is a picture of what WE see in Christ as He is glorified in Scripture and we come to know Him more and more as He IS.  Brothers, it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we KNOW that when He appears, we shall be like Him...for we shall see Him as He IS.

Coming to Truth has been in the largest part a 're-seeing' of Christ.  He is the Saviour of all Sinners, willing and able to do His Will--NOT the half-monster, dithering 'image' of God being preached by the churches.  HE doesn't change...WE change, and the way we see Him changes.  That's exactly what happened to Peter, James, and John.  That's what is happening to US.

So yes, the scripture is many-layered when those Spiritual eyes are working.

Absolutely the focus cannot be on us.  Not our feelings, not our religion, not our current understanding.  

Don't tell this to anyone until after He is resurrected.    

Dave,

I could have used your admonition last night. I had a very fair encounter, 4 Bible and trinity Believing christians vs george. I was told many ways and times to repent of my ways and follow them. Below are a few samples of a 3 hour twitter discussion with the 4.

All remarks below are from one or other of the 4.

You can see my side of the conversation on my twitter page under updates http://twitter.com/George_Tr .

1. hisfriendlyway@George_Tr I would say to you, receive Christ and his spirit. Become a fool, for ur wisdom pollutes ur understanding. Love God w/ everything

2. hisfriendlyway@George_Tr The words I speak are spirit and they are true. But you pious spirit of the world is easily offended, b/c u do not know him.

3. hisfriendlyway@George_Tr You speak but say nothing. There is no spirit, no life in ur words. You strain at gnat n swallow a camel. The Spirit gives life.

4. hisfriendlyway@George_Tr You twist what you cannot untangle. You speak of age we speak words of spirit and truth. See if your faith can save u on that day

5. kat24k@George_Tr but it seems to me thats what you are doing trying to convince that everyone will be saved. thats not biblical.

6. kat24k@George_Tr because your are taking the verses out of context. i can pick all kinds of verses out and make sound however i want it to.

7. kat24k@George_Tr im sorry but single verse picking to me is a distorion of the whole word of god rightly divided.

8. therealgodFORGIVEN | RT: @George_Tr Denial of a clear Biblical doctrine like the trinity puts you in the cat..

9. witnesses@George_Tr Denial of a clear Biblical doctrine like the trinity puts you in the category of cult. Read the resources I provided & repent.

10. witnesses@George_Tr The URL you posted is full of heresy. First and foremost you need to study the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity.

The url i posted is: http://bibletruths.com/

george. .

[Beloved]

Since people will not take the time to study and read the doctrine they say they believe in ......why would they read the material at BT .com

Planting seed with twitter....seems a lot like ploughing a field with a tooth pick.

Only those that God has prepared will recieve. In most case asking questions are better than giving answers.

Is trinity in the bible...okay that is too open....how about

Who and where did that word trinity come actually come from?
Were the first century believers then heretics since this did doctrine not exist then ?

Do the Scriptures lie ?....Or  can you reconcile these pairs of Scriptures?.
(Mat 1:20)  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(Luk 1:35)  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

and

Rom 15:6  That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

2Co 1:3  Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

Since Jesus is the Son of God then how can can the Holy Spirit conceive if the Father is said to be His Father and everywhere in Scirpture He acknowleges Him as His Father?

Now here are two verses that are way too advanced for your twitter friends

Joh 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Joh 20:22  And when He had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:   
    He is there and they are getting the holy Spirit

They seem contradictory (only to a trinitarian) ...but they are not

beloved

[Kat]

2Ki 2:9  And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2Ki 2:10  And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

Contemplating on this one might say that those chosen who were born after the disciples may have been given a "double portion" of faith (Spirit) to believe the things the disciples who walked with Him as He was on this earth saw with their own two eyes and felt with their own hands. 

Is it possible there is a better promise for (a more profound faith through His Spirit) for a few of those who came after the apostles?

Hi Joe, I would say a prime example of this would be Paul.  We just do not know about those down through the generations that may also have needed and was given an extra portion of spirit to endure whatever they may have been going through either.  Just saw your comment and was thinking Paul surely fit that "double portion."

mercy, peace and love
Kat