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Sinning before birth?

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deftarchangel:
A point made in an article that got me thinking about John 9:2 :

And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

How could the blind man have sinned before he was even born?  I know we are all born with sin, but the question suggests a sinful act (or life) had been committed, and then the punishment for it (the man being born with blindness) had been meted out.  Where did the disciples get the idea that such a thing was even possible?  That's like something out of the doctrine of reincarnation or something like that (having sinned in a past life).  And even the Lord Christ didn't really invalidate either possibility.  He just said neither of those options was the reason for the man's blindness.  He didn't correct them on the technicalities of their beliefs.   ???

Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

Thanks.

 :)   

NoviceBeliever:
Deftarchangel:

An excerpt from Ray's Emails that may help you:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7769.0.html

 Illness
« on: July 25, 2008, 02:55:22 PM » 

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Could you please comment on Henry W. Wright's  assertion that all physical illness has its origins in sin?



Dear Reader:  Certainly.  It is an amazing thing to me how that Christians will often spend many hours, years, and whole lifetimes, researching and writing books, etc., using as a premise something that can be totally invalidated by 30 seconds in the Scriptures.

Jesus Christ "knew NO sin" (II Cor. 5:20). Contrary to those deranged heretics who think this verse teaches that Jesus was the very personification of sin.  No, Jesus was "WITHOUT sin" (Heb. 4:15).  Now then, did Jesus ever experience sickness or disease?  Yes, matter of fact, He did.  Isaiah is a prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, and here is what it says:

Isa 53:3 He is despised959 and rejected2310 of men;376 a man376 of sorrows,4341 and acquainted3045 with grief:2483...." Strong's #2483, choliy, SICKNESS, DISEASE."

So much for Wright's assertion that "...all physical illness has its origins in SIN."

See also:  Luke 4:23--Why would Christ the Great Physician need to be "healed?"

Notice also:

Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents [that is 'sinned to cause this blindness']: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

God be with you,

Ray

mharrell08:
Deftarchangel,

Here is an excerpt from Lake of Fire series 16-C (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html):

THE SIN OF A MAN BORN BLIND:

"And as Jesus passed by, He saw a man which was blind from his birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?" (John 9:1-2)

What? How, pray tell, could this blind man be responsible for his own blindness when we are plainly told that he was born blind? Not only did the disciples believe the pagan doctrine that the soul is immortal, but they believed that souls could transmigrate from one body to another body.

The idea that the disciples are presenting to Jesus is the pagan doctrine known today as "The transmigration of souls." This doctrine teaches that souls do not just live on, as in "immortal" after death, in some fabled hellhole of eternal torture, or some heaven on a rock in outer space, but rather that at death, the immortal soul migrates to inhabit the body of another person about to born into the world.

Many in the world today continue to believe in reincarnation and the transmigration of souls. There are some pagans who believe that the souls of the dead can also reappear in the life of a pig, snake, nor some other animal.

Seriously, why would Christ’s disciples believe that a man could have sinned before he was ever born?

But what is even more remarkable is the fact that Jesus did not correct them, but rather went along with and acquiesced to their pagan notions. Jesus did not demean their foolish statement or their foolish belief, but countered with:

"Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents…" (John 9:3).

Jesus spoke the truth, for truly this man had not sinned (however, Jesus did not inform them that it would have been impossible for him to sin before he was born). But Jesus did not expose this pagan heresy to His disciples at this time. For what possible reason would Jesus want to keep His own disciples deceived?

This entire paper will help much in understanding as these scriptures:

Proverbs 26

v24  Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

v25  Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.


Thanks,

Marques

Kat:
Several of the commentaries mention that it was a fairly common belief at that time of the transmigration of the soul and that is where the question from the disciples arises.  

Here is what was said in Adam Clark's Commentary of the Bible.

Joh 9:2 -
Who did sin, this man, or his parents - The doctrine of the transmigration of souls appears to have been an article in the creed of the Pharisees, and it was pretty general both among the Greeks and the Asiatics. The Pythagoreans believed the souls of men were sent into other bodies for the punishment of some sin which they had committed in a pre-existent state. This seems to have been the foundation of the disciples question to our Lord. Did this man sin in a pre-existent state, that he is punished in this body with blindness? Or, did his parents commit some sin, for which they are thus plagued in their offspring?

Most of the Asiatic nations have believed in the doctrine of transmigration. The Hindoos still hold it; and profess to tell precisely the sin which the person committed in another body, by the afflictions which he endures in this:
v
It may be just necessary to say, that some of the rabbins believed that it was possible for an infant to sin in the womb, and to be punished with some bodily infirmity in consequence. See several examples in Lightfoot on this place.
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Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

deftarchangel:
That's great everyone.  That helps a lot.

Thanks very much.   :D

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