Fear or Reverence; does it Matter?.

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aqrinc:

The comment in maroon below, from TheRysta on 6-24-09 is prompting me to post some of my understanding. The subject has weighed heavily on me for a while, i understand the fearful and timid will all have their part in the LOF. So why is it that many; not all Bible translations use the (Fear) word instead of the more correct translation (Reverence), in these very important verses.

This is not a completed study; but a work in progress i would like to share, please feel free to comment or add to the discussion.

Reverence: rev·er·ence (rvr-ns)

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reverence

1. A feeling of profound awe and respect and often love; veneration. See Synonyms at honor.
2. An act showing respect, especially a bow or curtsy.
3. The state of being revered.
4. Reverence Used as a form of address for certain members of the Christian clergy: Your Reverence. (Definetely not Scriptural)

tr.v. rev·er·enced, rev·er·enc·ing, rev·er·enc·es
To consider or treat with profound awe and respect; venerate.

--- Quote ---from: TheRysta
I don't know what the word 'reverence' actually means but I assume that you mean that I should be humble to God and such. Is this humble simply to accept that he always knows best and not to get into a row about it, or is this humble all the way to the extent that you can't treat prayer like conversation.

--- End quote ---
I have been doing a word study of the uses of the words (fear & Reverence) in the OT & NT. It appears again that the translators did a deliberate hatchet job on use of this word to change our understanding of GOD And HIS Relationship with us (humanity)

The NT has 78 occurrences of use of the word (fear), so far i have found a definite bias in the OT Bible, still working on the NT.

Many places in the OT where the word (fear H3372) is used the better word is actually (Reverence Reverent or Revere). In the old testament (KJV+) there are 307 verses where the word (fear) is used.

At least 70% or more of the time it is (fear H3372, H3373 or H3374), in the majority of cases (Revere or Reverence or Reverent) is a much better word than fear to get the correct meaning.

(GNB) has 22 uses of the word Reverence in place of Fear. I pulled 7 verses and matched them with 7 verses from (CLV), bold are mine for emphasis.

Job 28:28 (GNB)
God said to us humans, "To be wise, you must have reverence for the Lord. To understand, you must turn from evil."

Job 28:28 (CLV)
Job 28:28 And He said to mankind, Behold, the fear of Yahweh, it is wisdom, And to withdraw from evil is understanding.

2Ch 19:9 (GNB)
He gave them the following instructions: "You must perform your duties in reverence for the LORD, faithfully obeying him in everything you do.

2Ch 19:9 (CLV)
and he lays a charge upon them, saying, `Thus do you do in the fear of Yahweh, in faithfulness, and with a perfect heart,

Psa 5:7 (GNB)
But because of your great love I can come into your house; I can worship in your holy Temple and bow down to you in reverence.

Psa 5:7 (CLV)
As for me, in the vastness of Your benignity I shall enter Your House; I shall worship toward Your holy Temple in devout fear of You.

Pro 1:7 (GNB)
To have knowledge, you must first have reverence for the LORD. Stupid people have no respect for wisdom and refuse to learn.

Pro 1:7 (CLV)
The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of knowledge; The foolish despise wisdom and discipline.

Pro 15:33 (GNB)
Reverence for the LORD is an education in itself. You must be humble before you can ever receive honors.

Pro 15:33 (CLV)
The fear of Yahweh is the discipline of wisdom, And before glory goes humility."

Isa 33:6 (GNB)
and give stability to the nation. He always protects his people and gives them wisdom and knowledge. Their greatest treasure is their reverence for the LORD.

Isa 33:6 (CLV)
It comes to be the faithfulness of your eras. The safeguard of salvation is wisdom and knowledge. The fear of Yahweh, it is its treasure."

Zep 3:7 (GNB)
I thought that then my people would have reverence for me and accept my discipline, that they would never forget the lesson I taught them. But soon they were behaving as badly as ever.

Zep 3:7 (CLV)
I say, Yea, you shall fear Me; you shall take discipline. And all which I have visited upon her is not being cut off from her eyes. Being prepared, they rose early; they ruined all their practices."

H3372
ירא
yârê'
yaw-ray'
A primitive root; to fear; morally to revere; causatively to frighten: - affright, be (make) afraid, dread (-ful), (put in) fear (-ful, -fully, -ing). (be had in) reverence (-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).

H3373
ירא
yârê'
yaw-ray'
From H3372; fearing; morally reverent: - afraid, fear (-ful).

H3374
יראה
yir'âh
yir-aw'
Feminine of H3373; fear (also used as infinitive); morally reverence: - X dreadful, X exceedingly, fear (-fulness).

Lev 19:30
Ye shall keepH8104 (H853) my sabbaths,H7676 and (reverence H3372) my sanctuary:H4720 IH589 am the LORD.H3068

Lev 26:2
Ye shall keepH8104 (H853) my sabbaths,H7676 and (reverence H3372) my sanctuary:H4720 IH589 am the LORD.H3068

Est 3:5
And when HamanH2001 sawH7200 thatH3588 MordecaiH4782 bowedH3766 not,H369 nor did him (reverence, H7812) then was HamanH2001 fullH4390 of wrath.H2534

Psa 89:7
GodH410 is greatlyH7227 to be fearedH6206 in the assemblyH5475 of the saints,H6918 and to be had in (reverence H3372) ofH5921 allH3605 them that are aboutH5439 him.

H6343
פּחד
pachad
pakh'-ad
From H6342; a (sudden) alarm (properly the object feared, by implication the feeling): - dread (-ful), fear, (thing) great [fear, -ly feared], terror.

H367
אמה אימה
'êymâh 'êmâh
ay-maw', ay-maw'
From the same as H366; fright; concretely an idol (as a bugbear): - dread. fear, horror, idol, terrible, terror.

H2342
חיל חוּל
chûl chîyl
khool, kheel
A primitive root; properly to twist or whirl (in a circular or spiral manner), that is, (specifically) to dance, to writhe in pain (especially of parturition) or fear; figuratively to wait, to pervert: - bear, (make to) bring forth, (make to) calve, dance, drive away, fall grievously (with pain), fear, form, great, grieve, (be) grievous, hope, look, make, be in pain, be much (sore) pained, rest, shake, shapen, (be) sorrow (-ful), stay, tarry, travail (with pain), tremble, trust, wait carefully (patiently), be wounded.

H6206
ערץ
‛ârats
aw-rats'
A primitive root; to awe or (intransitively) to dread; hence to harass: - be affrighted (afraid, dread, feared, terrified), break, dread, fear, oppress, prevail, shake terribly.

H2844
חת
chath
khath
From H2865; concretely crushed; also afraid; abstractly terror: - broken, dismayed, dread, fear.

H4172
מורה מרא מורא
môrâ' môrâ' môrâh
mo-raw', mo-raw', mo-raw'
From H3372; fear; by implication a fearful thing or deed: - dread, (that ought to be) fear (-ed), terribleness, terror. (This is a Stretch)

H7461
רעדה רעד
ra‛ad re‛âdâh
rah'-ad, reh-aw-daw'
From H7460; a shudder: - fear, trembling. (Like a woman in travail)

H6342
פּחד
pâchad
paw-khad'
A primitive root; to be startled (by a sudden alarm); hence to fear in general: - be afraid, stand in awe, (be in) fear, make to shake.

H4034
מגורה
megôrâh
meg-o-raw'
Feminine of H4032; affright: - fear.

H6427
פּלּצוּת
pallâtsûth
pal-law-tsooth'
From H6426; affright: - fearfulness, horror, trembling.

H6206
ערץ
‛ârats
aw-rats'
A primitive root; to awe or (intransitively) to dread; hence to harass: - be affrighted (afraid, dread, feared, terrified), break, dread, fear, oppress, prevail, shake terribly.

H7374
רטט
reṭeṭ
reh'-tet
From an unused root meaning to tremble; terror: - fear.

H1763
דּחל
dechal
deh-khal'
(Chaldee); corresponding to H2119; to slink, that is, (by implication) to fear, or (causatively) be formidable: - make afraid, dreadful, fear, terrible.

H1481
גּוּר
gûr
goor
A primitive root; properly to turn aside from the road (for a lodging or any other purpose), that is, sojourn (as a guest); also to shrink, fear (as in a strange place); also to gather for hostility (as afraid): - abide, assemble, be afraid, dwell, fear, gather (together), inhabitant, remain, sojourn, stand in awe, (be) stranger, X surely.

george. ???

Marky Mark:
Hello George.
Was wondering if this email to Ray helps.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,720.0.html

Dear Chris:
In the Hebrew Old Testament we have the word "fear" often translated from three words which are virutally synonymous--Strong's #3372, #3373, and #3374.

According to context it can mean the emotion of being freightened or in the positive emotion of showing reverence.

Exodus 20:20 is a good example of both: "

"And Moses said unto the people, fear [don't be freightened] not: for God is come to prove you, and that his Fear [reverence] may be before your faces, that ye sin not. "

God be with you,

Ray

Peace...Mark

mharrell08:
Hello George,

Here is at least one example of fear that is NOT to be present in the saints:

fear [Gk. deilos]: fearful, timid

Scriptural examples:

Matt 8:25-26 His [Jesus] disciples came to Him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. And He saith unto them, Why are ye fearful [Gk. deilos], O ye of little faith? Then He arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Mark 8:39-40 He [Jesus] arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And He said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Rev 21:8-9 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful [Gk. deilos], and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Also, there are other Greek words translated as both fear and reverence...each one must be taken in regards to the spiritual message/intent of each scripture (with of course 2-3 spiritual witnesses & matches).

For example, the Greek word 'phobeō' is in the NT 93 times and translated as 'fear' 62 times...but only once for reverence. But look at these many example when 'phobeō' is used in a Godly way:

Acts 10:22 ...they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth [phobeō] God...

Acts 10:35 ...in every nation he that feareth [phobeō] him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him...

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing [phobeō] God;

But these are few...most of them (including almost all in Matt, Mark, Luke, & John) are of a negative connotation.

I think fear is similar to our translations of love from the ancient Greek...there are much more ancient Greek definitions and words for 'fear' than what we are used to using in our English.

And getting back to your original subject, I think it definitely matters...similar to many the definitions of 'love' which Ray goes over a few in his study (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html).

The scriptures admonish us to 'fear' (have reverence, respect) in terms of matters of honoring the Lord but also admonish us to NOT 'fear' in matters of not living by faith, not looking to God but instead ourselves, etc. Each spiritual admonition needs to be looked at in the entire message to get a proper perceptive, I believe.

Hope this helps,

Marques

aqrinc:

--- Quote from: Marky Mark on June 25, 2009, 01:20:00 PM ---Hello George.
Was wondering if this email to Ray helps.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,720.0.html

Dear Chris:
In the Hebrew Old Testament we have the word "fear" often translated from three words which are virtually synonymous--Strong's #3372, #3373, and #3374.

According to context it can mean the emotion of being frightened or in the positive emotion of showing reverence.

Exodus 20:20 is a good example of both: "

"And Moses said unto the people, fear [don't be freightened] not: for God is come to prove you, and that his Fear [reverence] may be before your faces, that ye sin not. "

God be with you,

Ray

Peace...Mark

--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---And getting back to your original subject, I think it definitely matters...similar to many the definitions of 'love' which Ray goes over a few in his study (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html).

The scriptures admonish us to 'fear' (have reverence, respect) in terms of matters of honoring the Lord but also admonish us to NOT 'fear' in matters of not living by faith, not looking to God but instead ourselves, etc. Each spiritual admonition needs to be looked at in the entire message to get a proper perceptive, I believe.

Hope this helps,

Marques

--- End quote ---

Mark, Marques,

That is the very reason for my current research and study. For years i have read the Bible and wondered actually could see that many times in Scripture; fear was not the appropriate word to use in certain verses.

Just could not see it because i was always told never to question the Bible, because it is the innerrant word of GOD. Well since knowing that Bibles are translated by humans that was a big question that had to be swallowed for lack of better understanding.

We need to learn The Scriptures and question all traditions of man, whenever and wherever it it rears its Beastly head. Now These Scriptures below are making a lot more sense. The Beast is never dead until Jesus Christ Returns, we will always marvel at it rising again and again, when we buy the world and things seen.

Rev 13:3 (MKJV)
And I saw one of its heads as having been slain to death, and its deadly wound was healed. And all the earth marveled after the beast.

Rev 13:12 (MKJV)
And it exercises all the authority of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and those dwelling in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

george. :)

24 Grams:
Hi all.

Nice post there george regarding the beast.

But Pro 1:7 did it for me. The explanation at the end of the verse (regarding fools) suggests it must mean reverence...

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