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[meefsgirl]

I believe the Lord has made it clear to me that I must not post in orthodox christian forums... for now.

It was made clear to me today. There is sooooo much difference in the way we see scripture... we are poles apart, eg. someone (an ETer) said in a thread concerning universalism today that 'after all, the beast and the false prophet are men'.

It seems that Orthodox Christianity sees scripture so literally... with such a carnal mind, that to try and talk to them is like talking to a brick wall.

Have any of you been shown not to post in Orthodox Christian forums for this reason? Was it only for a season, or for good?

blessings
meefsgirl..

[Marky Mark]

I believe the Lord has made it clear to me that I must not post in orthodox christian forums... for now.

It was made clear to me today. There is sooooo much difference in the way we see scripture... we are poles apart, eg. someone (an ETer) said in a thread concerning universalism today that 'after all, the beast and the false prophet are men'.

It seems that Orthodox Christianity sees scripture so literally... with such a carnal mind, that to try and talk to them is like talking to a brick wall.
Have any of you been shown not to post in Orthodox Christian forums for this reason? Was it only for a season, or for good?

blessings
meefsgirl..

Hello meefsgirl,I think you answered your own question.



Peace...Mark

[aqrinc]

Hi meefsgirl,

Going into the lions den willingly without proper prep is asking to be devoured. The masses of Christianity are still blind, GOD Does not need us to evangelize, but HE Will use whom HE Will for HIS Purpose.

It is a daunting task sometimes to even think we can walk into the den waving Red meat around our neck and not get savaged. But our job now is to:

2Ti 2:15 (MKJV)
Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Right here is a story of GOD Preparing Daniel which speaks loud and clearly to believers. Also see how well prepared the enemies of GOD are, to follow their orders from the beast within. Using trickery and the introduction of new laws to suppress any who would Worship The Creator rather than the creature. (

Dan 6: 1-5 (MKJV)
1  It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom a hundred and twenty satraps, that they might be over the whole kingdom.
2  And over them were three presidents (Daniel was one of them), so that these satraps might give account to them, and the king should have no loss.

3  Then this Daniel was made overseer of the presidents and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king was planning to set him over all the kingdom.

4  Then the presidents and rulers sought to find occasion against Daniel concerning the kingdom. But they could find no occasion or fault, because he was faithful. Neither was there any error or fault found in him.
5  Then these men said, We shall not find any occasion against this Daniel unless we find it against him concerning the Law of his God.

This is a perfect example of GOD Causing Things to happen a certain way to Teach humanity a Truth, that still only the ones HE Has unblinded will see.

Dan 6: 5-9 (MKJV)
6  Then these presidents and rulers assembled to the king, and said this to him: King Darius, live forever. (for the eons)

7  All the presidents of the kingdom, the prefects, and the satraps, and the officials and governors, have planned together to establish a royal law, and to make a strong ban that whoever shall ask a petition of any god or man for thirty days, except from you, O king, he shall be thrown into the den of lions.

8  Now, O king, establish the ban and sign the writing, so that it may not be changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians which cannot be changed.
9  Therefore King Darius signed the writing and the ban.

When GOD Is Ready To use us, we will have been prepared by HIM. Notice what The King says to Daniel below.

Dan 6: 15-17 (MKJV)
15  Then these men met before the king and said to the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is that no ban nor law which the king establishes may be changed.

16  Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions' den. The king answered and said to Daniel, Your God, whom you always serve, will deliver you.

17  And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den. And the king sealed it with his own signet, and with the signet of his lords, that the purpose might not be changed concerning Daniel.

The nature of the beast is to use what appears to be overwhelming power and force of human law to stamp out any opposition to its authority.

Dan 6: 19-24 (MKJV)
19  Then the king arose very early in the morning and hurried to the lions' den.
20  And when he came to the den, he cried with a grieved voice to Daniel. The king spoke and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is your God whom you always serve able to deliver you from the lions?

21  Then Daniel said to the king, O king, live forever. (for the eons)
22  My God has sent His Angel, and has shut the lions' mouths, and they have not hurt me, because before Him purity was found in me. And also before you, O king, I have done no harm.

23  Then the king was exceedingly glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of hurt was found on him, because he trusted in his God.

24  And the king commanded, and they brought those men who had accused Daniel, and they threw them into the lions' den; them, their sons, and their wives. And the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces before they came to the bottom of the den.

So we need to learn patience and longsuffering, to be ready when GOD Sends us. In the end we see exactly what GOD intended in the first place:

Rom 8:28 (CLV)
Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose"

george.

[Ninny]

Wow! George, good!! Thanks...
Kathy

[Craig]

Sort of what George touched on.  If you walk into the lion's den or fiery furnace on your own you will be devoured and burned.  If God puts you there then you will be given the grace and wisdom to withstand them. 

Luke 21
13 It shall turn out unto you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer:
15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay.

I never understood why man feels such a need to convince others he is right.

Craig

[Marky Mark]

I never understood why man feels such a need to convince others he is right.

Craig

Craig,because what fun would it be to try and convince somebody that you[me,us] are wrong 


Peace...Mark

[lferretj]

I have found that when talking to others about Universalism, even when they say they would like to know more about it, really they don't.  They have too many biasis and can't see what your talking about or rather don't want to see your point of view.  Just the other day I was talking to my dad because he expressed interest and wanted to know what I was studying.  We talked but eventually when we disagreed, and I tried to say it another way he eventually just said I needed to pray more and walked off.  I was kinda shocked because he asked me and then didn't actually want to hear what I said.  As for posting  on Orthodox Christian forums I havn't had any experience.  I was talking with my old pastor but like you said we hit a brick wall.  Mostly because of context and translation issues.  I changed my approach with my old pastor--now I just ask questions from the Orthodox Christian POV and see how they answer.  Then watch how they explain away so many scriptures or just say we can't know the answer we just need faith and believe that everything will be all right.  It only affirms the Ultimate Reconcilliation view in my mind, that and I am really curious about their answers since their are so many views on such topics as the age of accountability, trinity, tithing, etc, etc, etc.  And each church validates it in their mind with a scripture and all think they are correct.   Their really is no use arguing with them as you've found out and as Ray has attested to in his replies to countless e-mails.  As for the need to convince others that we are right I don't believe that is the goal of most who try to share.  I would have to say that we want to share not to boost our ego in being right but sincerely wanting to help the individual find the truth and experience the freedom it brings.  But like my dad still says "you can't help anyone who doesn't want to be helped."
  lferretj

[Craig]

Craig,because what fun would it be to try and convince somebody that you[me,us] are wrong

I find that I don't have to convince people of that.

Craig

[Ninny]

Funny how that works, isn't it Craig?
Kathy

[aqrinc]

More like you can't help anyone who does not even know they need help. That is why GOD Only Has Tasked Himself with that Job.

Isa 55:11
so shall be My word which shall fare forth from My mouth. It shall not return to Me empty, but rather, it does that which I desire, and prospers in that for which I sent it."

1Jn 4:14
And we have gazed upon Him, and are testifying that the Father has dispatched the Son, the Saviour of the world."

george.

[meee]

 meefgirl, I found this today as well:       "that to try and talk to them is like talking to a brick wall".      Best to leave it to God.
            hugs,meee

[G. Driggs]

Great topic meefsgirl.

When I go into an orthodox forum, it is my sincerest hope that at least one might recognize His (Jesus') voice, using Scriptures, and be lead to BT and the Truth. I always leave a link, either to Rays articles or the main site. Besides, who is better equipped, and ready to give an answer? Who has taught us all? Ray! I believe he is being taught by the Spirit, and in turn the Spirit teaches us through Ray. Ray teaches us how to "study to show thyself approved", which he (Ray) has learned from the Spirit. It all trickles down or up from the Rock, the Foundation, Jesus Christ.

So I agree, its very important to study, learn, grow, and be prepared. Once a particular "beam" has been removed from my own eye, I can see fit to help remove it from someone else eye, granted God is willing.

The majority of people I've shared with has truly been like hitting a brick wall, but still I hope maybe just one will see and hear. Usually if they dont listen after a couple exchanges I'll just "shake the dust of my feet" and move on. No point in staying around the same topic, debating, trying to prove I'm right, which is not the point. The point is God is right, and there is a remnant, the lost sheep, that will know and recognize His voice if they hear it, God willing.

There was a time when I wanted the "glory of men", to show them how smart I thought I was, just cause I got a little knowledge into me. I still have to remind myself not to grow and ego, or get puffed up, because nothing I say or do is of myself. All the glory is His, and no one else.

Question your motives, pray about them, is it to make yourself look good, or to make Him look good?

Remember, not too many will believe, just a few.

Once again, thanks for the great topic, and great answers all, I just had to agree.

Peace & Love, G.Driggs

[meefsgirl]

Thanks for all the great replies guys!

I joined that particular forum in 2004 when I had just come out of the Hebrew Roots movement. I also met my husband in there the same year, but it was in 2006 that I ventured to the unorthodox section of this forum to find a bunch of universalists talking to orthodox who went in there to argue. They also talked amongst themselves and I was hooked. It took me six months to finally say, yes, this is what I believe too... because I was so easily deceived.. especially after coming out of the Hebrew Roots movement.

So I understand how important it can be to share with the orthodox, as G Driggs said, and share I did. There was a bunch of us who use to flood the orthodox sections and start threads about it. We did one thread for 7000 posts early last year! But I also had not one of them genuinely question. I believe other UR's had one or two. I so much wanted them to 'see', and I found it hard to comprehend why they called me a heretic and an apostate... that's not what I thought when I read the UR's in the unorthodox section. I still find it strange that people are so anti... but I understand that God has blinded their eyes, and they can't see until He wants them to.

Since then I've felt the Lord pulling me back, and now He's told me to stop. Maybe it is for more preparation as you've all shared, maybe this time it's to go deeper. However, life experience at this time is extremely tough for me (and I'll share on that in another area soon) and I find it hard to go deeper... but it's His work after all.

Love all your replies guys!

[rockrdude]

I have found that I cannot even read or post in most forums where the members believe in Universal Salvation, or "UR". So many of them are filled with people who believe God will save everybody, which is good. But sometimes the amount of misinformation and false teaching for those who supposedly have their eyes and ears open staggers me to no end.

My life is busy enough where time to post anywhere is severely limited. I now spend my time here. God has proven to me time and time again that so much of what is shared here is real truth. Why bother with anything less than the truth? Between the forums and everything that Ray has provided for us to read, this place is a goldmine of good information and truth, and I thank God for Bible Truths as it is truly a blessing from God.

[meefsgirl]

Hmmm.. as a newbie here I'm starting to get a bit concerned with how much you all seem to put Ray on a pedestal. Do you all believe that Ray has ALL THE TRUTH? If so, then I think I'll bow out because I don't believe anyone has all the truth and I am way past looking to 'leaders' to do it all for me. That was left behind when I left the orthodox church.

And I am also VERY glad that ordinary UR believers, faults and all,  happened to preach and teach on that other orthodox forum so people like me could at least even hear about it.

[meee]

        Hi meefsgirl,      No, I don't beleive any man has all the Truth. One day we will know all, but not in the here and now. Ray has said he doesn't know it all, as well. I think some point Ray out because they are grateful for God causing him and equiping him to teach. It is all God though and Ray would say that also.
           hugs,meee

[Roy Martin]

meefsgirl, I understand your concern, but we need to remember that few are chosen.
If many knew the truth, and were teaching it on many websites with many believers, then it would be many chosen and not a few.
I don't know of anyone alive other than Ray that is teaching this truth.
I have wondered about this many times. Who will be the next teacher when Ray is gone? Will that be the end of a human teacher?
Ray makes it clear that he doesn't know it all, and that he is human just like all of us, learning and growing in Spirit. He is just a man that has had his eyes opened more than ours, and has been chosen to teach.
I have great respect for Ray, but place him not on a pedestal. That isnt where he wants to be.
 If all the preachers were teaching the truth, how could there be a few chosen?
If one leaves this truth behind then their eyes have not been opened.
I do believe that it is the Spirit that teaches us, and That should be our main source of understanding and learning, but God works through people and Ray and us are being worked and used by God. Of this I have no doubt.

Peace
Roy

[meefsgirl]

        Hi meefsgirl,      No, I don't beleive any man has all the Truth. One day we will know all, but not in the here and now. Ray has said he doesn't know it all, as well. I think some point Ray out because they are grateful for God causing him and equiping him to teach. It is all God though and Ray would say that also.
           hugs,meee

Thank you, meee... 

[meee]

        Hi meefsgirl,      No, I don't beleive any man has all the Truth. One day we will know all, but not in the here and now. Ray has said he doesn't know it all, as well. I think some point Ray out because they are grateful for God causing him and equiping him to teach. It is all God though and Ray would say that also.
           hugs,meee

Thank you, meee... 

           

And I am also VERY glad that ordinary UR believers, faults and all,  happened to preach and teach on that other orthodox forum so people like me could at least even hear about it.

             Meefsgirl, as far as other sites pointing to some truth, yes that is so. God uses this too and I know for me it has been kind of a round about journey. God using many teachings to bring me here. The other's say it much better than me, but you are very welcome.
            meee with hugs and love

[meefsgirl]

meefsgirl,

  I don't think anyone here at bt's puts Ray on any type of pedestal as you state .

Actually I made a point to say that it 'seems' that people here put Ray on a pedestal to avoid saying they do.

 

Time and time again all the Glory has gone to the Father and to His Son,your statement seems a little condescending to all who put their Trust and Faith into the Truths of the Spirit.You would be hard-pressed to find anyone here who would put Ray before anything that is of the Lord.I love Ray dearly as a brother and a teacher but that's what he is, a teacher,not some type of a hero .

I think it's unfair to say I'm being condescending. I was simply stating an observation. I'm sincerely glad you do put the Lord before anyone else.

 

Have you even read all the material on bible-truths.com,or is this site some type of a hobby that you nourish yourself with,for whatever reasons you deem necessary? As meee has already stated,Ray would be the first one to tell you that he does not know all of the Truths of the Lord,but many of them he does, and that is why we as Spiritual Truth seekers participate in these forums.We seek Gods Truth and Wisdom.  Not any mans...

I have read tons of Ray's articles. And I agree that Ray is 'one' of the best teachers on the web. And I believe He is taught of the Lord. Ray does not think he holds all the truth, I know that. In all sincerity though I need to say that it does come across 'strongly' that many of you do hold Ray up too high... he would probably hate that.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone, and if I have offended, I apologize.

In equal peace and understanding... meefsgirl