the tithing lie

[bible man]

For those that dont know I am a pastor of a local assembly of believers in VA.  I also host a radio and television program.  I wanted to share a post that was left by a local pastor.  My reason is to get a response from my brothers  and  sisters on the forum. I am being fought, threatned, blackballed etc. due to my stand of NO TITHING!   WELL HERE IT IS!!


Date: 07/02/09
Message: Tithe a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Gen. 14:20; Heb. 7:6); and Jacob vowed unto the Lord and said, "Of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee." The first Mosaic law on this subject is recorded in Lev. 27:30-32. Subsequent legislation regulated the destination of the tithes (Num. 18:21-24, 26-28; Deut. 12:5, 6, 11, 17; 14:22, 23). The paying of the tithes was an important part of the Jewish religious worship. In the days of Hezekiah one of the first results of the reformation of religion was the eagerness with which the people brought in their tithes (2 Chr. 31:5, 6). The neglect of this duty was sternly rebuked by the prophets (Amos 4:4; Mal. 3:8-10). It cannot be affirmed that the Old Testament law of tithes is binding on the Christian Church, nevertheless the principle of this law remains, and is incorporated in the gospel (1 Cor. 9:13, 14); and if, as is the case, the motive that ought to prompt to liberality in the cause of religion and of the service of God be greater now than in Old Testament times, then Christians outght to go beyond the ancient Hebrew in consecrating both themselves and their substance to God. Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property (1) one tithe for the Levites; (2) one for the use of the temple and the great feasts; and (3) one for the poor of the land.

[Craig]

I would simply tell them they had better follow all the Levitical laws, they can't pick and choose.  Then ask them to pass the bacon.

Craig

[bible man]

LOL  LOL !!!!! CRAIG  AMEN!!!

[kenny]

Yep

[Kat]

Hi Bible man,

I have compiled some emails that I think might help you with this tithing issue.  There are many more tithing emails at this link http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3108.0.html

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4572.0.html -----------------

CHRIST'S ONLY TWO EXAMPLES OF TITHERS

Paul was inspired by God's Holy Spirit to declare that "God loves a cheerful giver" (II Cor.9:7). Why was not Paul inspired by God's Holy Spirit to declare that, "God loves a cheerful tithe-payer?" In fact, why does not Paul mention the words tithe, tithes, or tithing in any of His thirteen epistles—not once? (Paul did not write the book of Hebrews, II Thes. 3:17). Why does not Peter, James, John, or Jude mention tithing in any of their epistles? Why didn't the early Christian Fathers mention tithing as a doctrine of the New Testament Church? Therefore, why are innumerable thousands of evangelists, theologians, teachers, preachers, and clergymen teaching the world that if they don't tithe ten percent of their salaries, that God will curse them with a curse?

The only two times in the New Testament that Jesus mentions tithing is in condemnation of the Pharisees. At the time of Jesus' ministry there was a temple and there was a Levitic Priesthood, hence tithing was still in effect for the Jews. Hear now the only words ever recorded of Jesus mentioning tithes:

  1. "But WOE [deep distress, misery, grief, misfortune, calamity, sorrow, dismay] unto you Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs [some had farms; some had gardens], and pass over JUDGMENT and the LOVE OF GOD: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone" (Luke 11:42).
     
     And just what kind of a blessing did Jesus pronounce on these Pharisees for their "tithe of the mint and herbs"? No blessing, just a startling "WOE"!
 
  2. "And the Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God... I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess" (Luke 18:12).

And just what kind of a blessing did Jesus pronounced on this Pharisee for his "tithe"?

No blessing, no justification, just a promise that people like him will be "abased" (Ver. 14).

What does being an utter hypocrite and passing over "Judgment and the Love of God" have to do with "tithing?" That's the whole point. These gross sins have virtually nothing to do with tithing!

Tithing to Jesus was so absolutely insignificant to the gross sins of failing to properly Judge the widows and orphans and fatherless and poor, and to not show any Love of God toward them. Tithing was the smallest most inconsequential thing Christ could think of to show the utter hypocrisy of this Pharisees. They were very meticulous about tithing (a law of virtually no spiritual consequence what so ever), and yet... and YET they would do the tithe thing and neglect judgment, love and mercy.

Now please don't all write me at once telling me that I have missed the whole point of these two sets of Scripture by not realizing that it was their very gross sins that will bring "woes' and "abasements" on them, and not that they are being condemned for what they did do correctly, namely "tithe." That is quite true. However, it appears that most have missed the very reason why Jesus gives two examples of two Phariees, who were gross sinners deserving the worst possible chastisements, and then says that they were both tithe-payers.

Christ's attention to the fact that they were both meticulous tithe-payers, proved the hypocrisy of these two Pharisees. They would pay strict attention to very miner details of a law, and yet totally abandon a very reason and purpose for the whole existence of the law—LOVE, MERCY, JUDGMENT.

The Law of Moses regarding tithing produce from the land was still in effect during Christ's ministry, and therefore, all of the nation of Israel who had land were to tithe from their land and give it to the Priests and Levites, strangers, fatherless, widows, poor, and even consume some of it themselves at God's annual festivals. However, this system with its laws and temple were all part of the original church of God in the wilderness. Jesus, however, did not tithe. Likewise, His apostles, did not tithe. Furthermore, neither Jesus, nor His Apostles, nor Paul, ever taught new Christian converts to the newly established Church of Christ, to tithe to this new church!

Here then is the bottom line: Neither, Jesus nor His apostles tithed themselves or taught tithing to others. And within a generation God pronounced to the entire world by the total destruction of both the nation of Judah, and their city of Jerusalem with its temple, that the church established in the wilderness, was now superseded by the Church of Christ. The nation of Israel was gone, the temple was gone, the priests were gone, the Levites were gone, and concerning the very Law of Moses containing the law of tithing, we read this:

   "In that he says, A NEW covenant, He has made the first OLD. Now that which DECAYS and waxes OLD is ready to VANISH AWAY" (Heb. 8:13).


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4183.0.html -------

No, I have never said that people should not tithe anymore than I have ever said people should not observe the Holy Days or the Sabbath day, or be physically baptized or circumcised. If that is the level of one's spiritual understanding, then they should do what they fell compelled to do.

However, "tithing" (the LAW of tithing, if you will) was for Israel under the tabernacle/temple service of the Levitic Priesthood on their herds and produce of the fields ONLY. NOTHING ELSE is "tithing" according to the Scriptures. Abraham did not "tithe" ANYTHING of his own produce or herds. He gave a tenth of the spoils (and THAT from the King of SODOM, if you can believe it!) ONE TIME ONLY.

Now then, how many churches do you know that desire the "spoils of conquered enemies" ONE TIME only?  There's your answer to: "But RAY!!!  Tithing predates Moses."  So what?  Not one person before Moses enacted tithing on Israel, ever tithed their own personal property to God or a representative of God.  And under Moses, tithing was not given to all Israel--the workers who worked for wages in the fields gathering the produce (a tenth to be given to the Levite and the needy) did not pay tithe on their WAGES!

The only two examples of anyone tithing in the New Testament are examples of gross SINNERS who were not blessed for their example of tithing at all.

Jesus never taught tithing to His followers, neither did they tithe.

The Apostles never collected "tithes" from the ministry, as it was ILLEGAL for any but Levi to collect tithes.

Paul never taught tithing, nor did he ever receive a "tithe" from his Gentile converts.  In fact he refused to take anything from Corinth, seeing that they were "yet carnal," and so if tithing was a "law of God" as is statement thousands of times a day around the world of Christendom, then Paul would have SINNED by not teaching the Gentiles to tithe. When Paul took collections for the poor, it was not "tithing."  Paul never said, "God loves a cheerful TITHE-PAYER."

The early Christian church did not teach or accept tithe. It was always voluntary "according as God has blessed you."  It was hundreds of years after Christ established His Church that the Catholic Church decided that this was a fabulous way to get rich on the ignorance of their followers, and thus instituted the law of tithing into the church. Am I going to fast for you?

Therefore, to teach New Covenant Believers that tithing is a law of God binding on them, and to fail to do so will cause God to "CURSE YOU WITH A CURSE," is a sin.  And anyone who teaches that tithing MONEY (something not taught under the Law of Moses) is a law of God, and to fail to do so is committing sin, which penalty is death, is himself the SINNER!  And unless such an one bitterly repents of such damnable heresy, he will be brought into swift Judgment "in that day."

We spend thousands of dollars a month advertising our bible-truths.com site. But we do not teaching tithing, nor do we ask for contributions. People who see the value of our site ask US if they can please contribute, and so God provides. We have nothing to sell and no one receives a salary from contributions. It's called "faith."  And there are other Churches who are now relying on God in faith to provide for the financial needs. Pastors write me and tell me this, that they have now taught their congregations the Scriptural truth on this abused and fraudulent teaching in the Church. One may not be able to buy "his & her Jets" by living by faith instead of tithing, but you will fare a whole lot better at Judgment.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6548.0.html -----------

Did God every command anyone to tithe MONEY?  No He didn't. Only farmers and herdsmen tithed. Nothing else was ever titheable in Israel.  Fishermen did not tithe; basket makers did not tithe; gold miners did not tithe; the hired hands who worked in the fields and were paid a wage IN MONEY, did not tithe.

       Abraham did NOT tithe anything of his own, not even his farm products or herds, NEVER!

       And Jacob told God plainly that the ONLY way that he would give a tenth BACK to God is if God first gave him a HUNDRED PERCENT of all his wealth. Jacob said in effect--Make me filthy rich and I will give you back a tenth. So much for the modern Church and their damnable tithing doctrine.

       No one ever was taught to tithe to Christ's church. All gave freely if they had it to give, and if they didn't, they gave nothing. There was NO obligatory TEN PERCENT law of tithing. Paul never taught tithing or took tithes from the Gentile Churches.  The New Testament Church of Jesus Christ never practiced "tithing" until the Catholic Church made it a law in the 5th century!


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6531.0.html -------------

When all else fails, read the context. Yes, Abraham gave a tithe "of all."  But the question is, "all" WHAT?  Back up a few verses for the answer:  "And he [Abraham] brought back all the G-O-O-D-S
...and he [Abraham] gave him tithes [Heb: 'a tenth'] of ALL [all the
G-O-O-D-S"! (Gen. 14:16 & 20). Not the "all" of something else.

Second witness:  "Now consider Now consider how great this man was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the SPOILS [King James Margin: 'PLUNDER']" (Heb. 7:4).

"Tithing is UNSCRIPTURAL Under the New Testament."  There is not one example of anyone ever "tithing" to the New Testament Church of God.  Paul clearly never taught the Gentiles to "tithe."  Besides, money was never a titheable commodity.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6619.0.html --------------

I do trust in the Lord and I do not lean to my own understanding, but it is not necessary that I quote that verse in every one of my papers. As for "honoring God with your wealth and firstfruits," that commandment has absolutely NOTHING to do with the law of tithing. Tithing is giving a tenth of farm products to the Levites, priests, poor, and strangers. Tithing has nothing to do with voluntary giving, or firstfruits. They are two different things.  There was also a very small temple tax, but that tax has absolutely nothing to do with tithing. They also had a place called the treasury at the temple where people could drop coins if they so desired, but this had absolutely nothing to do with the tithing law on farm products. The hired laborers who harvested the tithes of the land did not pay tithes on their wages. Fishermen did not pay tithes on their fish, etc.  By "tithing" they were not "sowing seed" as you foolishly suggest. By tithing they were obeying the LAW of Moses, and breaking that law was a SIN.
They had no choice in the matter. They HAD to tithe.  "DO YOU GET IT?"

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=123.msg453#msg453 ------

"Wherefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, Because you DESPISE this word, and trust in OPPRESSION [Heb:  'injury, fraud, distress, unjust gain--a thing gotten deceitfully']..." (Isa. 30:12).

And how is one giant and blasphemous way in which the Christian clergy trusts not in God for their sustenance, but rather in "injury, fraud, distress, unjust gain, gotten deceitfully?"  Need some help on this one, Kevin?  Nothing comes to mind for you?  Try this:

"WOE unto you, scribes and pharisees, [Christian clergymen] for you DEVOUR WIDOWS' HOUSES...." (Matt. 23:14).  

And just how have the Christian clergy devoured widows' houses while OMITTING the weightier matters of the law?  Try the "Christian TITHING LAW" on for size. I have a drawer full of emails and letters from widows, sick and enfirmed, and elderly, and from the family members, telling me of the horror stories regarding their church's tithing laws. Some can't afford food after "tithing."  Some can't afford medicine after "tithing." Some can't afford to pay their heart bill after "tithing."  One woman felt so guilty from all the unscriptural and evil haranguing by her pastor over the consequences of not tithing and being CURSED WITH A CURSE from Almighty God plus the prospects of eternal torture in hell fire hanging over her, if she did not TITHE MORE.  All she had left were her Food Stamps. So she tithed her Food Stamps (put them in an envelop with her name and address on it), and the pastor SPENT THEM!

And you, Kevin, want to be my mentor?  Until you BITTERLY repent, Kevin, of this damnable heresy, here is what Jesus thinks of you and what your future holds:

"But WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES FOR YOU SHUT UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AGAINST MEN

THEY BIND HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be born, and lay them on mens shoulders; but will not move them with ONE OF THEIR FINGERS

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES you DEVOUR WIDOW'S HOUSES you shall receive the greater damnation.

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES

WOE unto you, ye BLIND GUIDES

You FOOLS AND BLIND

You FOOLS AND BLIND

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You have omitted JUDGMENT, MERCY, and FAITH

You BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.

You BLIND PHARISEES

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You are FULL OF DEAD MEN'S BONES, and ALL UNCLEANESS and HYPOCRISY and INIQUITY

WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! you are the children of them which KILLED the prophets. FILL YOU UP then the measure of your fathers.

You SERPENTS, you GENERATION OF SNAKES you KILL AND CRUCIFY you SCOURGE in your synagogues Behold your house is left unto you DESOLATE"!!


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,134.0.html -----

From my tithing paper:

NO TITHING IN THE CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES

We have Scriptural proof that no such law or custom as Christian tithing was taught or practiced in the Church by the early apostles. Their epistles are totally devoid of any such tithing custom or law. Gentile converts were never taught to tithe to anyone. Although the temple and priesthood in Jerusalem remained until 70 AD, not even Jewish converts were taught to give their tithes to the Apostles rather than to the temple priests.

In the Acts 15 Jerusalem Conference we find outlined what the apostles all agreed was necessary for the newly converted Gentiles to practice, and by inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God, tithing is conspicuously missing. Some believing Pharisees wanted the apostles to teach the Gentiles to keep the Law of Moses (which certainly contained the law of tithing, Acts 15:5), but the apostles headed by Peter, James, and Paul would not hear of it (Acts 15:28-29)! Yet, what is one of the very first legislated duties taught to Gentile converts by the Church today? It is that they must tithe their annual salaries to the Church. Where did this unscriptural law of Christian tithing come from?

God be with you,

Ray

[Ninny]

Bible Man, dude! You are in so much trouble!! You are in some hot water!! At least it's not hell! Well all I can say is I am praying for you!! Hang on tight the ride may get a lot bumpier before it's over! You got guts from God, son!! Covering you, covering you, covering you with prayer...
Kathy

[Terry]

Bible Man just was wondering what radio and T.V.channel you're on as i also live in Va.,also was wondering if you're getting all this flak for teaching about tithing what happens when you tell them there is no Hell, that should be interesting they probably run you out of there on a rail, as for me after months of reading and studing here at BT i finally started to see these truths and couldn't wait to share with my family these wonderful truths of God, i started with tithing that wasn't to bad,but moved on to there's is no such thing as hell and God will eventually save all mankind even Satan, i still remember my moms face when i told her that i thought she was having a stroke, my brother who is a Pentecost Preacher told me i was a wolf in sheep clothing and i was tring to seperate the flock, i kept giving them scriptures that a child could understand but it was useless, i have now shucked the dust from my feet and moved on, on the up side my wife sees these things i teach her(as God allows me to see) and i thank God for that, what i'm saying is i'm not a shy man i can walk right up to a stranger on the street and start a conversation about anything, and since i have learned these truths i have shared them with a lot of people and as far as i know my wife is the only one who sees it and i'm thankful for that as i've heard others on the forum say they don't have family members to share these truths with it really makes a difference.What i guess i'm tring to say is no matter how hard you try to get others to see, most won't.anyway I'd like to know how it go's.

God Bless
Terry

[9440geoff]

What you said is so true Terry. I've tried to share Ray's bible truths with my wife but she cannot see it. All I know is that I must be faithful to God, in that He has blessed me with His truth, therefore I must share that truth with everyone I can, no matter what their reaction. I pray for you Bibleman, that you continue steadfastly to teach the truths that He has blessed you with, and that He will give you the strength and courage to see it through.

Geoff

[Marky Mark]

Bibleman, I'm afraid that as long as you walk and teach in the aisles of the babylonian satanic church,your christian brethren will keep knocking you and the Truths of the Spirit down to their literal level of understanding.Best advice I could say or give to you would be:

Revelation 18;4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Come out of her, my people, lest you become partakers of her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

Revelation 21;7 He that overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.



Peace...Mark

[meee]

Bibleman, I'm afraid that as long as you walk and teach in the aisles of the babylonian satanic church,your christian brethren will keep knocking you and the Truths of the Spirit down to their literal level of understanding.Best advice I could say or give to you would be:

Revelation 18;4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Come out of her, my people, lest you become partakers of her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

Revelation 21;7 He that overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Peace...Mark

Exactly my thoughts ,Mark.       I don't understand staying in there, not judging, just can't understand it.
Terry, I am so happy you are being blessed in that God is giving your wife eyes to see and ears to hear.
meee

[Roy Coates]

Bible Man, All I can see say is put on your whole armor of God, dig in and stand for His truths. I will keep you in my prayers brother, Peace and Grace to you.

PS; I found you an avatar...I couldn't figure out how to save it and re size it for you. Go the below link, it is an awesome pic of BibleMan http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product_slideshow?sku=310517&actual_sku=310517

[Roy Martin]

Roy, that is an awesome picture.


peace
Roy M.

[bible man]

THANKS!!! my forum family I need the support of prayer.  I receive death threats all the time,I am reminded to count it all joy anyhow.  Terry im on wrej 1540 am tues wed thurs 1:30  our tv times vary in Richmond. Th is year has been ruff as i exposed the ''HELL'' LIE. Im also looking forward to participating in a dialogue on the word network with Carlton Pearson and other false prophets.  once again thanks       


                                       God Bless!!!

[G. Driggs]

Sounds like you HAVE come out of her, spiritually speaking, and I am pleasantly surprised they have not thrown you out yet. You are right where God wants you to be, in the lions den. Praying for ya bro. God has put you in a position to reach a lot of people by radio and tv, all the Glory is His!

Peace, Safety and Courage to you
G.Driggs

[firefly77]

bible man,
For some reason I thought that Carlton Pearson came out of Babylon as well. I haven't checked his myspace site lately, but last time I did, he was persecuted by Churchianity for not believing the hell lie anymore. Did he change his mind again?
I will keep you in my prayers.

Angie

[meee]

You're correct Angie, I'll paste something from Carlton's site:
What if Hell didn't really exist?
Have you ever asked how a loving God could condemn most of His children to eternal torment? Bishop Carlton Pearson did, and his answer will change everything you ever thought you knew about God, eternity and God's plan for humankind.

In The Gospel of Inclusion, Bishop Pearson courageously explores the exclusionary doctrines of mainstream religion and concludes that according to the evidence of the Bible and irrefutable logic, they cannot be true. Instead, he offers us the Gospel of Inclusion—the simple, stunning truth that everyone has already been saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
meee

[meee]

You're correct Angie, I'll paste something from Carlton's site:
What if Hell didn't really exist?
Have you ever asked how a loving God could condemn most of His children to eternal torment? Bishop Carlton Pearson did, and his answer will change everything you ever thought you knew about God, eternity and God's plan for humankind.

In The Gospel of Inclusion, Bishop Pearson courageously explores the exclusionary doctrines of mainstream religion and concludes that according to the evidence of the Bible and irrefutable logic, they cannot be true. Instead, he offers us the Gospel of Inclusion—the simple, stunning truth that everyone has already been saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
meee

Here's the link: *links not allowed*

[mharrell08]

bible man,
For some reason I thought that Carlton Pearson came out of Babylon as well. I haven't checked his myspace site lately, but last time I did, he was persecuted by Churchianity for not believing the hell lie anymore. Did he change his mind again?
I will keep you in my prayers.

Angie

Hello Angie,

It takes more than overcoming the belief in a pagan hell to come out of Babylon:

1 John 2:15-16  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

John 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 John 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev 21:7  He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son

Carlton Pearson still has a number of idols of the heart that he has to overcome if he is to 'come out of her' completely.


Marques

[Marky Mark]

bible man,
For some reason I thought that Carlton Pearson came out of Babylon as well. I haven't checked his myspace site lately, but last time I did, he was persecuted by Churchianity for not believing the hell lie anymore. Did he change his mind again?
I will keep you in my prayers.

Angie

Hello Angie,

It takes more than overcoming the belief in a pagan hell to come out of Babylon:

1 John 2:15-16  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

John 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 John 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev 21:7  He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son

Carlton Pearson still has a number of idols of the heart that he has to overcome if he is to 'come out of her' completely.

Marques

Marques. A big Amen to that my friend.



Peace...Mark

[firefly77]

You are so right! Ultimately God helps us grow and gain more understanding and insight or revelation into the deeper things of Him. Not believing in hell is a good place to start. The tithing lie is what brought me here to this site initially. Back then, I still had a lot of Babylon idols in my heart. God is working on them one by one; I can't take credit for my growth. God has given me a thirst for searching out the truth for which I am very, very grateful.

Have a great 4th of July everybody!

Angie