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Parables, more Parables, everywhere Parables
Dennis Vogel:
I asked Ray to comment on this subject. He replied:
Denny:
There is more to understanding a Scripture than to just looking up the Greek or Hebrew words or checking various translations. Just because a certain word can mean this of that doesn't mean that it should be translated this way or that way. Here are some proofs that "through" the Elect is decided not the proper translation of Matt. 24:22--
[1] Before we ask whether it is the Lord Who shortens those days or whether the Chosen Elect shortens those days, we need to ask just how would the Elect have the ability to "shorten days" in the first place? This seems clearly out of the realm of possibility for mere mortals to accomplish.
[2] I know of no translation that translates "for" the elect's sake as "through the elect." "For" does seem to be the proper translation, or at least a word meaning "for," such as "on account of" (Emphatic Diaglott); or "yet, because of" (Concordant Literal New Testament); "for the sake of" (New Revised Standard Version), etc. The meaning is clear that it is "for or because of" of the Elect that these days will be shortened, not "by means of" the Elect.
[3] If it is the actual coming of Christ that shortens this destructive period of time, and the Elect are the instrumentality through which this shortening takes places, then they would of necessity, have to know when Jesus would have to come, but we are clearly told that "...of the day and hour knows no man" (Matt. 24:36).
[4] When all else fails check the parallel prophecies in the synoptic gospels to see if the wording makes it any clearer. Obviously most all translators have done this, and therefore did not make a mistake when they translated Matt. 24:22 as "FOR" the elect's sake. Notice the parallel in Mark's account of this very same prophecy:
Mar 13:20 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days [Who shortened those days? The Elect? NO, 'the LORD'] , no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days [Who? 'He (the LORD) has shortened']." There is the absolute irrefutable answer as to Who shortens these days--the Elect or the LORD.
God be with you,
Ray
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on August 11, 2009, 11:28:39 AM ---
Rather than "for the elect's sake" it appears it really should be saying "through the elect" as in "through the elect those days were shortened."
We know the elect will hold key positions in bringing salvation (through Christ) to the rest of humanity.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.
Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Looking at the Greek word dia could these verses have been clearer in the translation, actually doesn't the present translation tend to obscure the real (hidden) truth? Although there is merit in the translation the way it written knowing the original and primary definition of the Greek word adds depth to it.
Peace,
Joe
--- End quote ---
I appreciate the critique as it will challenge me to continue to study the patterns within the scriptures as well as the depths of verses rather than one singular understanding or meaning.
The point I was trying to make is not that there was no truth in the way these 2 verses were translated but rather when we look at the original Greek there is more treasure to be mined and they are not necessarily in conflict!
Aren't the elect going to be the workers of the great harvest? Isn't Christ going to work through the elect bringing humanity to Him and His Father?
From Lake of Fire Part 6;
If you have never experienced COMING OUT of Babylon the Great, then maybe you are being called to respond to God’s plea: "Come OUT of her MY PEOPLE." It is a great and wonderful thing to be called by God at this time to be prepared as the very SONS OF THE LIVING GOD to bring salvation to the rest of the world and the entirety of the universe!
http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html
Peace,
Joe
Kat:
Hi Jacob,
I wondering if this means that the length of the daytime period will be shortened. It seems to me that this is saying that God will not let the world continue on it's present course towards complete debauchery. No, He will step in and Christ will return, thus He will shorten the number of days that the present course this world is on. It's for the Elect sake because they are living in this world and cry out for Him to do something.
Rev 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened...
"Days should be shortened" reminds me of another phrase that He uses in Revelation "I come quickly."
Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Just a few thoughts on this subject.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ninny:
That is interesting, though, isn't it? I have often thought of what the meaning of those words might be..literal days, being literally shortened or the time for Christ's returned being shortened because of the elect and the pain they are in..and the circumstances...you have to think of how that might be, people have suffered a great deal through the years and endured hardship, pain, and death for professing Jesus...wow! What will change because of the "elect"?
Kathy ???
Dave in Tenn:
Let me ask it this way: Has there ever been a day go by or a circumstance we find ourselves in that He doesn't/hasn't/will not have performed His will for our sake? Has He not framed Evil and shown mercy? He's 'lengthened' and 'shortened' all the days/events/circumstances/periods of our lives to bring us to where we've been, are, and are going. His will be done.
Does it need to be said that He's done it all without literally and physically shortening the literal and physical 24-hour-day? At least not routinely, we can all agree. :D
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