> General Discussions
Help re: those in LOF
rocky:
I read through the first 7 installments of LOF series last night again, and what kept popping into my head that I'm having a hard time understanding is how are the unbelievers (resurrection of the unjust/wicked) resurrected in a state of carnality, in order to have the LOF burn out/destroy/purge the carnal mind?
Seems to me that I Corinthians 15 states that we are raised incorruptible, immortal, spiritual, with power, with glory and to life.
Life is Christ, carnality is death. Doesnt make sense to me.
Is I Corinthians talking about the resurrection of overcomers only??
For definition purposes, I have included these:
Spiritual is defined as:
G4152
πνευματικός
pneumatikos
phyoo-mat-ik-os'
From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
dishonor:
G819
ἀτιμία
atimia
at-ee-mee'-ah
From G820; infamy, that is, (subjectively) comparative indignity, (objectively) disgrace: - dishonour, reproach, shame, vile.
glory:
G1391
δόξα
doxa
dox'-ah
From the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literally or figuratively, objectively or subjectively): - dignity, glory (-ious), honour, praise, worship.
weakness:
G769
ἀσθένεια
astheneia
as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
power:
G1411
δύναμις
dunamis
doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
quickening:
G2227
ζωοποιέω
zōopoieō
dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.
spirit:
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
again,
spiritual:
G4152
πνευματικός
pneumatikos
phyoo-mat-ik-os'
From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
flesh:
G4561
σάρξ
sarx
sarx
Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).
Corruption
G5356
φθορά
phthora
fthor-ah'
From G5351; decay, that is, ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively): - corruption, destroy, perish.
Incorruption
G861
ἀφθαρσία
aphtharsia
af-thar-see'-ah
From G862; incorruptibility; generally unending existence; (figuratively) genuineness: - immortality, incorruption, sincerity.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Seems to me those coming out of lake of fire are incorrupt, glorious, powerful, full of life, immortal, and spiritual, not those going into it.
Any help in understanding this better would be appreciated.
Daniel:
I feel bad your down here by yourself Rocky :lol: I loved the definitions you came on here with.
Especially this one
Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).
Sounds like our "old man" which is first as is the natural first. Under "the law" of sin and death. Living in and after the flesh.
We are all canally/ earthly (terrestrial?) minded until we are given the "mind of Christ" (cellestrial?) heavenly minded?
Sounds like one being spiritually circumcised, "stripped" of the skin (or our old man) after a spiritual truth.
This one as well spiritually speaking
weakness:
G769
ἀσθένεια
astheneia
as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
1Cr 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
The implication in the definition can also be seen in "the cause" Paul mentions in the same breath.
Just reading your post blessed me simply by way of the definitions. You can capture these very things in scripture. I'm not sure how this is seen here, so I'll let someone else answer for Ray. I just wanted to acknowledge your post. :D
Great stuff
Peace
Daniel
hillsbororiver:
Rocky, yes the resurrection spoken of in 1Cor 15 pertains to those in the 1st resurrection, as you will read in Lake of Fire Part 12;
GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE
I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.
Ponder this:
Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).
We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).
We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).
God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).
We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!
God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:
"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).
Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!
THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!
The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).
And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.
"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"
And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!
rocky:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---Rocky, yes the resurrection spoken of in 1Cor 15 pertains to those in the 1st resurrection, as you will read in Lake of Fire Part 12;
GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE
I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.
Ponder this:
Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).
We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).
We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).
God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).
We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!
God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:
"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).
Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!
THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!
The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).
And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.
"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"
And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!
--- End quote ---
thanks Daniel and Joe. If I Corinthians 15 is only referring to the 1st resurrection (overcomers), then it all makes sense. For some reason, I thought that this chapter was talking about the 1st and general resurrection.
hillsbororiver:
Hi Rocky,
You are very welcome, when studying His Word we are at a great advantage when we come to the understanding that all the work and guidance (Divine) in preserving the bible (OT & NT) through the last few thousand years has primarily been for the benefit of His chosen, the elect.
Consider, these things for "you" (us, according to His will) to understand;
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they do they understand.
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
We can see that the Word reaches to 3 levels of existence,
1) To the called, who at best can see the letter or keep down the milk (no put down intended).
2) Those of "the sea" the vast majority of humanity who never heard of or really cared one way or the other about our Lord. Even though not too many want to admit it, most "civilized" (by that I mean nation's with rule of law vs. despotic /tyranical rule) nation's laws are deeply structured around the 10 Commandments. His Word influences the "beasts" of the worldly nations without their proper acknowledgement or approval!
3) The words in this book are written primarily for His chosen, the firstfruits;
Act 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
There are hundreds of verses in scripture that attest to this, what an incredible journey He has us on!
Joe
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