> General Discussions
Help re: those in LOF
chrissiela:
Joe,
Are you saying that 1 Cor 15 is written ONLY for the elect?
Do we not ALL have to pass from death unto life, before death can be swallowed up in victory?
You also say:
--- Quote ---3) The words in this book are written primarily for His chosen, the firstfruits;
--- End quote ---
What do you mean by that? I don't know that I would say that the scriptures were written only, or even primarily, "for the elect"? Though, I understand that it is 'they' who will HEAR the words of the book, for it is 'they' Whom God will open it to.
I'm not sure I am understanding what you are saying there?
Christ came so that we might have life and have it more abundantly, but His words (whether they are heard or not, which is up to His choosing) are for ALL aren't they? Christ came to be the savior of the world.
We are all going to judged out of what is written in the book. So then wouldn't what is written in the book apply to us ALL (though it has not yet been given for all to 'understand... for it has not yet been 'opened' to all, as only Christ can open the book)?
Chrissie
hillsbororiver:
Hi Chrissie, what was our Lord saying to his apostles in regard to the parables, is it written that ALL would understand and be converted? Are the apostles the "firsrfruits" so to speak, of the chosen, the elect? Do you believe that the (unbelieving) world and the churches have His will and the wisdom of His Word in their hearts? Do they have understanding?
Chrissie, do you believe all of humanity is in the 1st resurrection? If not then who is being spoken to? This is written for those who "overcome," the elect;
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:10 Therefore, I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
What is the glory and high calling?
Coincindently earlier today I posted this in this thread;
From Lake of Fire Part 12;
GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE
I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.
Ponder this:
Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).
We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).
We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).
God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).
We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!
God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:
"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).
Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!
THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!
The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).
And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.
"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"
And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you believe all will have the same reward?
Then who is converted in the Lake of Fire?
The entire bible is a parable.
Who is to understand?
They? Or the chosen?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
I hope this clears up my position and thoughts on this,
Joe
P.S. Chrissie, didn't you read the part where I stated the whole world, unbelievers and the church (called) had benefitted from His Word? But only the elect, chosen understood? :D
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---Hi Chrissie, what was our Lord saying to his apostles in regard to the parables, is it written that ALL would understand and be converted? Are the apostles the "firsrfruits" so to speak, of the chosen, the elect? Do you believe that the (unbelieving) world and the churches have His will and the wisdom of His Word in their hearts? Do they have understanding?
Chrissie, do you believe all of humanity is in the 1st resurrection? If not then who is being spoken to? This is written for those who "overcome," the elect;
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:10 Therefore, I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
What is the glory and high calling?
Coincindently earlier today I posted this in this thread;
From Lake of Fire Part 12;
GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE
I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.
Ponder this:
Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).
We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).
We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).
God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).
We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!
God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:
"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).
Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!
THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!
The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).
And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.
"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"
And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you believe all will have the same reward?
Then who is converted in the Lake of Fire?
The entire bible is a parable.
Who is to understand?
They? Or the chosen?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
I hope this clears up my position and thoughts on this,
Joe
P.S. Chrissie, didn't you read the part where I stated the whole world, unbelievers and the church (called) had benefitted from His Word? But only the elect, chosen understood? :D
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry. Please forgive me for asking an obviously stupid question. :D
Chrissie
PS. Yes, I DID read the posts (all of them, coincidentally) and my question was not about who can 'hear' the words.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Have a blessed evening,
Chrissie
Programmer:
Let's see what the word of God says...
(Rev 19:20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
(Rev 20:10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever
(Rev 20:14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Rev 20:15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I would have to take this as a literal place...I can't 'spiritualize' this into a body of Christians being a combined body of people who will be the judges in the end. This is THE final judgement.
Lyndon.
gmik:
Joe, could you explain Rev. 20:10- in regard to the false prophet being in there tormented forever if the LOF is safe and secure with us??
Also, where in the timeline or LOF do the stripes come in??
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