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Author Topic: In the Garden  (Read 2985 times)

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E. Woods

  • Guest
In the Garden
« on: July 29, 2009, 07:27:17 PM »

   I have a question.

If God didn't want Adam & Eve to eat of the tree of good & evil,
Why did He put if in the Garden?   

    EJW
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: In the Garden
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 08:40:14 PM »

EJW, Who said God did not want Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit?


Peace...Mark
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: In the Garden
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2009, 09:00:43 PM »

Exactly!
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darren

  • Guest
Re: In the Garden
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 02:40:05 AM »

It had to be God's intention and part of His plan from the beginning. Adam and eve could not choose any way but the way they chose. Does that make since?? It's been mos since I wrote a reply. I might be rusty in explaining myself.

                        Darren
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E. Woods

  • Guest
Re: In the Garden
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 11:21:36 AM »

EJW, Who said God did not want Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit?


Peace...Mark

   Thanks Mark,
 But that did not answer my question.

   As for your question!   " And the Lord God commanded the man " Gen 2:16,.
" But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil YOU SHALL NOT EAT " v.17

   I guess  Adam told Eve What God said, since she was not around yet when God
commanded the man.   But she knew, "God has said you shall NOT EAT IT," Gen 3:3.

   My question remains.   (  Why did God put it in the Garden ? )

     EJW
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Roy Martin

  • Guest
Re: In the Garden
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 11:39:22 AM »

God sent Moses to tell Pharaoh to let His people go even though God knew Pharaoh would not; because God hardened his heart. God tells us not to do many things, but He knows we will do them anyway because that's the way He wants it.We have to know evil to know good. A child might not show interest in something until you point it out and tell them not to touch it, but sure as can be the child will now be curious and touch it.
 Its in our weakness that God is strong. He is smarter than we are. Don't try to out think Him.

Peace
Roy
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: In the Garden
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 11:39:52 AM »

EJW, Who said God did not want Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit?


Peace...Mark

   Thanks Mark,
 But that did not answer my question.

   As for your question!   " And the Lord God commanded the man " Gen 2:16,.
" But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil YOU SHALL NOT EAT " v.17

   I guess  Adam told Eve What God said, since she was not around yet when God
commanded the man.   But she knew, "God has said you shall NOT EAT IT," Gen 3:3.

   My question remains.   (  Why did God put it in the Garden ? )

     EJW


EJW,Email to Ray.Hope this helps.

http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#will

Sir,

Gods first "will" if you can remember was when he created Adam and Eve.  He didn't "will" for them to sin. But what did they do? What did he do about it? He banished them from his presence in the Garden of Eden!

Think about it! He did not kick them out then bring them back, there were no more chances, once God lets you out, your not getting back in. THINK about it.

[Ray replies]

Well of course we are getting into a mature subject here, and I certainly would not expect Sunday School children to understand it, it does take some spiritual maturity.

God ABSOLUTELY has raised up people for the EXPRESS PURPOSE OF SINNING so that God could show His power in the earth by simply CONTRAST. See Rom. Chapter nine. (I notice that you are not one to be burdened by quoting Scriptures to back up your statement). Pharaoh was raised up for the EXPRESS purpose of GOING AGAINST God's will and SINNING so that God could then DESTROY HIM. Read it. Paul plainly says so. Stop using human arguments and reasoning. If you can't show me by the Scriptures, then you can't show me.

God planted the true of the knowledge of good and evil, not Satan. And God planted it right in the midst of the Garden where Adam and Eve would surely see it. God watched as Satan maneuvered his way to Eve so as to deceive her. God watched the whole thing! Stop believing that God is surprised or shocked by the actions of His creatures--He is NOT!   Besides, the tree contained the knowledge of  GOOD! Or did you never notice that? It was GOOD that they ate of the tree. It was GOOD that they disobeyed God. God   KNEW THAT THEY WOULD SIN AND DISOBEY FROM LONG BEFORE HE EVER CREATED THEM. 

How stupid do you think God is?  It is blasphemy the way people talk about God and give Him no more reasoning powers or abilities than sinful men. It is a SHAME. God knew exactly was HE was doing and He knew exactly everything that Adam and Eve WOULD DO. He is  GOD. He knows ALL. Must I quote you all these simple Scriptures that most Sunday School children already know?

The Lamb of God was "slain from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD," the Scriptures tell us. Not from the "sin of Eve."  God made provision for the salvation of Adam and Eve BEFORE HE EVER CREATED THEM--that is Scripture! That is not mans' theories!  I don't have time or space to explain the whole plan of salvation to you in one e-mail. Read ALL of my letters to Kennedy and Hagee, then write me if you have a question.

One last thought for you. God DID create men spiritually weak so that they cannot resist sin. "ALL have sinned..."It obviously IS God's will that for a time we go AGAINST His will. But. . .BUT, NO ONE EVER goes against God's "INTENTION." There is a giant difference. Paul's detractors ask in Roman's nine, "For who has gone against God's INTENTION?" And the answer is, absolutely NO ONE. It could not even BE God's will that all be saved, unless first ALL ARE LOST! 

If only theologians could come to understand that God is not running a damage control center from His throne of the universe. God is NOT picking up the pieces. He is not trying to get things back to being as good as they once were. He is not trying to figure out how to outsmart Satan. He is not falling behind, numerically, as far as how many will be saved and how many will be lost. God is far smarter and wiser and the stupid men who come up with these insane and blasphemous theories and doctrines.

God has a PLAN. (Wow, now there's a revelation for theologians). And God is working out that plan to perfection on a perfect schedule, and He will loose NOTHING! Paul tells us in Rom. 11:36 that ALL is out of God and THROUGH God and FOR God. God is creating man in His OWN IMAGE. It is a PROCESS. That process is on perfect schedule. It WILL be successful. Christ IS the saviour of the world and therefore, He WILL SAVE THE WORLD. How can you be a minister of the gospel and doubt God's ability to save all of His children? That's insane.

Anyway, I gotta go, I have many more e-mails to answer.

May God guide you into His perfect will.

Sincerely,

Ray





Peace...Mark
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: In the Garden
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 01:20:33 PM »

Hi EJW,

I think we have to know that God placed this 'tree' in the midst in the garden so it would be unavoidable.  It was His intention that they partake of it, that is why He placed it as He did.  But it's what the tree represented that we need to understand.  What it represents all of mankind have partaken of from this tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Here are some emails and excerpts from articles to help explain this.

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html -----------------------------

I realize that many of these things are too high for many Christians to comprehend and accept, but God does operate in such ways, and God does right by doing so.  God never makes a mistake and God never sins. It was not a sin on God's part to make man so spiritually WEAK than he can't possibly live righteously and please God in his present carnal condition.

God did not directly entice Adam or Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit, Satan did. But notice, Who planted the tree?  Where was it planted, in a far corner somewhere? Who made the tree LOOK good and desirable to make one wise?   Who knew that Satan would take the first opportunity to tempt them? Who had ALREADY PREPARED HIS SON AS A LAMB to be slaughtered for these sins even before they committed them? Well, yes, of course, it was GOD! God did NOT tempt Eve. Satan tempted Eve. Eve's own carnal nature tempted here.


http://bible-truths.com/email8.htm --------------------------

God created EVIL, not Satan or any other supposed power greater than God (Isa. 45:7).

God uses evil for good.

GOD planted the tree of the knowledge of good AND evil in the garden.

If man wanted to know "good" he had to partake of the tree of EVIL as well. BOTH WERE IN THE SAME TREE, IN THE SAME FRUIT!

Both good and evil experiences are necessary in the building of Godly Character, and so God provides both.

God knew what He was doing, He knows what He is doing, He will continue doing exactly what He planned FROM THE BEGINNING!


http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html ------------------------

Between the birth of humanity and the death of humanity we find all of the following taking place at their appointed time:

"plant and pluck... kill and heal... breakdown and build up... weep and laugh... mourn and dance... cast away and gather... embrace and not embrace... get and lose... keep and cast away... rend and sew... keep silence and speak... love and hate... war and peace..." (Ecc. 3:2-9).

What we have here in Ecc. 3 is "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" and every shade of gray between good and evil. God takes us through such profound experiences as "war and peace," all the way down to tearing a piece of cloth and sewing it together again-"a time to rend [apart] and a time to sew [together]." Not only do we all tear our pants or tear our shirt at some time or another, but, there is actually a God-appointed time for these things to happen.

I realize that this is a hard concept for most to believe, but this is indeed what God is emphasizing in this third chapter of Ecclesiastes: "To every thing there is a season [Heb: "an appointed season or time'], and a time to every purpose under the heaven." Can we believe it? Will we believe these grand declarations of God? Not if we are "free-willers" we won't.

The will of the entire human race combined, cannot bend one blade of grass unless it was foreknown, foreordained, and appointed by God to happen. Read Ecclesiastes 3 and tell me otherwise.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=4472.0 ---------

I mean people think there was a literal tree, like an apple tree and when you ate it, your brain understood good and evil from the apple.  Itís a symbol, itís all symbolism.  Iím not saying there is nothing literal, but even in the literal, there is a spiritual teaching.  


http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html ----------------------------------

I heard a world-famous televangelist say in his sermon that it was never Godís intention that Adam and Eve disobey His command and sin by eating of the forbidden tree. Most Christians would agree. They think God did not want Adam to sin; and Adam did not need to sin. If Adam had not sinned, we would all be living in a giant Garden of Eden to this very day. We would be in perfect health, there would be no sorrow, we would have pleasure twenty-four hours a day, we would never die, we would be happy and God too would be happy.

If Adam had shown just a little restraint the world wouldnít be in the giant mess it is in today. Oh really? Well, why then didnít Adam exercise restraint. What went wrong? Did the first humans malfunction? Was there a flaw in their original design.
v
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Few indeed have ever stopped long enough to consider that just maybe God intended for the world to be in the hellish mess that we find it. Not for all eternity, but for the present, for a period of time, for a great purpose. It just seems so wrong to Christian thought to believe that God would have purposed such an evil and unhappy world. But look at the alternative. Are we to believe that God tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to make a good creation, but was unaware of its potential to run amok? And ever since, God must therefore either lack the love for humanity to straighten it out, or He lacks the power and ability. But either way it disowns Godís sovereignty and presents us with a God Who either CANNOT or WILL NOT STOP THE INSANITY! They would have us believe that Godís solution to rid the world of sin and evil is to torture most of humanity in fire for all eternity.
v
v
If a thousand Christians were given the assignment to write an essay describing the world as it was after God completed it, but before man sinned, I am positive that we would get one thousand essays describing the unbelievable beauty, harmony, and perfection of all creation including man and beast. However, would such essays be based on the Scriptures? Letís look at a little understood Scripture.

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [thatís God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

Wow! Did you know that Scripture is in the Bible? Have you ever meditated at length on its meaning? This one Scripture does much damage to Christian doctrine. From a strictly carnal-minded approach, this Scripture is devastating. Letís see what these words entail from Strongís GREEK DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT:

VANITY: empty, profitless, vain, transientness [temporary], depravity [wickedness].

BONDAGE: slavery, subjection, subserviency.

CORRUPTION: shrivel, wither, spoil, ruin, deprave, defile, destroy, decay, perish

GROAN: moan, calamity, be in straits, murmur, grief, grudge, anguish.

TRAVAIL: pangs, to pain together, travail as in birth.

PAIN: anguish, toil for daily subsistence, starving.

The force of these verses in Rom. 8:20-22 is inescapable. It was God HIMSELF Who subjected the whole creation to vanity, and He didnít ask anyoneís permission before He did it. And it is only God Himself Who will deliver the whole creation from the bondage of corruption, pain, and suffering. Make no mistake about it: God is the Creator of evil, and He takes full responsibility for the deliverance from the consequences of all the evils that have caused the creation to "groan and travail in PAIN until NOW" as Paul describes. God takes responsibility for the temporary failures of creation so that He can take all the credit and glory for its successes.

And most of the glory that God will receive is from the glory that He gives to all mankind.

It was not possible for Satan NOT TO SIN -- he was created for the express purpose of being Godís Adversary, and so, of course, he was a sinner "FROM THE BEGINNING"!

It was not possible for Adam and Eve NOT TO SIN -- they were created for the express purpose of being molded into the "image of God," and so of course, they had to eat of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil or they would have NEVER reached this first spiritual step in becoming LIKE GOD (in His IMAGE), a step of paramount DIVINE REQUISITE:

"And the LORD God said, Behold [consider, to perceive, to know, to understand], the man is BECOME AS ONE OF US [Hebrew for ĎGodí is elohiym which is the plural of elowahh, hence Ďusí], TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL..." (Gen. 3:22).

Knowing "good and evil" is one of the most essential requisites in being formed in the image of God. To truly "know" both good and evil they HAD to partake of its source, which was the "TREE of the knowledge of good and evil," which then DEMANDED that they SIN in order to obtain this "knowledge." NO OTHER TREE IN THE GARDEN POSSESSED THIS NEEDED KNOWLEDGE!

And so it was GOD, and none other than GOD, Who intended from the beginning that Satan and man SIN! That does not make God a sinner, for a sin is a "mistake," a "missing of the mark," a "falling short of the glory of God," and God has NEVER MADE A MISTAKE OR FALLEN SHORT OF TOTAL PERFECTION! God knew what He was doing and how things would turn out BEFORE He created ANYTHING! "Declaring the end from the beginning..." (Isa. 46:10). Satan and man are "accountable" for their sins, because they sinned willingly from their heart, but God takes "responsibility" for their sins, and therefore had already provided them a Saviour BEFORE the foundation of the world:

"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifested in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:19-20).

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb [Christ] slain from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" (Rev. 13:8).

Is anyone so naive and blind as to believe that God had prepared a Lamb, a Sacrifice, His SON, to be slain for the sins of the world at a time when theologians would have us believe God didnít even KNOW there was shortly coming such a thing as SIN? God knew; God is smart! It was God Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil It was God Who placed it right in the middle of the garden to catch Eveís eye. It was God Who made the tree particularly attractive and desirable. It was God who placed in the humans the desires and passions that would CAUSE them to partake of the forbidden fruit. It was God who placed Satan the serpent in the garden to tempt Eve and fill her head with the glories of enlightenment. It was God Who had ALREADY made preparation for their salvation through the slain Lamb of God.

Only ignorant and foolish theologians would ever charge God of being ignorant of the conduct and behavior of His own creation. It was not the temptation or deception entering INTO Eve that caused her to sin and bring separation from her Creator and God. It was what was already in her that caused her to sin. Proof:

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Mat. 15:19).

Notice it: "And when the woman saw [in her heart] that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eye [in her heart], and a tree to be desired [in her heart] to make one wise [an idol of the heart], she took [íFor out of the heart proceed ... thefts...í] of the fruit thereof, and did eat" (Gen. 3:6).

Did you notice that last phrase "...and did eat"? It was not the "eating" of the fruit that made her a sinner -- she had ALREADY sinned by looking, lusting, and fantasizing about her potential wisdom. It was AFTER she sinned that she "did eat."

The good news is that all of our suffering is for a grand purpose and will ultimately bring huge rewards. Just two verses before, Paul tells us how God subjected the whole creation to these many evils and he gives us this comforting thought:

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [ígroaning and travailing in pain together until nowí Ver 22] are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY which shall be revealed in US" (Ver. 18).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

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