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Author Topic: An e-mail to Ray  (Read 4111 times)

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orion77

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An e-mail to Ray
« on: June 10, 2006, 03:49:30 PM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/viewtopic.php?t=1039&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


Did you all read this one.  True orthodox christian brotherhood.   :lol:


(Rom 1:28)  And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,

(Rom 1:29)  having been filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, iniquity, covetousness, malice, being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers,

(Rom 1:30)  slanderers, God-haters, insolent, proud, braggarts, devisers of evil things, disobedient to parents,

(Rom 1:31)  without discernment, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful,

(Rom 1:32)  who knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve those practicing them.

(Eze 24:14)  I, Jehovah, have spoken; it shall come, and I will do it. I will not let go, and I will not spare, I will not pity. By your ways and by your doings they shall judge you, declares the Lord Jehovah.

(Mic 3:9)  Please hear this, heads of the house of Jacob, and magistrates of the house of Israel, you who abhor justice and pervert all equity,

(Mic 3:10)  those building up Zion with blood and Jerusalem with iniquity:

(Mic 3:11)  Her leaders judge for a bribe, and her priests teach for pay, and her prophets divine for silver; yet they will lean on Jehovah, saying, is not Jehovah among us? No evil shall come on us!

(Mic 3:12)  Therefore, on account of you, Zion shall be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house into high places of the forest.

(Luk 6:39)  And He spoke a parable to them: A blind one is not able to guide a blind one. Will they not both fall into the ditch?

(Luk 6:40)  A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who has been perfected will be like his teacher.

(Luk 6:41)  But why do you look on the chip in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam in your own eye?

(Luk 6:42)  Or how can you say to your brother, Brother, allow me to take out the chip in your eye, not yourself seeing the log in your eye? Hypocrite! First take the beam out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the chip in your brother's eye.

(Jam 5:9)  Do not murmur against one another, brothers, that you not be condemned. Behold, the Judge stands before the door.


Apparently, they are strong believers in a literal hell, so I guess they missed this one:

(Mat 5:22)  But I say to you, Everyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to the Judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the sanhedrin; but whoever says, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of Hell.


Still amazes me, how differently the carnal mind and the spiritual mind works.  To actually believe that God our Heavenly Father will be infinetly times more evil and torturous than Hitler ever thought of, is a sick thought.  Truly it is God who does the blinding and God who does the healing.   :wink:

God bless,

Gary
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Daniel

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2006, 03:59:08 PM »

The e-mail to me seems like a hoax in itself. I don't perceive it to be geniune myself. I think its as one "pretending to be" crazy truthfully.

Its the first thing that came into my mind concerning it.

Peace

Daniel
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orion77

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2006, 06:00:18 PM »

Yeah, it could be a hoax, but I've run into people like that before.  They would sooner kill you, than put down their belief in hell.  It is sunken down deep through tradition.

Look at these big name preachers swindling this new movie about the tortures of hell.  None of which is biblical, yet people by the millions believe and if you try and tell them differently, oh boy, watch out!  It is no different than a muslim blowing himself up to kill the infidels, they have been taught by tradition they will sit at the right hand of Allah.

To me, it is just another way of seeing who is who, by the fruit they produce.  Dont get me wrong, I am not attempting to belittle these people.  The day will come for them as it has us.  Just because we see, does not mean that they will not.  Although my eyesight is not 20/20 yet, it is improving, hopefully.   8)

God bless,

Gary
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Sorin

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2006, 10:04:33 PM »

Quote from: Daniel
The e-mail to me seems like a hoax in itself. I don't perceive it to be geniune myself. I think its as one "pretending to be" crazy truthfully.

Its the first thing that came into my mind concerning it.

Peace

Daniel




I thought it was a legit email by an actual "born again" Christian. Maybe that's just me, but that's what came to my mind. Typical Christian attitude.
Either believe in hell, or end up in hell.

That's Christianity's new slogan: In hell we trust.
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shibboleth

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2006, 10:35:42 PM »

After talking to people in the church about some of the Bible truths and getting similar answers, I am not surproised at this kind of response.

These people are truly spiritually dead and can't see the wonderful truths the Lord has shown us. We really need to pity them more than condemn them. They may become a convert and read this post and blush with shame at the silly things they said. :oops:
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Falconn003

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2006, 12:29:46 AM »

It is the typical response one would get when confronted by individuals who love thier world and do not remeber thier 1st love.

Fanatics, nazi's, kkk,  black panthers,  le m,  ........ect  all comes to mind as the typical birth place or origin of this line of behavior and expression of loveless fools.


Rodger
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Daniel

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2006, 12:52:57 AM »

Quote from: Sorin
Quote from: Daniel
The e-mail to me seems like a hoax in itself. I don't perceive it to be geniune myself. I think its as one "pretending to be" crazy truthfully.

Its the first thing that came into my mind concerning it.

Peace

Daniel




I thought it was a legit email by an actual "born again" Christian. Maybe that's just me, but that's what came to my mind. Typical Christian attitude.
Either believe in hell, or end up in hell.

That's Christianity's new slogan: In hell we trust.


Not by my understanding of the definition. You would think one who was born from above would speak like that Sorin? I'm talking how scripture would define one born from above, not as doctrines of men would.

Christian simply means "follower of Christ". I would not depict their actions or words to be an example deserving to be "called" a "follower of the truth" if they don't walk in Him.

I agree Sorin, that there seem many who "call themselves christians" (a follower of our Lord) who do not appear to follow Him at all. People "say" alot of things, Jesus showed that. One can "call themselves" anything they want. Its what they do that manifests where they truly are.

Even though those being disobedient (not walking in the truth) have coin the word "christian" to themselves does not make it true to them. To me the word "christian" is biblical and respectable as far as it legitimately applies to the followers of Christ.

When one might say for example, "All Christians suck" (I have heard it and I have said it in my time). But what I and they (we) are really saying (without thinking) is that "All followers of Jesus Christ" are "that". Perhaps another name might suffice? like "those in ignorance"? We can all be ignorant concerning something.

By the grace of God go I.

I admit it was a weird e-mail (and I don't know why I received a feeling on its authenticity, I just did)

Peace

Daniel
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Daniel

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2006, 12:57:13 AM »

Quote from: Isabell
I don't think this email is a hoax.  A lot of "Christians" have a contemptuous and condescending attitude like this.


Some do Isabell I agree, that might never change for some. Seems they are stuck in a rut and cannot grow and mature in Him.

Sad really.

Peace Daniel
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Sorin

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2006, 02:39:59 AM »

Quote from: Daniel
Quote from: Sorin
Quote from: Daniel
The e-mail to me seems like a hoax in itself. I don't perceive it to be geniune myself. I think its as one "pretending to be" crazy truthfully.

Its the first thing that came into my mind concerning it.

Peace

Daniel




I thought it was a legit email by an actual "born again" Christian. Maybe that's just me, but that's what came to my mind. Typical Christian attitude.
Either believe in hell, or end up in hell.

That's Christianity's new slogan: In hell we trust.


Quote from: Daniel
Not by my understanding of the definition. You would think one who was born from above would speak like that Sorin?


No, of course not. I meant a so called "born again" Christian that's been splashed.. oops.... I meant baptized by water.  ;)



Quote from: Daniel
I'm talking how scripture would define one born from above, not as doctrines of men would.


One born from above would be filled with love. This person obviously was not.

Quote from: Daniel
Christian simply means "follower of Christ". I would not depict their actions or words to be an example deserving to be "called" a "follower of the truth" if they don't walk in Him.


Exactly, that's why people on this forum don't generally call themselves Christian, because it's become perverted.

Quote from: Daniel
I agree Sorin, that there seem many who "call themselves christians" (a follower of our Lord) who do not appear to follow Him at all. People "say" alot of things, Jesus showed that. One can "call themselves" anything they want. Its what they do that manifests where they truly are.


...and no marvel that even Satan himself appears as an angel of Light. right? Hehe.

Quote from: Daniel
Even though those being disobedient (not walking in the truth) have coin the word "christian" to themselves does not make it true to them. To me the word "christian" is biblical and respectable as far as it legitimately applies to the followers of Christ.


I see your point, but do you also see mine? I say it's better to just say you're a "follower of Christ" than to say you're a "Christian" even though it technically means the same thing. Know what I mean?

Quote from: Daniel
When one might say for example, "All Christians suck" (I have heard it and I have said it in my time). But what I and they (we) are really saying (without thinking) is that "All followers of Jesus Christ" are "that". Perhaps another name might suffice? like "those in ignorance"? We can all be ignorant concerning something.



That's true what you're saying, and I agree but when I say the word "Christian" or "Born again" in the way I said above, I mean "those in ignorance". See what I mean?

Quote from: Daniel
By the grace of God go I.

I admit it was a weird e-mail (and I don't know why I received a feeling on its authenticity, I just did)

Peace

Daniel


I found it more hateful than "weird", but I did not have doubt about it's "authenticity".

Peace,
Sorin
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Daniel

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2006, 03:19:13 AM »

Agreed Sorin, hateful is ignorance and disobedient to the command of Christ. I simply will not let them soil the name "Christian" in my eyes after the truth it was always meant to represent. Christian will always mean what it is meant to mean as defined in scripture.

I would not "throw out" or "count corrupt" my Lords name simply because others have taken and brought blaspheme to the good name by which we are call by. I have done the same thing it would be hypocrital to say I have not. I can't do the same with "christian" anymore either. I'm not ashamed to be called a Christian (follower of Christ) because of what others has done to His name. I have been guilty myself of the very same thing. To hide my face from the name simply because of what others (even myself) have done to it don't feel right in me. I had equal part in the same things. I'm not holier then thou in that respect that I don't remember where I have come from or what I have done.

Granted, this e-mail was over the top, I'm tempted to say more but really, to what purpose? Revel in it?

I don't want to mud sling them either and become like them in behaving that way. Then I would be doing the same to (and in) His name what they are accused of doing. They do a pretty good job abusing them own selves, manifesting their position. It don't take an Einstien to see something is amiss here thats for sure.

Peace

Daniel
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lilitalienboi16

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2006, 04:10:00 AM »

Quote from: Sorin
Quote from: Daniel
The e-mail to me seems like a hoax in itself. I don't perceive it to be geniune myself. I think its as one "pretending to be" crazy truthfully.

Its the first thing that came into my mind concerning it.

Peace

Daniel




I thought it was a legit email by an actual "born again" Christian. Maybe that's just me, but that's what came to my mind. Typical Christian attitude.
Either believe in hell, or end up in hell.

That's Christianity's new slogan: In hell we trust.


rofl "In hell we trust." HAHAHA im sorry that one made me crack up

To me this email seems legit also, i mean there are some true believers in Convert or burn in hell method.
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orion77

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2006, 04:36:56 AM »

We are all in agreement on this thread.  I think seeing the e-mails Ray receives is important, it allows us to see the many different views people have concerning the Word of God.

The responses from people who have a strong belief in a literal hell are easy to see that they have not the love of the truth in them.  Their words are full of hatred, contempt and very judgmental.  They see themselves doing Gods service by condemning, accusing and wishing an eternal torment on another one of Gods creation.  

It is not so much as attempting to do to them what they do to us.  That is not in my mind to do such things.  From reading the bible and a look in the history of mankind, it can easily be seen that Gods name has been falsely accused, slandered, misapplied, thought evil of, and used by carnally minded men to gain money, fame, power over another.  

The whole point is, why has God allowed this to happen and why does God permit them to do the same to us?  Look around and we can see.  When we talk the truth of God, what will they do to us?  Is it any different today than it was back then?  When God has opened our eyes, we clearly see through experience what the love, mercy, forgiveness and patience of God is all about.  Being on the short end of the stick is not fun, neither is being shunned by family and friends and on top of this by going to church and asking sincere questions only to have them turn on us like wild wolves, is no fun.  Now, we see the long suffering and patience of our God, not by sitting on the sidelines, but by walking through the fire.  When we keep the faith God has given us, endure, persevere through suffering and persecutiion, then we are as Christ was in the world.  Just think of what is coming!  Amen.  God our Father is wise and good.

To be honest, if it were not for the Spirit of Christ in me, I could not forgive them.  This is what separates the ones with His Spirit in them and the ones who don't.  His Spirit has conquered and crushed this selfish beast.  We are crucified with Him, He has brought us to where He is now.  He is not dead and neither are we.  We have been awakened out of deep sleep, out of the night and into the light.  

These e-mails Ray receives, for me, simply helps to discern each of where they are in their walk.  I can not hate the blind just because they are blind, for we all were once there ourselves.

God bless,

Gary
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Harryfeat

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2006, 10:35:21 AM »

Hello everybody,

I have to admit that this is one of the more hate based diatribes I have heard in a while.  However, it is not unlike what is spewed like vomit from the faces of all too energetic bible thumpers I have had the dubious distinction of being subjected to.


Through all the vitriole, I couldn't help but find it ironic that they were equating the serpent's words in genesis with universalism.  In not so many words saying the serpent's " you will surely not die"  means the same as all will be saved unto eternal life.  To be honest, that was a  twist that I hadn't heard before.  


I has been very hard for me to concentrate on trying to love someone while they are berating you and or your friends.  I usually have to take time to reflect and forgive later.

feat
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honeysucklerose777

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2006, 03:48:08 AM »

Excuse me for butting in,but does this sound like love to you? My heart was heavy to see such postings. Did any of you give scripture to refute this "Christians"message to you? Jesus said,"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. "I would like to hear more from the mouth of God,somehow it lifts my spirit. I'm 60 years old and I don't know it all. I like the saying,BIBLE FIRST, DOCTRINE SECOND. There is a true love and that is to judge others through the eyes of Jesus love. Humble yourselves therefore under the hand of God and He will lift you up.  Higher ground is what we want boys and girls not self righteousness. If this doctrine is true then we are all going to the same place,at the same time,right? So beloved,let us love one anotherfor love is of God and everyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God,he that loveth not,knoweth not God for God is love,so beloved,let us love one another 1 John 4:7-8
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honeysucklerose777

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 04:07:35 AM »

Excuse me for butting in,but does this sound like love to you? My heart was heavy to see such postings. Did any of you give scripture to refute this "Christians"message to you? Jesus said,"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. "I would like to hear more from the mouth of God,somehow it lifts my spirit. I'm 60 years old and I don't know it all. I like the saying,BIBLE FIRST, DOCTRINE SECOND. There is a true love and that is to judge others through the eyes of Jesus love. Humble yourselves therefore under the hand of God and He will lift you up.  Higher ground is what we want boys and girls not self righteousness. If this doctrine is true then we are all going to the same place,at the same time,right? So beloved,let us love one anotherfor love is of God and everyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God,he that loveth not,knoweth not God for God is love,so beloved,let us love one another 1 John 4:7-8
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lilitalienboi16

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2006, 05:18:10 AM »

Quote from: honeysucklerose777
Excuse me for butting in,but does this sound like love to you? My heart was heavy to see such postings. Did any of you give scripture to refute this "Christians"message to you? Jesus said,"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. "I would like to hear more from the mouth of God,somehow it lifts my spirit. I'm 60 years old and I don't know it all. I like the saying,BIBLE FIRST, DOCTRINE SECOND. There is a true love and that is to judge others through the eyes of Jesus love. Humble yourselves therefore under the hand of God and He will lift you up.  Higher ground is what we want boys and girls not self righteousness. If this doctrine is true then we are all going to the same place,at the same time,right? So beloved,let us love one anotherfor love is of God and everyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God,he that loveth not,knoweth not God for God is love,so beloved,let us love one another 1 John 4:7-8


I'm not sure if i was doing anythin self righteous God forbid i wasn't, however i was laughing at the slogen "In hell we trust" it is kinda funny, maybe inapropriate to laugh at though?

Anyway God bless, and Yes love love love, We judge the World by NOT judging the world ;)
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YellowStone

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2006, 09:53:09 AM »

Quote from: Daniel
Quote from: Isabell
I don't think this email is a hoax.  A lot of "Christians" have a contemptuous and condescending attitude like this.


Some do Isabell I agree, that might never change for some. Seems they are stuck in a rut and cannot grow and mature in Him.

Sad really.

Peace Daniel


Having been there and done that....(I think most of us here know what I mean) It is very difficult believing in the unbelievable. I mean if God who can truly understand the concept of a God that Loves you so much that if you are good you will go to Heaven and if not, then "He" will punish you for ever and ever.

Their faith is baseless, in the sense that they do know or can afford to understand the real blessing that:
    1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;[/list:u]The simple truth is that Jesus died so that we would not have too (spiritually, not physically) or his death was pointless and in vain.

    Many forget that a doctrine in theology is not needed (and never was) to know and love God.
      Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw
[it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[/list:u]How can we know this?
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
[even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [/list:u]Without excuse, without excuse, being clearly seen and understood by that are made. The Hell doctrine just does not fit and never has. Gosh, dare any such as these to even find the word in any original scripture. The word does not exist!!! :)

If it is God's will, their eyes and hearts will be opened and they will understand.

The love of God knows no bounds,

YellowStone
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dogcombat

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2006, 10:47:28 AM »

Quote
That's Christianity's new slogan: In hell we trust.
Quote



Actually, the slogan should be "IT'S HELL WE THRUST"


Ches
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shibboleth

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An e-mail to Ray
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2006, 10:56:15 AM »

Honeysucklerose,
Could you please explain to me what you mean by Bible first and doctrine second? Please use scripture to prove your case. Also you say so much knowledge and so little truth. Could you explain that to me too. Please use scripture.

I realize I have been where this person who wrote the e-mail to ray was. But, we need to be able to rightly divide the truth from error, otherwise there won't be any truth and anyone can and will say anything they want on this forum and never be challenged. I need to be challenged if I am wrong, and I won't be offended if I am. I have certainly been wrong about so many things I used to believe, but that doesn't mean I don't have many beliefs I will not give up, unless you can scriptually prove I am wrong and the spirit of God reveals it to me.
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