> General Discussions
Satan made to eat dust: dust = humans
larissa4676:
The first passage was 1 Corinthians 5:5, where Paul said about the fornicator, "Deliver this man to Satan". A few verses further on, Paul explained what he meant: "Drive out the wicked person from among you" (verse 13). This also explains 1 Timothy 1:20. Here Paul said he had delivered two sinful Christians to Satan that they might learn not to blaspheme. They, too, had evidently been excommunicated, because in 2 Timothy 2:16-17 Paul advised Timothy to avoid them.
"Jesus, the Son of God ... in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet
without sinning" (Hebrews 4:14,15). And we know that he was tempted in the wilderness. Would the Son of God have been willing to go climbing up temples and mountains in company with the devil? Would he have been likely to throw himself down because a wicked satan said so? And where is there a mountain from which one can see "all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them"? In any case, would a devil have been so stupid as to point to those kingdoms and say, "All these will I give you"? Jesus knew very well that the kingdoms of this world belong to God, and that no fallen angel could have the power to give them away. Three times in one chapter the Old Testament says that God rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He chooses (Daniel 4:17,25,32).
Jesus had just been given the power of the Holy Spirit, power without limit. He knew that he could now do anything. He could imagine himself manufacturing food from the stones, jumping off the top of the temple and landing unharmed, conquering the whole world if he wanted. Just as Adam and Even were given power and dominion in the garden. Of course we know where they went with it. They took the bate and ate the fruit. Since the children, as he calls them, are people of flesh and blood, Jesus himself became like them and shared their human nature. He did so that through his death he might destroy the Devil, who has the power over death Hebrews 2:14 And since The wages of sin (in who?) is death (Romans 6:23). Sin when it is full-grown (in whom does it grow) brings forth death (James 1:15). Without any doubt to me the devil of Hebrews 2:14, the devil that had the power of death, was human sinfulness.
The night before he died he admitted to his Father that his human nature but he was determined to obey his Father, rather than his own human desires. He prayed: Not my will, but thine, be done (Luke 22:42).
Here is another point. Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11). If we look over allot of the cases of "demon possession" in the Bible, we see that these people were dumb, blind, deaf. All of which God says HE does. Not some demon devilly thing. Now for some more evidence to support this point of view. Consider the following account of a miracle: "A man came up to him [Jesus] and kneeling before him said, 'Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and he suffers terribly; for often he falls into the fire, and often into the water. And I brought him to your disciples, and they could not heal him '." (Matthew 17:14-16). Matthew's plain words give us a very clear picture. The boy was ill and needed healing. But then Matthew goes on to say: "And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured instantly" (verse 18). This really is a surprise ending. What started as a simple story of an illness turns out to be a story of demon possession in the finish.
The heart is deceitful ABOVE ALL THINKGS, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9) Does the ALL THINGS mean really mean ALL? Would that include the devil and his evil deceitful nature?
Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man" (Matthew 15:19,20). Or is it Satan?
What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? Is it not YOUR PASSIONS that are at war in your members? You desire and do not have; so you kill" (James 4:1,2) Not "the devil made me do it" That would be reverting back to the same lie that Eve told in the beginning. The serpent made me do it. The word clearly states it is our OWN lusts that lead us to this tempting which again Eve and Adam failed.
Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted with evil and He Himself tempts no one; but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin" (James 1:13-15). Jesus experienced this as well when he was tempted in the wilderness, which scriptures say that he clearly was.
And who does Paul blame in Romans? A satan? a devil? —he puts it down to "the lusts of their [men's] hearts" (verse 24). Similarly, in Chapter 2, he tells his readers that their sin comes from "your hard and impenitent heart" (verse 5). Then in Chapter 3 he blames "our wickedness" (verse 5). He makes it clear that we have no excuse for this (verse 19). We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Chapter 5 is the plainest chapter of all. This explains how sin and death came into the world. It was not through a wicked spirit, but:
"Sin came into the world through one man [Adam] and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned" (verse 12).
Ok. I'll leave it at that. Marques, I will go back and study Rays papers again on the subject.
Larissa
larissa4676:
Gen 3:15 And I will putH7896 enmityH342 betweenH996 thee and the woman,H802 and betweenH996 thy seedH2233 and her seed;H2233 IT(he/she/it/self/same/etc)H1931 shall bruiseH7779 thy head,H7218 and thouH859 shalt bruiseH7779 his heel.H6119
Shouldn't that last part of this be BRUISE HEEL? Not bruise HIS heel?
Also, it would make sense to address the human (as I believe we all have a part of God in us) separate from the sinful nature as I believe Paul does here. What causes wars, and what causes fightings among YOU? Is it not YOUR PASSIONS that are at war in your members? You desire and do not have; so YOU kill" (James 4:1,2) Your PASSIONS is address as well as YOU. In this passage they don't seem to be one and the same. And since Jesus was "tested at all points" wouldn't that mean he would of had to feel these sort of passions as well?
I cannot find another scripture where God curses the serpent like he did in Genesis.
Ok. Thats about all I've got. The cursing Eve and her mind point Ray brings up does make sense, but I see so many scriptures that seem to point out that we are to separate self from selfs passions. Ok. I'm ready for corrections and GENTLE nudges in the right direction.
Thanks everyone.
Larissa
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: larissa4676 on August 12, 2009, 10:27:06 AM ---Ok. Thats about all I've got. The cursing Eve and her mind point Ray brings up does make sense, but I see so many scriptures that seem to point out that we are to separate self from selfs passions. Ok. I'm ready for corrections and GENTLE nudges in the right direction.
Thanks everyone.
Larissa
--- End quote ---
Hello Larissa,
Reading your 3 last posts in this thread, the one thing you continue to imply/say is that Satan is not really a spiritual being but actually our carnality. Is that the sum of what you are saying? I mean, I know you use the word 'passions', but that is still based on carnality.
Now, seeing that Jesus was/is/will be sinless [2 Cor 5:21, 1 Pet 2:22], who was Jesus conferring with in the wilderness after His baptism? His own carnality or 'passions'? Was it Jesus' carnality or 'passions' that He himself rebuked?
To be carnal minded is death [Rom 8:6] but Jesus says that He is LIFE [John 14:6]. The premise of Satan not being a spiritual being but actually one's carnality is the same as saying Jesus was/is/will be sin, which is absolutely, positively false.
The scriptures as well as Ray's teaching on them are clear that Satan, who dines on mankind's carnality, is not mankind's carnality himself...Satan dines on himself?
This thread cannot continue in false teaching/speculation for our members sake...if one does not agree with the scriptures and Ray's teaching on the manner, this is not the place to promote it. Hopefully, maturity will have it's part without this thread having to be locked.
Thanks,
Marques
larissa4676:
I agree Marques. I don't want anyone led astray by the way God has shown me scriptures. Good thing that we'll all be cleansed of our carnal thinking. To that end, thank you for your wisdom and kindness.
Larissa
tinknocker:
Some verses that state Satin was created by God;
Isaiah 54:16
Look, I have created the craftsman who blows on the charcoal fire and produces a weapon suitable for its task; and I have created the destroyer to work havoc.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
Some verses on times God used evil for His purposes;
Joshua 23:15
And it shall come to pass, that as all the good things are come upon you of which Jehovah your God spake unto you, so will Jehovah bring upon you all the evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which Jehovah your God hath given you.
1 Samuel 16:14-16
Now the spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 15 And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 16 Let our lord command your servants here in your presence to look for someone who knows how to play the harp. Whenever the evil spirit from God troubles you, that person can play the harp, and you will feel better."
1 Samuel 16:23
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took the harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil (ra’) spirit departed from him.
2 Kings 6:33
And while he was yet talking with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of Jehovah; why should I wait for Jehovah any longer?
Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.
There is most certinely a evil spirit that God created and controls. Call him whatever you like but God calls him the destroyer.
Tom
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