Satan made to eat dust: dust = humans

[Judess]

Hi everyone!

It's my first post in this forum so please be gentle!   

I was reading a topic and saw this verse:

Gen 3:14-15  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I remember reading somewhere on Ray's site that dust = humankind and therefore Satan is like a lion waiting to devour us. However, I wonder why God would curse Satan to devour us.

That sounds more like punishment for us than Satan.

I know Satan's purpose is to devour us but it seems weird that God would command that as a curse to Satan. I would have thought Satan loved devouring us as it is already.

Therefore, could the 'dust' in this context mean something else other than humankind? We know it's not literal. Could it just be a metaphor to show how low Satan was cursed to go? So low that he has to be on his belly and eat dust (off the floor)?

Or is it symbolic?

Any insights would be appreciated!

Thank you.

[daywalker]

Hello there,

First off, welcome to the BT Forum, or as I like to call it "The L.A.B." [Life After Babylon]. Fill free to stick around and stay for awhile, don't be shy...

Onto your topic:

Genesis 3:19 For dust you [Adam, humans] are and to dust you will return.

I Corinthians 15:47 The first man (Adam) was of the dust of the earth

Isaiah 40:15 Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket; they are regarded as dust on the scales; he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust.

Genesis 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, 'Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

Luke 22:31 Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat...

I Peter 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.


The Scriptures make it very clear that the "dust" that Satan eats is "humanity". However, the phrase "on your belly shall though go" can definitely represent his position with the rest of creation--He is cursed above ALL creation--or rather, ALL creatures are "above" him--that would make him the absolute lowest form of creation.

That along with the prophesy of Christ and His Followers who would "bruise thy [Satan's] head" is a very significant curse. The fulfillment of this prophecy began when Christ began His Ministry, and continues to be fulfilled today through His Elect, His True Church:

Luke 10:19 Lo! I have given you authority to be treading upon serpents and scorpions and over the entire power of the enemy, and nothing shall be injuring you under any circumstances."

Of course, He's not talking about literal 'serpents' and 'scorpions', he's talking about Satan and his army, as we see in the next verse...

20 However, in this be not rejoicing, that the spirits are subject to you, yet be rejoicing that your names are engraven in the heavens."

These "spirits" are those of "spiritual darkness in the heavenlies"--Ephesians 6:12.


Anyways, hope this helps. And again, welcome to The L.A.B.!! 

- Daywalker 

[Roy Martin]

To the carnal mind it does sound like Satan did something that God didn't want him to do.
Genesis 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, 'Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
How do we give answer to that?

Roy

[Patrick]

To the carnal mind it does sound like Satan did something that God didn't want him to do.
Genesis 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, 'Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
How do we give answer to that?

Roy

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

But always remember, Satan never operates beyond his God-given parameters as we will see in the case of Job.

God gave Satan charge over Job, his body, and all his possessions, to try him severely before God:

"And the Lord said unto SATAN, Behold, he [Job] is in your hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6).

It was GOD'S idea to severely try Job, not Satan's. But Satan took strict orders from God as to just how he could try Job. Satan got permission from God at each and every step of this severe trying of Job. Do we think God does it differently today? Do we think Satan now has "free reign"- "free will?" Do we think that God "changes?" Nonsense: "For I am the LORD, I change not..." (Mal. 3:6).

David prayed for God to use Satan in judging his enemies:

"Set you a wicked man over him: and let SATAN stand at his right hand" (Psalm 109:6).

Are not these activities of Satan necessary? Does God use Satan for no good purpose? Then why can't men see that God also CREATED Satan for these very purposes?

Satan is constantly finding fault with God's Chosen ones:

"And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and SATAN standing at his right hand to resist [accuse] him" (Zech. 3:1).

Remember, Satan can do NOTHING without God's approval. When God completed His creating, He said

"And God saw EVERY THING that He had made [including Satan, the Adversary], and, behold, it was VERY GOOD..." (Gen. 1:31).

Satan was not only necessary, but he was, in fact, PERFECT for the job that God created him to fulfill.

SATAN ATTEMPTS THE IMPOSSIBLE

Satan tried to disqualify Jesus at the beginning of His ministry:

"Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil" (Matt. 4:1).

Notice that it was the spirit of God that led Jesus to be tempted of the devil. Can we not see that Satan serves a needful purpose in God's plan? It was absolutely needful that Satan tempt Jesus. If it weren't needful, God wouldn't have done it! And so Satan tried to bribe Christ into worshiping him:

"Again, the DEVIL takes Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and says to Him, All these things will I give You, if You will fall down and worship me" "Matt. 4:8-9).

Let's notice a few things overlooked by most Sunday school teachers (and most of the world's greatest theologians as well). Ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes: ALL THE NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD BELONG TO SATAN THE DEVIL!!! Heaven and Earth are God's possessions, however, God has delegated the nations to Satan. Satan could not offer all these kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he did not possess them to offer them in the first place. They are Satan's ignorant kingdoms:

"In whom the god [SATAN] of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).

Oh, that the Church would believe the Scriptures. Why are there billions who "believe not" in the world? Is it because they CHOOSE to believe not? That's what well-intentioned Christians tell me all the time. "Ray! these people CHOOSE to go to hell." How, pray tell, can they "choose" to go to hell, when they "believe NOT" in the first place. They don't "make a choice," the choice is made for them, because they "believe not." And JUST WHY do they "believe not?"

Will you insist on the Church's answer or will you humbly accept God's answer? "In whom the God of this world has BLINDED the minds of them that believe NOT..." That's why they can't "see" to make the right choice—THEY ARE BLIND!

Now then, what would happen if God were to REMOVE that Satanic blindness? Would they STILL choose to reject Jesus Christ and His gospel? We don't need to speculate, let's read it:

"In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, LEST the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM" (II Cor. 4:4).

When the deception is taken away, people will understand. When the blindness is taking away, people will see the truth.

Next, notice what Jesus Himself says would happen if this Satanic blindness were removed:

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes 'closed?' Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED... them..." That's why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).

This is not rocket science. When Satan blinds the minds of people, they "believe NOT." And they cannot repent, be converted, or saved until the blindness is lifted and they are given a knowledge of the Truth. But is it God's will that such a thing will ever happen?

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savour; Who WILL have all men to be saved [and just how might that come about?], and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:4).

[hillsbororiver]

Hi everyone!

It's my first post in this forum so please be gentle!   

I was reading a topic and saw this verse:

Gen 3:14-15  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I remember reading somewhere on Ray's site that dust = humankind and therefore Satan is like a lion waiting to devour us. However, I wonder why God would curse Satan to devour us.

That sounds more like punishment for us than Satan.

I know Satan's purpose is to devour us but it seems weird that God would command that as a curse to Satan. I would have thought Satan loved devouring us as it is already.

Therefore, could the 'dust' in this context mean something else other than humankind? We know it's not literal. Could it just be a metaphor to show how low Satan was cursed to go? So low that he has to be on his belly and eat dust (off the floor)?

Or is it symbolic?

Any insights would be appreciated!

Thank you.

Hi Judess,

I will try to be gentle! 

A curse does not necessarily have to be immediately suffered. Remember Adam (and Eve) were cursed after disobeying God but they did not die right after this disobedience.

If we look at let's say sexual promiscuity or a drug addiction as a curse the person who is "cursed" with these issues may very well spend years enjoying themselves and actually laughing at any dire warnings at what will be in store down the road and they even could deceive themselves into believing they could stop any time they really wanted to without ever having to suffer for it.

Then there are those with the "damn the torpedoes" attitude who are of the mind that "I don't care what happens tomorrow, I will live for any pleasure I might have today." (Isa 22:13, 1Cor 15:32)

This same principle may be Satan and his angels fate, this "curse" could very well be giving him the same sort of temporary pleasure a drug user/addict or fornicator enjoys. The gratification is fleeting and must be repeated often to stay "high" or "satisfied."

There is evidence that Satan and his demons know there is a day coming when these "sins" that are temporarily satisfying them will come to an end.

Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

See what I mean?

Peace,

Joe

[Roy Martin]

Joe, I see what you mean.

Roy

[bluzman]

Thanks Joe also from me. I didn't want to butt in on Roy's post, but you have opened this scripture up
to me also, relevant to today's world. I wondered about this curse also.
Bluzman

[Judess]

Thank you all for your explanations! I am starting to understand a bit more. I guess I made that mistake of thinking that satan did something 'wrong' to screw up God's plan and therefore was cursed. Carnal mind indeed!

It was all in God's control. It was not so much 'punishment' for satan but God's purpose for satan.



Thank you to everyone and especially to Daywalker for making me feel so welcomed!

[larissa4676]

Because man is dust, that would make man lower then "satan" and upon his belly (satan), he crawls over the face of the earth eating dust. Has anyone ever seen a serpent that crawls under the dust? This might go along with what Daywalker pointed out: Luke 10:19 Lo! I have given you authority to be treading upon serpents and scorpions and over the entire power of the enemy, and nothing shall be injuring you under any circumstances" because Jesus gives us authority, we are no longer under the 'power' of the serpent, but able to trample him. This brings me to another thought. I don't think satan is a literally horned thing. I do however believe that when we are in sin or sinful thinking we have become a satan or opponent to Truth. This might be why Jesus calls Peter, and Judas satan. Several times in scripture the word Greek word 'satan' (which means opponent) is translated to the word adversary. And serpents don't devour (many) people, but MAN devours many men. Man is the only one who thinks he is ABOVE all creation.

Either way, I'm thankful that Jesus was tested by "satan" and overcame. It shows us that it is possible with the authority and character given to us by God through Christ that we too can overcome things in this life.

Praise be to God! Great posts everyone.

Hey Judess, I almost forgot...WELCOME to the forum. I don't post too often but I read allot. I look forward to reading more posts from you.

Larissa

[larissa4676]

Oh! One more thing. I'm also thankful that the adversarial part of man will be purged from mankind.

[Ninny]

Oh! One more thing. I'm also thankful that the adversarial part of man will be purged from mankind.

Yaay!! 
By the way Judess! welcome, glad you're here!

[Judess]

Hi Larissa,

It's so funny that I replied your recent post and spoke about overcoming and then I came back to my topic and saw that you've replied my post with: 'It shows us that it is possible with the authority and character given to us by God through Christ that we too can overcome things in this life.'

Keep telling yourself that!

Another thing. I don't believe that satan is a literal horned creature as well but I think that satan is a real being. Else how would God give satan permission to test Job and at the same time has to tell satan to spare Job's life? Also, all the nations on earth belong to satan and that is why satan could offer them to Jesus in the desert. How could Jesus gain the nations if 'satan' was all in His own mind and how could 'satan' be in His mind if He is free from sin?

That shows that satan is a real spiritual being. I think.

What you mentioned though about satan being just a characteristic as opposed to a real being is quite interesting and I'd be curious to know what the others think.

Lastly, thanks for your warm welcome and I hope you're feeling better!

[Judess]

Thanks Ninny for the welcome! I am still learning as I post!

Really glad to be here. 

[larissa4676]

Judess,

Babylon taught us incorrectly about God, Jesus, His Church, EVERYTHING! So I said to myself, Self! What if what you learned about satan is wrong as well. The story of Job as with all scripture...it is a parable. The same way God allowed Job to be tested of satan is the same way God allowed Jesus to be tested of satan. All nations belong to satan? And who are the nations? The actual literal territories or THE PEOPLE? So ALL NATIONS which is ALL PEOPLE belong to who?

Maybes I'm alone in this...I'm open to correction. If they've lied to us about everything else...why not satan? When a lie enters your thought and exits your mouth...was that satan? He is the father of lies. When Peter rose up against what Jesus said must be and Jesus called him satan...was that satan? Or was Peter being a satan (adversary/opponent)?

Again I ask...Who is made from dust? So who does satan eat? And who eats/kills/murders more MEN and WOMEN and BOYS and GIRLS, animals, literal dust, plants, etc then ANY OTHER CREATURE ON THE PLANET? All the answers are MAN.

I don't have it all figured out. I'm not saying that at all and I certainly don't want to be accused of "teaching" anything. This just something I've considered for some time. I have tons and tons of study notes on the subject, but here is not the proper place for those.

I am feeling better by the way. I good cry out to our Father and he sent the love and support of my BT fam! All is good.
Thank you!

Larissa

[mharrell08]

Judess,

Babylon taught us incorrectly about God, Jesus, His Church, EVERYTHING! So I said to myself, Self! What if what you learned about satan is wrong as well. The story of Job as with all scripture...it is a parable. The same way God allowed Job to be tested of satan is the same way God allowed Jesus to be tested of satan. All nations belong to satan? And who are the nations? The actual literal territories or THE PEOPLE? So ALL NATIONS which is ALL PEOPLE belong to who?

Maybes I'm alone in this...I'm open to correction. If they've lied to us about everything else...why not satan? When a lie enters your thought and exits your mouth...was that satan? He is the father of lies. When Peter rose up against what Jesus said must be and Jesus called him satan...was that satan? Or was Peter being a satan (adversary/opponent)?

Again I ask...Who is made from dust? So who does satan eat? And who eats/kills/murders more MEN and WOMEN and BOYS and GIRLS, animals, literal dust, plants, etc then ANY OTHER CREATURE ON THE PLANET? All the answers are MAN.

I don't have it all figured out. I'm not saying that at all and I certainly don't want to be accused of "teaching" anything. This just something I've considered for some time. I have tons and tons of study notes on the subject, but here is not the proper place for those.

I am feeling better by the way. I good cry out to our Father and he sent the love and support of my BT fam! All is good.
Thank you!

Larissa

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1707.msg14346.html#msg14346):

Dear Azaleen:
I am familiar with the "Santan is your carnal mind" theory. Just two Scriptures might help you understand this cannot be Scripturally true:

[1] Rev. 20:1-3--Is God really going to "bind the carnal mind of all mankind" for a thousand years, and then give it back to them once again?  If no one has a carnal mind (sinful nature) how could they become sinful once again, and only for a short season?

[2] I Cor. 5:5--How can our flesh (sinful nature) destroy our flesh (sinful nature)? This is in contradiction to our Lord's statments concerning "Satan casting out Satan" (Matt. 12:26).

ALL THE SCRIPTURES must agree.

God be with you,
Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7162.msg56867.html#msg56867):

Dear Christopher:  It really doesn't matter one way or the other whether Eve heard the serpent speak, or a voice in her head, or a voice from the fruit itself. The point is, she was tempted to disobey God's commandments, and she did disobey. Now then, let's use our mind for just a minute. If Eve's carnal mind told her to disobey God, then a few verses later we would have God Himself, first talking to Adam, then to Eve, and then to Eve's carnal mind. God would then put a curse on Eve's carnal mind, and tell Eve that her carnal mind would eat dust for the rest of her life. In addition, there would be enmity between Eve's carnal mind and the woman, and the seed of Eve's carnal mind, and Eve's seed, and Eve's seed would bruise the head of Eve's carnal mind, and Eve's seed would bruise HIS(?) heel.
        All of a sudden Eve's carnal mind became a "HE." It just doesn't fit, does it. Better to just accept the Scriptures as they are written until an alternative can be Scripturally proven.
         
        As for overcoming sin, this is something I am asked nearly daily. We all want to be sin free. This is a life long endeavor. Our first giant victory is when sin no longer "REIGNS over us." But from there, sins continually crop us (often unseen and un-noticed).  God gives His Holy Spirit to only those who obey Him, and no one can obey Him until HE grants one repentance. And then we still continue to suffer in our struggle against sin. God intends for us to fight. This life is spiritual warfare. The battle is never over. You need to cry out to God for the desire, then patience to suffer, and finally the power to overcome it. There is no magic formula. There is no magic prayer.  There is no sowing a seed or buying your way out of carnality. We must struggle and fight and overcome and endure until the end.
        God be with you,
        Ray


1. The church teaches that Satan, who's name is supposedly originally Lucifer, was once a perfect angel who rebelled against God along with 1/3 of the angels.

2. The church teaches that Satan, along with everyone else, has 'free will' and is how Satan rebelled against God.

3. The church teaches that Satan will have the victory over God and most of humanity by torturing them, forever & ever, with his demonic minions.

And so on...all LIES. Satan is a spirit who 'influences' and preys upon people and the nations and he himself exists. No one can ever 'be a satan'.

John 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do...

When Jesus says this to the Scribes & Pharisees, His words have a higher, spiritual meaning...as He says: 'My words are spirit' [John 6:63]. He uses the metaphor of a father (Satan) with children (wicked, ungodly) to explain this higher truth.

Children take after their father and fathers influence their children's behavior...in like manner, the Scribes & Pharisees take after Satan ['the lusts of your father ye will do'] as Satan influences them.


I would recommend reading the Lake of Fire, parts 2, 9, & 10 again and compare the scriptures that Ray expounds on regarding Satan to your own studies. Don't be discouraged but let all be done for the glory of God. 


Marques

[larissa4676]

The first passage was 1 Corinthians 5:5, where Paul said about the fornicator, "Deliver this man to Satan". A few verses further on, Paul explained what he meant: "Drive out the wicked person from among you" (verse 13). This also explains 1 Timothy 1:20. Here Paul said he had delivered two sinful Christians to Satan that they might learn not to blaspheme. They, too, had evidently been excommunicated, because in 2 Timothy 2:16-17 Paul advised Timothy to avoid them.

"Jesus, the Son of God ... in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet
without sinning" (Hebrews 4:14,15). And we know that he was tempted in the wilderness. Would the Son of God have been willing to go climbing up temples and mountains in company with the devil? Would he have been likely to throw himself down because a wicked satan said so? And where is there a mountain from which one can see "all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them"? In any case, would a devil have been so stupid as to point to those kingdoms and say, "All these will I give you"? Jesus knew very well that the kingdoms of this world belong to God, and that no fallen angel could have the power to give them away. Three times in one chapter the Old Testament says that God rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He chooses (Daniel 4:17,25,32).

Jesus had just been given the power of the Holy Spirit, power without limit. He knew that he could now do anything. He could imagine himself manufacturing food from the stones, jumping off the top of the temple and landing unharmed, conquering the whole world if he wanted. Just as Adam and Even were given power and dominion in the garden. Of course we know where they went with it. They took the bate and ate the fruit. Since the children, as he calls them, are people of flesh and blood, Jesus himself became like them and shared their human nature. He did so that through his death he might destroy the Devil, who has the power over death Hebrews 2:14 And since The wages of sin (in who?) is death (Romans 6:23). Sin when it is full-grown (in whom does it grow) brings forth death (James 1:15). Without any doubt to me the devil of Hebrews 2:14, the devil that had the power of death, was human sinfulness.

The night before he died he admitted to his Father that his human nature but he was determined to obey his Father, rather than his own human desires. He prayed: Not my will, but thine, be done (Luke 22:42).

Here is another point. Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11). If we look over allot of the cases of "demon possession" in the Bible, we see that these people were dumb, blind, deaf. All of which God says HE does. Not some demon devilly thing. Now for some more evidence to support this point of view. Consider the following account of a miracle: "A man came up to him [Jesus] and kneeling before him said, 'Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and he suffers terribly; for often he falls into the fire, and often into the water. And I brought him to your disciples, and they could not heal him '." (Matthew 17:14-16). Matthew's plain words give us a very clear picture. The boy was ill and needed healing. But then Matthew goes on to say: "And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured instantly" (verse 18). This really is a surprise ending. What started as a simple story of an illness turns out to be a story of demon possession in the finish.

The heart  is deceitful ABOVE ALL THINKGS, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9) Does the ALL THINGS mean really mean ALL? Would that include the devil and his evil deceitful nature?

Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man" (Matthew 15:19,20). Or is it Satan?

What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? Is it not YOUR PASSIONS that are at war in your members? You desire and do not have; so you kill" (James 4:1,2) Not "the devil made me do it" That would be reverting back to the same lie that Eve told in the beginning. The serpent made me do it. The word clearly states it is our OWN lusts that lead us to this tempting which again Eve and Adam failed.

Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted with evil and He Himself tempts no one; but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin" (James 1:13-15). Jesus experienced this as well when he was tempted in the wilderness, which scriptures say that he clearly was.
And  who does Paul blame in Romans? A satan? a devil? —he puts it down to "the lusts of their [men's] hearts" (verse 24). Similarly, in Chapter 2, he tells his readers that their sin comes from "your hard and impenitent heart" (verse 5). Then in Chapter 3 he blames "our wickedness" (verse 5). He makes it clear that we have no excuse for this (verse 19). We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Chapter 5 is the plainest chapter of all. This explains how sin and death came into the world. It was not through a wicked spirit, but:
"Sin came into the world through one man [Adam] and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned" (verse 12).

Ok. I'll leave it at that. Marques, I will go back and study Rays papers again on the subject.

Larissa

[larissa4676]

Gen 3:15  And I will putH7896 enmityH342 betweenH996 thee and the woman,H802 and betweenH996 thy seedH2233 and her seed;H2233 IT(he/she/it/self/same/etc)H1931 shall bruiseH7779 thy head,H7218 and thouH859 shalt bruiseH7779 his heel.H6119

Shouldn't that last part of this be BRUISE HEEL? Not bruise HIS heel?

Also, it would make sense to address the human (as I believe we all have a part of God in us) separate from the sinful nature as I believe Paul does here. What causes wars, and what causes fightings among YOU? Is it not YOUR PASSIONS that are at war in your members? You desire and do not have; so YOU kill" (James 4:1,2) Your PASSIONS is address as well as YOU. In this passage they don't seem to be one and the same. And since Jesus was "tested at all points" wouldn't that mean he would of had to feel these sort of passions as well?

I cannot find another scripture where God curses the serpent like he did in Genesis.

Ok. Thats about all I've got. The cursing Eve and her mind point Ray brings up does make sense, but I see so many scriptures that seem to point out that we are to separate self from selfs passions. Ok. I'm ready for corrections and GENTLE nudges in the right direction.

Thanks everyone.

Larissa

[mharrell08]

Ok. Thats about all I've got. The cursing Eve and her mind point Ray brings up does make sense, but I see so many scriptures that seem to point out that we are to separate self from selfs passions. Ok. I'm ready for corrections and GENTLE nudges in the right direction.

Thanks everyone.

Larissa

Hello Larissa,

Reading your 3 last posts in this thread, the one thing you continue to imply/say is that Satan is not really a spiritual being but actually our carnality. Is that the sum of what you are saying? I mean, I know you use the word 'passions', but that is still based on carnality.

Now, seeing that Jesus was/is/will be sinless [2 Cor 5:21, 1 Pet 2:22], who was Jesus conferring with in the wilderness after His baptism? His own carnality or 'passions'? Was it Jesus' carnality or 'passions' that He himself rebuked?

To be carnal minded is death [Rom 8:6] but Jesus says that He is LIFE [John 14:6]. The premise of Satan not being a spiritual being but actually one's carnality is the same as saying Jesus was/is/will be sin, which is absolutely, positively false.

The scriptures as well as Ray's teaching on them are clear that Satan, who dines on mankind's carnality, is not mankind's carnality himself...Satan dines on himself?

This thread cannot continue in false teaching/speculation for our members sake...if one does not agree with the scriptures and Ray's teaching on the manner, this is not the place to promote it. Hopefully, maturity will have it's part without this thread having to be locked.


Thanks,

Marques

[larissa4676]

I agree Marques. I don't want anyone led astray by the way God has shown me scriptures. Good thing that we'll all be cleansed of our carnal thinking. To that end, thank you for your wisdom and kindness.

Larissa

[tinknocker]

Some verses that state Satin was created by God;

Isaiah 54:16
Look, I have created the craftsman who blows on the charcoal fire and produces a weapon suitable for its task; and I have created the destroyer to work havoc.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Some verses on times God used evil for His purposes;

Joshua 23:15
And it shall come to pass, that as all the good things are come upon you of which Jehovah your God spake unto you, so will Jehovah bring upon you all the evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which Jehovah your God hath given you.

1 Samuel 16:14-16
Now the spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.  15  And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil  spirit from God troubleth thee. 16  Let our lord command your servants here in your presence to look for someone who knows how to play the harp. Whenever the evil spirit from God troubles you, that person can play the harp, and you will feel better."

1 Samuel 16:23
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took the harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil (ra') spirit departed from him.

2 Kings 6:33
And while he was yet talking with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of Jehovah; why should I wait for Jehovah any longer?

Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil  upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

There is most certinely a evil spirit that God created and controls. Call him whatever you like but God calls him the destroyer.

Tom