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Author Topic: His return? Some questions.  (Read 12081 times)

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lilitalienboi16

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His return? Some questions.
« on: June 10, 2006, 05:16:01 PM »

Hey guys, i got a question.

After learning many spiritual truths, and i know im no where near the end, just scratching the Tip of the iceberg here ive become slightly confused.

All my days i was taught Jesus would come a second time.

The more and more i read revalations (Which is what i used to Justify His second coming to earth) the more i realize its completely spiritual and has to do with us, His followers. The more i study the more i realize JESUS IS BACK, except He is back in us. As He is, so are we in the world.

So my question is, Is Jesus gonna come back to this fleshy world?

That would bring me to my next question.

I was always taught that when Jesus returns to this Fleshy earth that He would sound a physical trumpet and we would arise from the graves, and those that didn't die would be caught up in the heavens with Him, and He would start His reign on earth. Now like i've said this has become less and less the truth for me the more i learn the fruits of the spirit. So if this isn't the case, when exactly do we rise to our inheritence at the end of days, if Jesus isn't really coming back to this fleshy earth at all?

Thanks for any help and answers in advanced,

God bless,

Alex
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orion77

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2006, 05:44:07 PM »

Good question, Alex.

We have been taught so many lies.  Now that the blinders are coming off, we see many beliefs are not true.  So, what about this grand second coming they preach about.

His Spirit is in us now and His kingdom is not of this world.  Kind of has me stumped a little also.  Another question that goes along with this is the Thousand year reign.  Is this symbolic of something other that a literal rule on this earth?

God bless,

Gary
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rvhill

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2006, 06:01:25 PM »

The world will end though. most likely in the next 100 years. I really do not see us going on for another 200 hundred years but we might, if it is God will. Human nature and technological growth demand it.
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eutychus

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2006, 07:40:51 PM »

in a split second, a twinkling, unseen particals become visible, BAM


time and space mean NOTHING.

peace
chuckt
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Daniel

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2006, 08:34:17 PM »

Alex,

You will get a variety of responses, this is one of those things you need to search out. Don't assume that what He teaches you (as he does) in accordance with His words will resound back to you in everyone.

At this point where you are is a good place. Questions come because you doubt in yourself asking, "what do these things mean"? Its the interpretation given by others you heard on these things you are questioning. Thats good let Him show you. He has the ability to "convince" or not to convince you of something. That why its best to trust whats "in you" is either affirming or not affirming. We all have that in us.

Where is the word "reign". Whats a "thousand years" likened to? Whats His definition of rule? Why don't the apostles sound like todays teachers? What are we waiting for? Hoping for? Desiring? What would it "look like" if it appeared? I ask myself these questions all the time. Did the religious in Christs time in the flesh misunderstand by their own wisdom? A scribe is one of those of whom is considered "the wisdom of this world" thats foolishness to Him. THE Teachers of the time (and THAT of the book). Did they know the scriptures? No but they shared from them. What is it to know the scriptures and the "power of God"? Whats the difference? Is there one? See? These are honest and respectable questions.

Who else can reveal the Father but The Son? Thats our hope, to "know Him". We need a direction, our hearts into His love. He is so able to teach us. Be confident in "that".

I like what Jesus says here, always blessed me.

Mark 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.[/u]

This one always got me to bend my ear and listen to how something was worded and what He was trying to say. Praying all the while He help me asking for His holy Spirit to guide me always in His ways.

I'll pray for your understanding. At this point it might appear as "guess work" and differences of opinion sometimes breed other things. Familiarize yourself with these things and write down (or remember)  the first question that arises in you when you cant connect the dots. Thats good. When it starts to look like a grocery list of weird time tables, God help you :lol: Nah trust Him always

Peace

Daniel
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gmik

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2006, 11:11:07 PM »

Chuckt   I just love all your posts!!
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orion77

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2006, 03:10:31 AM »

I hope someone can answer this question with spiritual truths from the scriptures.  I am not 100% sure, but the second coming has already occurred with the baptism of His Spirit.  

We were baptized unto His death and baptized unto His life.  Born of water and the Spirit.  Begotten by God, born and maturing into His sonship.  I am just not sure what the "thousand years" mean, except that a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, so the thousand years is the Day of the Lord, when we are brought out of the darkness and into the light.  The Day is now for us, the thousand years is now.  Not quite sure, this has been a question that needs surety, if you know what I mean.

God bless,

Gary
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lilitalienboi16

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2006, 03:47:13 AM »

Thank you all for the great responces, unfortunately im still stumped lol.

If the 1000 year reign is not a time when we reign WITH christ but is in our lifetime, i know for sure then that 1000 years is not literaly speaking of 1000 yeras cuz i know i can only live like 100 max years lol.

So thats got me stumped,

And if Christ isn't actualy returning to this world because i seem to understand it as He is in me and He has returned, then when exactly are the dead aroused from there graves and resurected to knew life with Christ ? (As in the sounding of the trumpets, i know for us that we have been raised from death into life, but i mean for the others who don't see this, as in non-believers and believers that aren't apart of the "few chosen.")

Boy i got like 70 years ahead of me, but waiting that long to learn so much truths is darn hard.. i know im young still but i just want to know it all right now ><

I guess i need ot be taught some patience.. perhaps this is what this is all about. :/
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rocky

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2006, 10:17:47 AM »

Quote from: lilitalienboi16
Thank you all for the great responces, unfortunately im still stumped lol.

If the 1000 year reign is not a time when we reign WITH christ but is in our lifetime, i know for sure then that 1000 years is not literaly speaking of 1000 yeras cuz i know i can only live like 100 max years lol.

So thats got me stumped,

And if Christ isn't actualy returning to this world because i seem to understand it as He is in me and He has returned, then when exactly are the dead aroused from there graves and resurected to knew life with Christ ? (As in the sounding of the trumpets, i know for us that we have been raised from death into life, but i mean for the others who don't see this, as in non-believers and believers that aren't apart of the "few chosen.")

Boy i got like 70 years ahead of me, but waiting that long to learn so much truths is darn hard.. i know im young still but i just want to know it all right now ><

I guess i need ot be taught some patience.. perhaps this is what this is all about. :/


I have gone through these questions in my head over and over, and still don't get it.  Just because one person says it is this way, claim it as truth, doesn't mean it is.  For me, I have to keep going back to what matters.  God is love.  Love never fails.  We can know Him now, and life eternal is ours now.  

 
 1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.  


 1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.  

 


 1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
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longhorn

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2006, 11:49:50 AM »

This person is MORE confused after reading these responses.  If you don't have an answer, why not remain silent.
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johann

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2006, 12:14:32 PM »

I don't think we can spritualize everything we see in the Scriptures because we've suddenly become "allurgic" to literal interpretation.  I'm told in the Word in Acts 1:11, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven"
I for one believe that He will come just like that - as it was told us.

And Alex, my heart goes out to you when you say that you're "struggling every step of the way" because I often feel that way too.
Just something that may help you as it helped me:
I realized one day that we here on earth are bound to time and space.  The moment we die, we are no longer in time and space. In fact, when we die we enter into the eternal "now" even although our bodies (still in time and space) will rot in a grave.  In terms of the eternal now we all die at exactly the same moment - the NOW moment of the eternal now.  That is why Jesus could say "before Abraham was, I am"  That is why in an instant - just like a real sleep - we wake on the other side.  Your question is "when".  Maybe that could help.
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orion77

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2006, 03:18:14 PM »

(Act 1:11)  who also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, who was received up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven.


Checking Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, neither of these mention this in their account.  Is there a second or third witness to the above verse?


(Mar 16:19)  So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken unto them, was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.

(Luk 24:51)  And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he parted from them, and was carried up into heaven.


Mathew and John don't mention Jesus being received up to heaven.  Mark and Luke mention Him being received up to heaven, but no mention of His return.

Personally, He has already returned, because His Spirit is in me.  Just would like to hear of more verses about this subject if anybody knows of any.

God bless,

Gary
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orion77

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2006, 04:17:13 PM »

(2Co 13:5)  Try your own selves, whether ye are in the faith; prove your own selves. Or know ye not as to your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you? unless indeed ye be reprobate.


This verse here, why look for some huge second coming, when He is already in us?


(Col 1:26)  even the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints,

(Col 1:27)  to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Again, why look for His second coming, when He already is in us?


(Rom 8:9)  But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

(Rom 8:10)  And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.


Seems to me as it was during the life of Jesus, the majority of people did not recognize that He was in their midst, it is still the same for the majority today.  The Israelites of the OT did not see Him in their midst.  The same for the people during Jesus ministry and still seems to be the same even now.  

Does anybody see this?  Would like some additional input and help.

God bless,

Gary
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lilitalienboi16

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2006, 04:28:48 PM »

That is my problem, if Jesus isn't actualy physically coming back, which now it seems very apperent that He won't be, then when do the Dead hear the trumpets of GOd and rise from there graves? I always was taught that i was when He returned, see my problem?

Does that mean we just sleep for eternity in our graves then?
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Andy_MI

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2006, 04:43:31 PM »

Quote from: lilitalienboi16
That is my problem, if Jesus isn't actualy physically coming back, which now it seems very apperent that He won't be, then when do the Dead hear the trumpets of GOd and rise from there graves? I always was taught that i was when He returned, see my problem?

Does that mean we just sleep for eternity in our graves then?


Joh 14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming  (G3952) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Greek word for coming as in "the coming of the Lord" is:

G3952
παρουσία
parousia
Thayer Definition:
1) presence
2) the coming, arrival, advent
2a) the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the present participle of G3918
Citing in TDNT: 5:858, 791

Mat 22:31  But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
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Andy_MI

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2006, 05:14:50 PM »

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


1Jo 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, (G5319)we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

G5319
φανερόω
phaneroō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way
1a) make actual and visible, realised
1b) to make known by teaching
1c) to become manifest, be made known
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Origen II

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2006, 05:16:19 PM »

The resurrection is a PHYSICAL THING that happens. I fear of heresy coming into our flock as people continuously try to spiritualize everything. Some people here seem closer and closer to doing that and even destroying the significance of the resurrection.
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Andy_MI

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2006, 05:18:07 PM »

Quote from: Origen II
The resurrection is a PHYSICAL THING that happens. I fear of heresy coming into our flock as people continuously try to spiritualize everything. Some people here seem closer and closer to doing that and even destroying the significance of the resurrection.


Amen to that Origen II
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johann

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2006, 05:31:40 PM »

Origen 11 has expressed my sentiments too.  Why is everyone suddenly so besotted with spritualizing everything in the fear of believing just a little something that might just be meant literally?  What?  Is nothing literal in the Scriptures anymore according to some of you??
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hillsbororiver

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His return? Some questions.
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2006, 05:38:07 PM »

Great post Andy, a few more verses;

Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Clouds = elect (enter "clouds" on the E-sword Bible Search, check the verses, tell me what you think)

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, bu they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Reign over who and when?

Very interested in comments, we can cover a lot of ground in this thread,

Joe
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